Franchise QB
 

I hate to be the one to start this thread, but after the season we are watching it’s become evident this is where we are headed. My question to those who may know more than I is if anyone believes We could grab Stroud with our 2nd round pick. I was looking through the teams who may draft a QB next season and it looks like about 6-7, but no assumption that they would do so with there first picks. Any thoughts on this or what other eligible qb would you like to see the saints draft or go after in free agency.

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Stroud is not a possibility. You hope for Hooker being there. It’s more likely we’ll be tanking with Winston since he’s under contract. It’s going to be a rough couple of years.

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Maybe you have to roll with Winston a couple of years but you still have to draft someone if they are a good fit and start getting them ready.

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No one will disagree with that. It’s something that should have been done years ago.

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Hard to believe we were one pick from having Mahomes. Still leaves a sick feeling.

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Those aren’t easy to come by. The Saints have never drafted a franchise QB…outside of Archie Manning that is, but I’m not big on Archie.

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No way the Saints should draft a QB with their 2nd round pick. The FO blew their chance at drafting a QB in 2023 when they traded away their first rounder. When you look at every average or better QB currently in the NFL, only one had been drafted outside the first round in the last 5 years and that’s Jalen Hurts. The NFL game has evolved in the last 5 years by taking a lot of aspects from the college game and as a result you don’t see QBs fly under the radar or fall to later rounds like you did in the past. Drafting a QB outside the first round these days is essentially throwing away a draft pick. We’ll be bad again in 2023 and hopefully the FO doesn’t trade that pick away and that’s when we should look to draft one.

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We shouldn’t draft a quarterback in the second just to draft one. If the right guy is there that we really like, we shouldn’t pass up the opportunity. After the top 4 in this upcoming draft class, we’re better off waiting for the ‘24 class.

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I think they’ll bring in Jimmy G. Seems like the Saints thing to do.

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Saints are probably going to be bad in 2023.

I’d probably look for a QB in the 2024 draft.

Really like the idea of Minshew or Huntley next season.

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Yep but just because we may nuke the salary cap to sign Jimmy G (his injury history is a characteristic we covet) doesn’t mean we won’t nuke future drafts to get back into the first round. Perhaps we will trade our 2024 1st round pick, our 2022 and 2025 2nd round picks, and several mid round picks to get back in the first round to select a raw right tackle prospect from a small school coming off a torn acl.

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They usually play better when our expectations are low lol

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Question is who is that guy that is eligible next year. I really like stroud, except for the pedigree of being another failed Ohio st QB in the nfl. Has size and athleticism. Hooker not bad, but seems about as athletic as JW. Of course if you wait and see bad again next year you could take a shot at Caleb Williams in 2024. Just talking of course. I’m by no means an expert

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Since we won't be getting a Franchise QB in time for next week...might as well put Winston in as the starter...maybe?

Taysom?

Daltoon ain't the answer...switch'em up and hope for some kind of spark of magic.

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How about we figure out WTF is causing ALL the injuries to our players. Since Brees left, the O-line is non-stop beat up, WR's are beat up, missing lots of parts. Strength and Conditioning? I can handle a few low win seasons without a franchise QB, but unlike last season, this team is decimated, and we suck. I'd rather start at the root of the problem first - who is over conditioning these dudes? Can the problem be fixed?

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I'm going to sound too optimistic here but QB may not be as dire as we think, Halo you bring up a great point. Instead of blowing up the roster, start replacing guys like Peat and reinvest in the trenches. You know, where the game is won... We saw positive results when the line was healthy. And if you give a QB 4 seconds, EVERYONE is open.

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I think the strength and conditioning has been addressed and looked at many times in the past. This may be a long shot at best, but maybe now look at the playing surfaces for both practice and home games. Even if the injuries are not directly happening on these fields, could they be contributing to the injury problems that the Saints can't seem to shake?

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If the Saints were the only team experiencing these waves of injuries I might agree it may be a localized issue. But the fact is that team are losing key players throughout the league. The Rams, Cardinals, and Packers in the NFC all have similar problems. There's really only three teams that have avoided the injuries bug in the conference to a large degree and that is Philly (8-0), Minnesota (8-1), and the Giants (7-2). Only two of the other 13 teams in the conference have a winning record currently.

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This could absolutely be part of the issue.

NFL players want changes to turf in Superdome, 5 other stadiums

The NFLPA says the turf used in those stadiums results in “statistically higher in-game injury rates” involving non-contact and lower-extremity injuries.

Author: Associated Press
Published: 7:55 AM CST November 13, 2022
Updated: 7:55 AM CST November 13, 2022

NEW YORK — The NFL Players Association is calling on six venues to change their current playing surfaces, saying the turf in those stadiums results in “statistically higher in-game injury rates” involving non-contact and lower-extremity injuries.

NFLPA President JC Tretter said Saturday the league should ban “slit film” playing surfaces that are used in Cincinnati, Detroit, Indianapolis, Minnesota, New Orleans and New York (Jets and Giants). Tretter posted his statement on the NFLPA website.

__________________________________________________

However, two of those six fields host teams that have the top two records in the NFC. It could simply be dumb luck.

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I wouldn't be at all surprised if Loomis trades a bunch of picks and maybe a player to get back into the 1st round. Also wouldn't be surprised if they missed on the pick.There are some good QBs coming out next year, but none scream "FRANCHISE" at me.

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On the topic of QB ...

Does Dalton start vs the Rams? If JW is healthy, does he get the nod? I'd at least like to see what he can do as we enter the second half of the season.

At least audition for another team in 2023.

Try something different. We need a spark.

I left out Taysom because, for whatever reason, Allen/Carmichael refuses to allow a playmaker to get into a rhythm on offense.

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At this stage, how could Taysom be any worse than what gets put out there every single week?

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Taysom is extremely injury prone. He had 4 seasons end with injury in college and had a bad concussion and a lisfranc injury last year. We have 3 injured olinemen and our backups are mostly minimum salary undrafted practice squad types. I think Taysom could be worse in that he could get injured and guarantee more of his high salary. I also think his playing style more allows us to evaluate Taysom, who I don't think is the answer long term due to age, injury, and playing style that promotes injury, and less allows us to evaluate other offensive weapons because its hard to tell whether a certain receiver, TE, or RB being unproductive is Taysoms fault with his limited QB skills or the other players fault. I would be ok drafting a QB like Taysom and hoping to end up with the next Hurts, Jackson, or Wilson, but that QB would not be in his 30's and when he was I would let him go like Seattle did with Wilson and like Baltimore may do with Jackson. I think Taysom is beyond the expiration date for his style of play. Even if he became a better version of Randall Cunningham, his availability would just mirror Cunningham in his 30's.

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And then if Loomis trades up for a QB in the draft, we protect that QB with a rag tag oline with Panning and McCoy coming off injuries, Peat on an NFL roster only due to fear of dead money, Ruiz a work in progress, and basically only one solid starter. And we already are missing our 2023 1st round pick and 2024 2nds round pick so probably trading back into the 2023 1st round costs our 2023 2nd rounder, 2023 1st rounder, and more, so we probably have no other high picks to help with oline and no extra cap money and also no picks to add a good TE or possession WR to give that QB dump off options.

I think it would be smarter, unless the perfect pick is there at our pick in the 2nd round, to wait on finding a QB until the 2024 draft, and to focus in 2023 on cleaning up our salary cap, cutting dead weight, and drafting lots of oline in the middle rounds.

If we get a big package for Payton we could get a QB in 2023 but I still prefer taking a chance on a late 1st to 2nd or later round QB and saving other resources for shoring up the oline vs going all in on a high pick QB and having to trade up and deplete our resources that could protect that QB.

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I have seen some argue that part of the problem is new cleats. They say artificial surfaces are designed not to grab so much and jam players joints up but players keep getting newer cleat designs to get extra traction and so they jam anyway. So these people say its players fault. But I think this is not thinking deep enough. If MLB allowed steroids, and the players knew it was a health risk but also wanted $30 million contracts, would that be fine for MLB to do and shame on the players for taking them? Not to me. Many players have a short window to earn money to provide for their families and so if the rules allow for something that could give them an advantage to secure a big contract they have to do it. MLB doesn't allow steroids. They also don't allow aluminum and carbon or alloy type bats that could be an advantage but would probably cause more injuries from getting hit with the ball. So maybe in addition to looking at playing surfaces the league should look at the other half of the traction equation with those surfaces. They regulate helmets, they regulate the field, maybe the game would also be safer if they regulated the cleats and only allowed the cleats on a given surface and weather condition that were safe on that condition. Many players will feel they have to risk a big injury by wearing cleats that could help them look better on the field to get a big contract but if they were regulated for all players it could level the playing field in a safer way.

Also, I think part of the problem is that the Saints medical staff are on the sort of level that if they were veterinarians you would not really trust them to put down your 15 year old dog in a way that would not cause undue suffering. But hey the pound wouldn't hire them so yeah, have them take a look at MT's leg.

Another factor is that yes, lots of teams have a lot of injuries this year, but many of those teams didn't make it their mission in life to trade away as many mid round picks as humanly possible the last 5 years. So when their starter goes down, some guy steps in who went 4th round in 2020 and is younger than the starter. Sometimes that guy sucks, sometimes he gets hurt too, but sometimes he is great and you forget the injury and win anyway. In our case the guy stepping in usually is some washed journeyman who has been injured since high school and could have gone to Bama and went 1st round if only he was 6 inches taller or didn't tear both ACL's in HS or didn't have an aneurism discovered after his 4th concussion. So when we have injuries it goes from bad to worse. And to make up for the middle round draft picks we trade away, we sign discount veterans on their last legs. So we get more injuries and when injuries happen we have less youth and upside on the second string. Instead we should try to accumulate more middle round picks so sometimes when a starter goes down, there is actually a level of excitement to see what the backup can do.

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I think that will probably happen as well but they've been nailing their draft picks since Ireland came on board. We might get lucky.

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Unfortunately, Tyson is a one-trick pony with an injury history. It's hard to make it look any prettier than that.

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Unfortunately, Taysom Hill is a one-trick pony with an injury history. I like the guy and he is an amazing Swiss Army knife but he is no quarterback and he will never be a quarterback. That is why Sean Payton used him as an all purpose weapon. He can throw some but not somebody you want at QB for a full game or season.

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I can argue the idea of a “franchise” QB is overblown. Outside of Brady no QB has won multiple SBs as starter since Manning rode Denver’s D’s coattails. Rodgers hasn’t done it. Russel looked close. And here Philly is looking on track to win a second with a second rounder when their first one was won with a backup in Foles.

Is Stafford a franchise QB but not Ryan? How about Kirk Cousins or Kyler Murray. Point is with good enough players around him on both sides of the ball guys like Flacco have won a championship and guys like Kapernick have come damn close. Forget about a “Franchise QB”. If a good option is there draft him. If not, take a position of need/best player and sign Gardner Minshew for a couple years. If by some grace of the Lord 2023 turns into a relatively healthy year then you still have Thomas/Olave/Shaheed/Kamara with at least 3 or 4 solid linemen for him to work with. I’d roll that for a season.

Incidentally Minshews first few years stack up very well against Brees’s stat wise. Gardner’s completion percentage, TD percentage and INT percentage were all better than Drew’s.

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We may still have our QB on the roster. I still want to see Winston given more opportunity. That said ...

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Oh there needs to be a sense of urgency alright, to show these coaches the door.

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At the end of the season, if at all. Whether fans want it or not it's simply not the way I ever see Loomis or Gayle Benson doing business. There really isn't a scenario I see with a midseason firing. In fact, I can't see a one and done, either.

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Unfortunately I agree, they won't get rid after 1 year.
I've not really seen anything that makes me think that DA can become a good coach.

No fire, no urgency, seemingly no control over the team because the players keep having to try to motivate each other.

The tackling this year has been a massive issue and that was even the case when the full squad was healthy.

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When was the full squad healthy? LOL

Seriously, I don't think we've played a single game with the preseason projected defensive starters all active.

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I wonder if Caleb Williams might fall.

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I think everything is slowly falling into place for the Saints to be in position to draft Arch Manning in 2026 with the first overall pick.

Loomis is playing 3-D Chess, while we can't even find our Checkers boards.

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That's a lot of losing and a far reach, never know, you might be on to something. Or on something .lol

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I think someone will. Hurts was taken 53 I believe.

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There's likely to be at least one QB taken before our first pick that turns out to be a total bust and there's likely to be a QB taken after our pick that ends up having a decent career. You never know.

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Well, with Hendon Hooker getting hurt for Tennessee he likely will see his draft stock fall. Wouldn’t mind trading back and nabbing him in the late second/early third if he slips and getting an extra pick.