Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job

BakoSaint · 11-03-2022, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

You missed the part about Sean Payton having the control. The situation would have to be ideal to pull him out of the money he is making sound studio work now. These owners aren’t concerned about the money for 1 year. Not only would an owner have to ask themselves if they want Payton minus key draft picks now or Payton with those draft picks in a year.

Likewise PAYTON has to decide if he wants to leave the low stress work he’s doing now to go to a team with diminished draft capital or wait a year then go with they have full draft capabilities.

Its 2 years not one year. If you are some 70 year old owner and the question is do you want a winning coach now or in 2 years, you probably want one now. If Payton prefers broadcasting that ball is 100% in his corner but if he wants to coach in 2023 or 2024 that ball is in our corner and a $5 billion owner is going to have to fork over the picks if they dont want to watch Nathaniel Hackett or Josh McDaniels or whoever coach for 2 more years, maybe the last 2 years they can still get it up with their trophy wife or whatevs.

Boston Saint · 11-03-2022, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Its 2 years not one year. If you are some 70 year old owner and the question is do you want a winning coach now or in 2 years, you probably want one now. If Payton prefers broadcasting that ball is 100% in his corner but if he wants to coach in 2023 or 2024 that ball is in our corner and a $5 billion owner is going to have to fork over the picks if they dont want to watch Nathaniel Hackett or Josh McDaniels or whoever coach for 2 more years, maybe the last 2 years they can still get it up with their trophy wife or whatevs.

Yes, I was the one that mentioned 2024 earlier in this thread. I’m aware when it is. My point was meaning waiting an extra year after the upcoming off season. Again, it’s not up to some arbitrary “70 year” old owner as much as it is to Sean Payton. Sean Payton could say it’s not worth going to a team that has limited itself via draft picks (like you always ***** about). Time will tell

BakoSaint · 11-03-2022, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Yes, I was the one that mentioned 2024 earlier in this thread. I’m aware when it is. My point was meaning waiting an extra year after the upcoming off season. Again, it’s not up to some arbitrary “70 year” old owner as much as it is to Sean Payton. Sean Payton could say it’s not worth going to a team that has limited itself via draft picks (like you always ***** about). Time will tell

My understanding is its not an extra year after the upcoming offseason they would have to wait, its an extra two years after the upcoming offseason. My understanding is we control Sean Payton through the 2024 season which actually ends in early 2025 so if teams bide their time and dont trade for him this 2022-2023 offseason they cant sign him free in the following 2023-2024 offseason because we still own his rights for the 2024 season so he only becomes a free agent in about March 2025 which is 2.5 years from now. Thats a long time to wait. If I am wrong let me know. I take ‘through the 2024 season’ to mean he becomes a free agent at the end of that season in March 2025, or at least whenever or 2024 season ends in early 2025.

Boston Saint · 11-03-2022, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

My understanding is its not an extra year after the upcoming offseason they would have to wait, its an extra two years after the upcoming offseason. My understanding is we control Sean Payton through the 2024 season which actually ends in early 2025 so if teams bide their time and dont trade for him this 2022-2023 offseason they cant sign him free in the following 2023-2024 offseason because we still own his rights for the 2024 season so he only becomes a free agent in about March 2025 which is 2.5 years from now. Thats a long time to wait. If I am wrong let me know. I take ‘through the 2024 season’ to mean he becomes a free agent at the end of that season in March 2025, or at least whenever or 2024 season ends in early 2025.

After this (2022) season, Payton is under contract for 2 more seasons. That means there is the 2023 off season (roughly Mid Feb through July 2023) and 2024 off season (Feb thru July 2024) that the Saints have the ability to trade him.

TheOak · 11-04-2022, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Its 2 years not one year. If you are some 70 year old owner and the question is do you want a winning coach now or in 2 years, you probably want one now. If Payton prefers broadcasting that ball is 100% in his corner but if he wants to coach in 2023 or 2024 that ball is in our corner and a $5 billion owner is going to have to fork over the picks if they dont want to watch Nathaniel Hackett or Josh McDaniels or whoever coach for 2 more years, maybe the last 2 years they can still get it up with their trophy wife or whatevs.

Number of years is moot and you are still missing the problem in most scenarios. I’ll make it a simple question so you don’t have to suffer the mental gymnastics of accuracy or relevance.

Why does Sean Payton want to go to a team that just gave their picks to the Saints?

Your scenario was New Orleans getting 2 first round picks. You have lost your mind in these forums over Loomis giving up first round picks and you think Sean Payton is going to agree to go to a team that just gave two years worth of first rounders away.

You your self said we wouldn’t be able to attract talent because we traded away draft picks.

This is a Kobayashi Maru.

Boston Saint · 11-04-2022, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

This is a Kobayashi Maru.

Exactly. Unless Payton and his new team wait until after 2024, which I think is what will happen.

BakoSaint · 11-04-2022, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Number of years is moot and you are still missing the problem in most scenarios. I’ll make it a simple question so you don’t have to suffer the mental gymnastics of accuracy or relevance.

Why does Sean Payton want to go to a team that just gave their picks to the Saints?

Your scenario was New Orleans getting 2 first round picks. You have lost your mind in these forums over Loomis giving up first round picks and you think Sean Payton is going to agree to go to a team that just gave two years worth of first rounders away.

You your self said we wouldn’t be able to attract talent because we traded away draft picks.

This is a Kobayashi Maru.

I have never said we must hold out for two first round picks. I hope we get two first round picks and I think it is possible we will, but if we get one first round pick, I will live with it. Maybe even a package of a second rounder and additional picks. What I would not do is pull a CGJ and trade Payton for a late 3rd rounder or whatever ‘because its better than nothing.’ At that point I would call their bluff because two years is a long time to wait. The last team to trade two first rounders for a coach won the super bowl though, so I think that could still happen.

I don’t think Payton would want to go to a rebuilding team that just gave up its only 1st round picks for 2023 and 2024 and has a busted salary cap like us. But I also dont think he would rather wait 2 more years than go to a team that gave up anything. Some teams have extra picks from previous trades. Some teams have a loaded win now roster and could just need a coach. Matt Stafford went to a team that gave up all its picks and didnt care about the future too much because he got a quick ring. Plenty of college coaches go to teams that pay their buyout which means less money to upgrade facilities etc. Gruden went to Tampa and got a ring without picks. Also if Payton waits 2 years he can go to a team with more picks but thats not the only variable that changes. In 2 years that teams QB is 2 years older, maybe gets injured, maybe loses his take for running and loses a dimension of his play, maybe gets a new contract and leaves much less money in the cap for other talent. Is it better to go to San Diego now and deal with less draft picks or to go in 2 years and deal with two key starters being lost in free agency because Hebert got a record deal that cramped the salary cap? Also in 2 years Payton is 2 years older. The older you get the harder it is to spend late nights in the tape room and start from scratch with a new team and offense.

Also I am not sure how much Payton values draft picks. Under his tenure we traded a lot away and also drafted raw long term prospects in what should have been win now years. He might value a team with lots of cap space to add veterans. Remember he was supposedly going to go to Miami who was going to trade draft picks for Brady. That does not sound like a long term build through the draft model. The Dolphins who maybe he liked in terms of owner and GM had lots of cap space and have proceeded to show that much of their style is being willing to unload draft picks for veterans.

11-03-2022, 05:56 PM	#1
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,408	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job Originally Posted by Boston Saint You missed the part about Sean Payton having the control. The situation would have to be ideal to pull him out of the money he is making sound studio work now. These owners aren’t concerned about the money for 1 year. Not only would an owner have to ask themselves if they want Payton minus key draft picks now or Payton with those draft picks in a year. Likewise PAYTON has to decide if he wants to leave the low stress work he’s doing now to go to a team with diminished draft capital or wait a year then go with they have full draft capabilities. Its 2 years not one year. If you are some 70 year old owner and the question is do you want a winning coach now or in 2 years, you probably want one now. If Payton prefers broadcasting that ball is 100% in his corner but if he wants to coach in 2023 or 2024 that ball is in our corner and a $5 billion owner is going to have to fork over the picks if they dont want to watch Nathaniel Hackett or Josh McDaniels or whoever coach for 2 more years, maybe the last 2 years they can still get it up with their trophy wife or whatevs.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,408

11-03-2022, 06:05 PM	#2
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job Originally Posted by BakoSaint Its 2 years not one year. If you are some 70 year old owner and the question is do you want a winning coach now or in 2 years, you probably want one now. If Payton prefers broadcasting that ball is 100% in his corner but if he wants to coach in 2023 or 2024 that ball is in our corner and a $5 billion owner is going to have to fork over the picks if they dont want to watch Nathaniel Hackett or Josh McDaniels or whoever coach for 2 more years, maybe the last 2 years they can still get it up with their trophy wife or whatevs. Yes, I was the one that mentioned 2024 earlier in this thread. I’m aware when it is. My point was meaning waiting an extra year after the upcoming off season. Again, it’s not up to some arbitrary “70 year” old owner as much as it is to Sean Payton. Sean Payton could say it’s not worth going to a team that has limited itself via draft picks (like you always ***** about). Time will tell

11-03-2022, 06:52 PM	#3
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,408	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job Originally Posted by Boston Saint Yes, I was the one that mentioned 2024 earlier in this thread. I’m aware when it is. My point was meaning waiting an extra year after the upcoming off season. Again, it’s not up to some arbitrary “70 year” old owner as much as it is to Sean Payton. Sean Payton could say it’s not worth going to a team that has limited itself via draft picks (like you always ***** about). Time will tell My understanding is its not an extra year after the upcoming offseason they would have to wait, its an extra two years after the upcoming offseason. My understanding is we control Sean Payton through the 2024 season which actually ends in early 2025 so if teams bide their time and dont trade for him this 2022-2023 offseason they cant sign him free in the following 2023-2024 offseason because we still own his rights for the 2024 season so he only becomes a free agent in about March 2025 which is 2.5 years from now. Thats a long time to wait. If I am wrong let me know. I take ‘through the 2024 season’ to mean he becomes a free agent at the end of that season in March 2025, or at least whenever or 2024 season ends in early 2025.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,408

11-03-2022, 07:14 PM	#4
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job Originally Posted by BakoSaint My understanding is its not an extra year after the upcoming offseason they would have to wait, its an extra two years after the upcoming offseason. My understanding is we control Sean Payton through the 2024 season which actually ends in early 2025 so if teams bide their time and dont trade for him this 2022-2023 offseason they cant sign him free in the following 2023-2024 offseason because we still own his rights for the 2024 season so he only becomes a free agent in about March 2025 which is 2.5 years from now. Thats a long time to wait. If I am wrong let me know. I take ‘through the 2024 season’ to mean he becomes a free agent at the end of that season in March 2025, or at least whenever or 2024 season ends in early 2025. After this (2022) season, Payton is under contract for 2 more seasons. That means there is the 2023 off season (roughly Mid Feb through July 2023) and 2024 off season (Feb thru July 2024) that the Saints have the ability to trade him.

11-04-2022, 06:12 AM	#5
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job Originally Posted by BakoSaint Its 2 years not one year. If you are some 70 year old owner and the question is do you want a winning coach now or in 2 years, you probably want one now. If Payton prefers broadcasting that ball is 100% in his corner but if he wants to coach in 2023 or 2024 that ball is in our corner and a $5 billion owner is going to have to fork over the picks if they dont want to watch Nathaniel Hackett or Josh McDaniels or whoever coach for 2 more years, maybe the last 2 years they can still get it up with their trophy wife or whatevs. Number of years is moot and you are still missing the problem in most scenarios. I’ll make it a simple question so you don’t have to suffer the mental gymnastics of accuracy or relevance. Why does Sean Payton want to go to a team that just gave their picks to the Saints? Your scenario was New Orleans getting 2 first round picks. You have lost your mind in these forums over Loomis giving up first round picks and you think Sean Payton is going to agree to go to a team that just gave two years worth of first rounders away. You your self said we wouldn’t be able to attract talent because we traded away draft picks. This is a Kobayashi Maru. leilung and Boston Saint like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

11-04-2022, 06:16 AM	#6
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job Originally Posted by TheOak This is a Kobayashi Maru. Exactly. Unless Payton and his new team wait until after 2024, which I think is what will happen.

11-04-2022, 12:05 PM	#7
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,408	Re: Denver Will Be Payton’s Next Job Originally Posted by TheOak Number of years is moot and you are still missing the problem in most scenarios. I’ll make it a simple question so you don’t have to suffer the mental gymnastics of accuracy or relevance. Why does Sean Payton want to go to a team that just gave their picks to the Saints? Your scenario was New Orleans getting 2 first round picks. You have lost your mind in these forums over Loomis giving up first round picks and you think Sean Payton is going to agree to go to a team that just gave two years worth of first rounders away. You your self said we wouldn’t be able to attract talent because we traded away draft picks. This is a Kobayashi Maru. I have never said we must hold out for two first round picks. I hope we get two first round picks and I think it is possible we will, but if we get one first round pick, I will live with it. Maybe even a package of a second rounder and additional picks. What I would not do is pull a CGJ and trade Payton for a late 3rd rounder or whatever ‘because its better than nothing.’ At that point I would call their bluff because two years is a long time to wait. The last team to trade two first rounders for a coach won the super bowl though, so I think that could still happen. I don’t think Payton would want to go to a rebuilding team that just gave up its only 1st round picks for 2023 and 2024 and has a busted salary cap like us. But I also dont think he would rather wait 2 more years than go to a team that gave up anything. Some teams have extra picks from previous trades. Some teams have a loaded win now roster and could just need a coach. Matt Stafford went to a team that gave up all its picks and didnt care about the future too much because he got a quick ring. Plenty of college coaches go to teams that pay their buyout which means less money to upgrade facilities etc. Gruden went to Tampa and got a ring without picks. Also if Payton waits 2 years he can go to a team with more picks but thats not the only variable that changes. In 2 years that teams QB is 2 years older, maybe gets injured, maybe loses his take for running and loses a dimension of his play, maybe gets a new contract and leaves much less money in the cap for other talent. Is it better to go to San Diego now and deal with less draft picks or to go in 2 years and deal with two key starters being lost in free agency because Hebert got a record deal that cramped the salary cap? Also in 2 years Payton is 2 years older. The older you get the harder it is to spend late nights in the tape room and start from scratch with a new team and offense. Also I am not sure how much Payton values draft picks. Under his tenure we traded a lot away and also drafted raw long term prospects in what should have been win now years. He might value a team with lots of cap space to add veterans. Remember he was supposedly going to go to Miami who was going to trade draft picks for Brady. That does not sound like a long term build through the draft model. The Dolphins who maybe he liked in terms of owner and GM had lots of cap space and have proceeded to show that much of their style is being willing to unload draft picks for veterans.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,408	Last edited by BakoSaint; 11-04-2022 at 12:26 PM..

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