Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job

TheOak · 11-04-2022, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Its 2 years not one year. If you are some 70 year old owner and the question is do you want a winning coach now or in 2 years, you probably want one now. If Payton prefers broadcasting that ball is 100% in his corner but if he wants to coach in 2023 or 2024 that ball is in our corner and a $5 billion owner is going to have to fork over the picks if they dont want to watch Nathaniel Hackett or Josh McDaniels or whoever coach for 2 more years, maybe the last 2 years they can still get it up with their trophy wife or whatevs.

Number of years is moot and you are still missing the problem in most scenarios. I’ll make it a simple question so you don’t have to suffer the mental gymnastics of accuracy or relevance.

Why does Sean Payton want to go to a team that just gave their picks to the Saints?

Your scenario was New Orleans getting 2 first round picks. You have lost your mind in these forums over Loomis giving up first round picks and you think Sean Payton is going to agree to go to a team that just gave two years worth of first rounders away.

You your self said we wouldn’t be able to attract talent because we traded away draft picks.

This is a Kobayashi Maru.

Boston Saint · 11-04-2022, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

This is a Kobayashi Maru.

Exactly. Unless Payton and his new team wait until after 2024, which I think is what will happen.

BakoSaint · 11-04-2022, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Number of years is moot and you are still missing the problem in most scenarios. I’ll make it a simple question so you don’t have to suffer the mental gymnastics of accuracy or relevance.

Why does Sean Payton want to go to a team that just gave their picks to the Saints?

Your scenario was New Orleans getting 2 first round picks. You have lost your mind in these forums over Loomis giving up first round picks and you think Sean Payton is going to agree to go to a team that just gave two years worth of first rounders away.

You your self said we wouldn’t be able to attract talent because we traded away draft picks.

This is a Kobayashi Maru.

I have never said we must hold out for two first round picks. I hope we get two first round picks and I think it is possible we will, but if we get one first round pick, I will live with it. Maybe even a package of a second rounder and additional picks. What I would not do is pull a CGJ and trade Payton for a late 3rd rounder or whatever ‘because its better than nothing.’ At that point I would call their bluff because two years is a long time to wait. The last team to trade two first rounders for a coach won the super bowl though, so I think that could still happen.

I don’t think Payton would want to go to a rebuilding team that just gave up its only 1st round picks for 2023 and 2024 and has a busted salary cap like us. But I also dont think he would rather wait 2 more years than go to a team that gave up anything. Some teams have extra picks from previous trades. Some teams have a loaded win now roster and could just need a coach. Matt Stafford went to a team that gave up all its picks and didnt care about the future too much because he got a quick ring. Plenty of college coaches go to teams that pay their buyout which means less money to upgrade facilities etc. Gruden went to Tampa and got a ring without picks. Also if Payton waits 2 years he can go to a team with more picks but thats not the only variable that changes. In 2 years that teams QB is 2 years older, maybe gets injured, maybe loses his take for running and loses a dimension of his play, maybe gets a new contract and leaves much less money in the cap for other talent. Is it better to go to San Diego now and deal with less draft picks or to go in 2 years and deal with two key starters being lost in free agency because Hebert got a record deal that cramped the salary cap? Also in 2 years Payton is 2 years older. The older you get the harder it is to spend late nights in the tape room and start from scratch with a new team and offense.

Also I am not sure how much Payton values draft picks. Under his tenure we traded a lot away and also drafted raw long term prospects in what should have been win now years. He might value a team with lots of cap space to add veterans. Remember he was supposedly going to go to Miami who was going to trade draft picks for Brady. That does not sound like a long term build through the draft model. The Dolphins who maybe he liked in terms of owner and GM had lots of cap space and have proceeded to show that much of their style is being willing to unload draft picks for veterans.

AsylumGuido · 11-05-2022, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

A few considerations..

First off, Sean is not looking for a paycheck he is looking for a good fit which narrows the field down considerably. A good fit with the ownership and GM, not the players. He has stated this publicly.

That means the possibilities are already decided in Sean's head.

If you were GM and knowingly on that short list, why would you give anything up next year when he is free the following? Sean is not a player and Loomis cant just trade him away because the offer is right, he can trade the option but Sean can still remain retired and have a say the next year.

I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings but some people need to remember that he is not a player, he is a coach and if I were him and you trade away draft picks to get me, I am not going to you. You just traded away my ability to start building.

Thank you, Oak. I have pointed this exact same conundrum several times. Why would he want to go to any desperate team that has traded away multiple high picks? He'd be better served to continue to collect the $10 million per year with the broadcasting gig and have the pick of the jobs later.

Rugby Saint II · 11-07-2022, 02:51 PM

Just don't anybody to be surprised if he goes to San Diego.

K Major · 11-23-2022, 02:29 PM

Sean Payton update

I still believe it will be the Bolts (Chargers).

stickman · 11-23-2022, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Sean Payton update

I still believe it will be the Bolts (Chargers).

Agreed. And as for the draft picks, they don't have to all be in the next draft. They could be spread out.

And I don't understand people saying teams should just wait. Why? What do you do for a coach in the meantime? Hire a guy you know you are going to fire in two years? And what if you don't get Payton? Too much uncertainty to wait for his contract to be up. You have to make the move.

saintsfan1976 · 11-23-2022, 03:06 PM

AZ or LAC have solid rosters. Poor HCs. But seemingly all the things SP may covet. Good for him.

Now pay us.

K Major · 11-23-2022, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Good for him.

Now pay us.

K Major · 11-23-2022, 03:45 PM

Could Sean Payton yield New Orleans Saints first-round pick in 2023? - YouTube

11-04-2022, 07:12 AM	#41
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job Originally Posted by BakoSaint Its 2 years not one year. If you are some 70 year old owner and the question is do you want a winning coach now or in 2 years, you probably want one now. If Payton prefers broadcasting that ball is 100% in his corner but if he wants to coach in 2023 or 2024 that ball is in our corner and a $5 billion owner is going to have to fork over the picks if they dont want to watch Nathaniel Hackett or Josh McDaniels or whoever coach for 2 more years, maybe the last 2 years they can still get it up with their trophy wife or whatevs. Number of years is moot and you are still missing the problem in most scenarios. I’ll make it a simple question so you don’t have to suffer the mental gymnastics of accuracy or relevance. Why does Sean Payton want to go to a team that just gave their picks to the Saints? Your scenario was New Orleans getting 2 first round picks. You have lost your mind in these forums over Loomis giving up first round picks and you think Sean Payton is going to agree to go to a team that just gave two years worth of first rounders away. You your self said we wouldn’t be able to attract talent because we traded away draft picks. This is a Kobayashi Maru. leilung and Boston Saint like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

11-04-2022, 07:16 AM	#42
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job Originally Posted by TheOak This is a Kobayashi Maru. Exactly. Unless Payton and his new team wait until after 2024, which I think is what will happen.

11-04-2022, 01:05 PM	#43
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,135	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job Originally Posted by TheOak Number of years is moot and you are still missing the problem in most scenarios. I’ll make it a simple question so you don’t have to suffer the mental gymnastics of accuracy or relevance. Why does Sean Payton want to go to a team that just gave their picks to the Saints? Your scenario was New Orleans getting 2 first round picks. You have lost your mind in these forums over Loomis giving up first round picks and you think Sean Payton is going to agree to go to a team that just gave two years worth of first rounders away. You your self said we wouldn’t be able to attract talent because we traded away draft picks. This is a Kobayashi Maru. I have never said we must hold out for two first round picks. I hope we get two first round picks and I think it is possible we will, but if we get one first round pick, I will live with it. Maybe even a package of a second rounder and additional picks. What I would not do is pull a CGJ and trade Payton for a late 3rd rounder or whatever ‘because its better than nothing.’ At that point I would call their bluff because two years is a long time to wait. The last team to trade two first rounders for a coach won the super bowl though, so I think that could still happen. I don’t think Payton would want to go to a rebuilding team that just gave up its only 1st round picks for 2023 and 2024 and has a busted salary cap like us. But I also dont think he would rather wait 2 more years than go to a team that gave up anything. Some teams have extra picks from previous trades. Some teams have a loaded win now roster and could just need a coach. Matt Stafford went to a team that gave up all its picks and didnt care about the future too much because he got a quick ring. Plenty of college coaches go to teams that pay their buyout which means less money to upgrade facilities etc. Gruden went to Tampa and got a ring without picks. Also if Payton waits 2 years he can go to a team with more picks but thats not the only variable that changes. In 2 years that teams QB is 2 years older, maybe gets injured, maybe loses his take for running and loses a dimension of his play, maybe gets a new contract and leaves much less money in the cap for other talent. Is it better to go to San Diego now and deal with less draft picks or to go in 2 years and deal with two key starters being lost in free agency because Hebert got a record deal that cramped the salary cap? Also in 2 years Payton is 2 years older. The older you get the harder it is to spend late nights in the tape room and start from scratch with a new team and offense. Also I am not sure how much Payton values draft picks. Under his tenure we traded a lot away and also drafted raw long term prospects in what should have been win now years. He might value a team with lots of cap space to add veterans. Remember he was supposedly going to go to Miami who was going to trade draft picks for Brady. That does not sound like a long term build through the draft model. The Dolphins who maybe he liked in terms of owner and GM had lots of cap space and have proceeded to show that much of their style is being willing to unload draft picks for veterans.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,135	Last edited by BakoSaint; 11-04-2022 at 01:26 PM..

11-05-2022, 05:29 PM	#44
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job Originally Posted by TheOak A few considerations.. First off, Sean is not looking for a paycheck he is looking for a good fit which narrows the field down considerably. A good fit with the ownership and GM, not the players. He has stated this publicly. That means the possibilities are already decided in Sean's head. If you were GM and knowingly on that short list, why would you give anything up next year when he is free the following? Sean is not a player and Loomis cant just trade him away because the offer is right, he can trade the option but Sean can still remain retired and have a say the next year. I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings but some people need to remember that he is not a player, he is a coach and if I were him and you trade away draft picks to get me, I am not going to you. You just traded away my ability to start building. Thank you, Oak. I have pointed this exact same conundrum several times. Why would he want to go to any desperate team that has traded away multiple high picks? He'd be better served to continue to collect the $10 million per year with the broadcasting gig and have the pick of the jobs later.

11-07-2022, 02:51 PM	#45
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,052	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job Just don't anybody to be surprised if he goes to San Diego.

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11-23-2022, 02:29 PM	#46
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job Sean Payton update I still believe it will be the Bolts (Chargers). Rueben Mayes and stickman like this.

11-23-2022, 02:54 PM	#47
stickman 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Gonzales, LA Posts: 1,680	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job Originally Posted by K Major Sean Payton update I still believe it will be the Bolts (Chargers). Agreed. And as for the draft picks, they don't have to all be in the next draft. They could be spread out. And I don't understand people saying teams should just wait. Why? What do you do for a coach in the meantime? Hire a guy you know you are going to fire in two years? And what if you don't get Payton? Too much uncertainty to wait for his contract to be up. You have to make the move. iceshack149 and K Major like this.

11-23-2022, 03:06 PM	#48
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,832 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job AZ or LAC have solid rosters. Poor HCs. But seemingly all the things SP may covet. Good for him. Now pay us. SmashMouth, stickman and K Major like this.

11-23-2022, 03:11 PM	#49
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Good for him. Now pay us. leilung, saintsfan1976, SmashMouth and 1 others like this.