Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA?

K Major · 12-13-2022, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Again, I’m not arguing how good/bad Campbell is. I’m just pointing out that as a DETROIT LIONS fan (forget his interem Miami gig cause that doesn’t mean much to a Lions fan) he was sitting with a record of 4-19. Don't you think there were Lions fans doubting him? I’m guessing you would have too had you been a lions fan.

Don't know nor do I care how the "fans" feel.

Bottom line is that if you don't motivate, elevate, and prepare your men each week for play, you'll continue to take L's and/or eventually lose your job.

Owners want a winning product on Sundays, not excuses Boston. 2022 was a playoff roster (in my mind) & somehow went south quickly. In a terrible division, the Saints are currently the worst. Rewind to games this season .. Bengals, Carolina, Ravens, Steelers, Niners, etc. If you had a competent HC, you win at least 3, or 4 of those "close" ones.

I'm on to the Falcons brother. They tee it up at 12 sharp

Boston Saint · 12-13-2022, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Don't know nor do I care how the "fans" feel.

Bottom line is that if you don't motivate, elevate, and prepare your men each week for play, you'll continue to take L's and/or eventually lose your job.

Owners want a winning product on Sundays, not excuses Boston. 2022 was a playoff roster (in my mind) & somehow went south quickly. In a terrible division, the Saints are currently the worst. Rewind to games this season .. Bengals, Carolina, Ravens, Steelers, Niners, etc. If you had a competent HC, you win at least 3, or 4 of those "close" ones.

I'm on to the Falcons brother. They tee it up at 12 sharp

I don’t disagree with any of this…but the things you say about Allen you would have said about Campbell had he been the Saints coach and had a 4-19 record like he did with the Lions.

AsylumGuido · 12-13-2022, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Again, I’m not arguing how good/bad Campbell is. I’m just pointing out that as a DETROIT LIONS fan (forget his interem Miami gig cause that doesn’t mean much to a Lions fan) he was sitting with a record of 4-19. Don't you think there were Lions fans doubting him? I’m guessing you would have too had you been a lions fan.

You are correct.

From a Lions forum - The Den - this season:

Poll: Should Dan Campbell be fired after loss to Pats?

Comments:

"He won’t be, but keeping Dan Campbell around is on the same level as letting Matt Patricia stay as long as the Lions did. Dan Campbell isn’t an NFL head coach."

"For those voting “No,” I have to know why. What are you seeing?"

"No. He’s got this season for sure. He’s done a terrible job. I’m not debating that"

"We were absolutely unprepared in every element of this game. It’s like we just walked in with our Playbook without scouting with the other team can do. Belichick is the greatest coach the NFL has ever seen and it obviously showed today because he 100% knew how to stop this offense. This team was absolutely embarrassing to watch today and that is 100% on the entirety of the coaching staff"

"I don’t see how you can keep him around. The season is lost, and he hasn’t shown any progress as a coach. I wouldn’t delay the inevitable at this point."

"The unpreparedness is what got me today. They were outcoached in every single aspect."

"Brian Daboll has the same amount of wins in 5 games with Daniel Jones as his QB as Dan Campbell has in 22 games."

"If the lions win less than 5 games, which is a probability, Campbell has to be let go. If the wheels fall off the offense this season is going to be unwatchable. Even worse than last year because we have more talent."

"Get rid of him now. Sheila needs to make a statement. Both she and the fans were sold a bill of goods."

"Just to do it? He’s 4-17-1, looks completely over his head, and his players look like they’re regressing across the board. If you want to salvage any of these young guys, you have to cut ties with Dan sooner rather than later, IMO."

And it goes on and on. Sound familiar?

AsylumGuido · 12-13-2022, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Don't know nor do I care how the "fans" feel.

Bottom line is that if you don't motivate, elevate, and prepare your men each week for play, you'll continue to take L's and/or eventually lose your job.

Owners want a winning product on Sundays, not excuses Boston. 2022 was a playoff roster (in my mind) & somehow went south quickly. In a terrible division, the Saints are currently the worst. Rewind to games this season .. Bengals, Carolina, Ravens, Steelers, Niners, etc. If you had a competent HC, you win at least 3, or 4 of those "close" ones.

I'm on to the Falcons brother. They tee it up at 12 sharp

The roster pre-injury was a playoff roster in my mind as well. After being decimated, not so much. Although, if you had Michael Thomas, Marshon Lattimore, and the missing 3/5th's of the starting offensive line you win at least 3, or 4 of those close ones.

And we'll be there in section 229 pulling for that Falcons beat down.

Rugby Saint II · 12-13-2022, 01:18 PM

Ripping off five wins is good for Dan Quinn. However, I think Four wins is the most that Dennis Allen ever had in one season. As was mentioned earlier, he is in his third year has head coach and is performing just as poorly now as he did his first year.

Like Boston said, there have been numerous devastating injuries to multiple starters and we are playing with a backup quarterback, so it is a little difficult to expect much from a coach in that situation.

However, Sean Payton did a fabulous job with the same circumstances while being relocated for the hurricane last season and came out with a winning record. If Dennis Allen is given another year I'll be able to understand the reasoning behind that move. However I would be quite happy if he found employment elsewhere next year.

iceshack149 · 12-13-2022, 02:10 PM

This is a tough discussion because of what we as fans are not able to witness. It would appear that Allen isn't the guy for the job and that players (hello Kamara) have given up on him but we aren't privy to what happens during practices, in meeting rooms, and conversations on the sidelines during game days. We have a very limited view. Sean Payton had multiple seasons of 7-9 outcomes but was given grace because he brought a championship to New Orleans. This is a "What have you done for me?" business so Allen gets a short leash.

For what it's worth, I was all for bringing in Allen because he was head coach for one game when Payton was out with a virus that he was vaccinated for and whipped the Bucs 9-0. I figured that continuity and previous HC experience would make him the best option in New Orleans. I might've been wrong but I just don't know to be honest.
I think I know but I don't know. And I never will.

dizzle88 · 12-13-2022, 03:16 PM

When DA was appointed, I watched the press conference and was convinced we'd made the right move. He just sounded like a motivated guy that would demand the best, especially following on from Payton and being on that staff.

Then he made it apparent that WR position needed to be upgraded, I was thrilled because that was one of my biggest annoyances about Payton.

However Allen, then let way too much defensive talent walk for nothing or next to nothing.

All of the guys that got interceptions for this D, are still getting interceptions, just for other teams.

We have what 3 or 4 interceptions on the season from the entire squad? Players Allen let walk have more than that.

That, is why the cap is so important. Had the FO not backed this team into a corner money-wise, we would have been able to keep the guys that deserved to get paid. But instead, we are left with guys in the secondary that are afraid to hit and can't generate turnovers.

Brees and Payton hid a lot of this teams deficiencies for years, which meant the cap situation didn't look as bad, because we were still competitive.
Now we are not, now we need cap space and they need to blank slate this team to achieve it, in my opinion.

AsylumGuido · 12-13-2022, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

When DA was appointed, I watched the press conference and was convinced we'd made the right move. He just sounded like a motivated guy that would demand the best, especially following on from Payton and being on that staff.

Then he made it apparent that WR position needed to be upgraded, I was thrilled because that was one of my biggest annoyances about Payton.

However Allen, then let way too much defensive talent walk for nothing or next to nothing.

All of the guys that got interceptions for this D, are still getting interceptions, just for other teams.

We have what 3 or 4 interceptions on the season from the entire squad? Players Allen let walk have more than that.

That, is why the cap is so important. Had the FO not backed this team into a corner money-wise, we would have been able to keep the guys that deserved to get paid. But instead, we are left with guys in the secondary that are afraid to hit and can't generate turnovers.

Brees and Payton hid a lot of this teams deficiencies for years, which meant the cap situation didn't look as bad, because we were still competitive.
Now we are not, now we need cap space and they need to blank slate this team to achieve it, in my opinion.

You are making the assumption, diz, that Allen was/is making the personnel decisions. I don't believe that's the case. Sean Payton earned that right after years of success. I believe that all personnel moves post Payton have come exclusively through the front office and continue to come from that source.

dizzle88 · 12-13-2022, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

You are making the assumption, diz, that Allen was/is making the personnel decisions. I don't believe that's the case. Sean Payton earned that right after years of success. I believe that all personnel moves post Payton have come exclusively through the front office and continue to come from that source.

It's fine you don't believe that's the case, that's your assumption.

And regardless, the point still stands. The team needs cap space to keep the players that made this team competitive. Because this type of season happens when they don't. Allen is not a good enough coach to hide the teams deficiencies like Payton did.

AsylumGuido · 12-13-2022, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

It's fine you don't believe that's the case, that's your assumption.

Given the fact that it is extremely rare for any head coach to be the personnel man, as well, I feel fairly confident my assumption is accurate in the case of a new head coach with zero experience in that decision making process. Besides Payton and Belichick, Mike Holmgren is possibly the only other that may make those decisions. Believe what you wish, however.

12-13-2022, 12:08 PM	#61
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,053 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by Boston Saint Again, I’m not arguing how good/bad Campbell is. I’m just pointing out that as a DETROIT LIONS fan (forget his interem Miami gig cause that doesn’t mean much to a Lions fan) he was sitting with a record of 4-19. Don't you think there were Lions fans doubting him? I’m guessing you would have too had you been a lions fan. Don't know nor do I care how the "fans" feel. Bottom line is that if you don't motivate, elevate, and prepare your men each week for play, you'll continue to take L's and/or eventually lose your job. Owners want a winning product on Sundays, not excuses Boston. 2022 was a playoff roster (in my mind) & somehow went south quickly. In a terrible division, the Saints are currently the worst. Rewind to games this season .. Bengals, Carolina, Ravens, Steelers, Niners, etc. If you had a competent HC, you win at least 3, or 4 of those "close" ones. I'm on to the Falcons brother. They tee it up at 12 sharp Sinner and Boston Saint like this.
	“Winning is a habit, but losing is too.” Russell Wilson

12-13-2022, 12:13 PM	#62
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,874	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by K Major Don't know nor do I care how the "fans" feel. Bottom line is that if you don't motivate, elevate, and prepare your men each week for play, you'll continue to take L's and/or eventually lose your job. Owners want a winning product on Sundays, not excuses Boston. 2022 was a playoff roster (in my mind) & somehow went south quickly. In a terrible division, the Saints are currently the worst. Rewind to games this season .. Bengals, Carolina, Ravens, Steelers, Niners, etc. If you had a competent HC, you win at least 3, or 4 of those "close" ones. I'm on to the Falcons brother. They tee it up at 12 sharp I don’t disagree with any of this…but the things you say about Allen you would have said about Campbell had he been the Saints coach and had a 4-19 record like he did with the Lions.

12-13-2022, 12:16 PM	#63
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by Boston Saint Again, I’m not arguing how good/bad Campbell is. I’m just pointing out that as a DETROIT LIONS fan (forget his interem Miami gig cause that doesn’t mean much to a Lions fan) he was sitting with a record of 4-19. Don't you think there were Lions fans doubting him? I’m guessing you would have too had you been a lions fan. You are correct. From a Lions forum - The Den - this season: Poll: Should Dan Campbell be fired after loss to Pats? Comments: "He won’t be, but keeping Dan Campbell around is on the same level as letting Matt Patricia stay as long as the Lions did. Dan Campbell isn’t an NFL head coach." "For those voting “No,” I have to know why. What are you seeing?" "No. He’s got this season for sure. He’s done a terrible job. I’m not debating that" "We were absolutely unprepared in every element of this game. It’s like we just walked in with our Playbook without scouting with the other team can do. Belichick is the greatest coach the NFL has ever seen and it obviously showed today because he 100% knew how to stop this offense. This team was absolutely embarrassing to watch today and that is 100% on the entirety of the coaching staff" "I don’t see how you can keep him around. The season is lost, and he hasn’t shown any progress as a coach. I wouldn’t delay the inevitable at this point." "The unpreparedness is what got me today. They were outcoached in every single aspect." "Brian Daboll has the same amount of wins in 5 games with Daniel Jones as his QB as Dan Campbell has in 22 games." "If the lions win less than 5 games, which is a probability, Campbell has to be let go. If the wheels fall off the offense this season is going to be unwatchable. Even worse than last year because we have more talent." "Get rid of him now. Sheila needs to make a statement. Both she and the fans were sold a bill of goods." "Just to do it? He’s 4-17-1, looks completely over his head, and his players look like they’re regressing across the board. If you want to salvage any of these young guys, you have to cut ties with Dan sooner rather than later, IMO." And it goes on and on. Sound familiar? Boston Saint likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

12-13-2022, 12:26 PM	#64
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by K Major Don't know nor do I care how the "fans" feel. Bottom line is that if you don't motivate, elevate, and prepare your men each week for play, you'll continue to take L's and/or eventually lose your job. Owners want a winning product on Sundays, not excuses Boston. 2022 was a playoff roster (in my mind) & somehow went south quickly. In a terrible division, the Saints are currently the worst. Rewind to games this season .. Bengals, Carolina, Ravens, Steelers, Niners, etc. If you had a competent HC, you win at least 3, or 4 of those "close" ones. I'm on to the Falcons brother. They tee it up at 12 sharp The roster pre-injury was a playoff roster in my mind as well. After being decimated, not so much. Although, if you had Michael Thomas, Marshon Lattimore, and the missing 3/5th's of the starting offensive line you win at least 3, or 4 of those close ones. And we'll be there in section 229 pulling for that Falcons beat down.

12-13-2022, 01:18 PM	#65
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,739	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Ripping off five wins is good for Dan Quinn. However, I think Four wins is the most that Dennis Allen ever had in one season. As was mentioned earlier, he is in his third year has head coach and is performing just as poorly now as he did his first year. Like Boston said, there have been numerous devastating injuries to multiple starters and we are playing with a backup quarterback, so it is a little difficult to expect much from a coach in that situation. However, Sean Payton did a fabulous job with the same circumstances while being relocated for the hurricane last season and came out with a winning record. If Dennis Allen is given another year I'll be able to understand the reasoning behind that move. However I would be quite happy if he found employment elsewhere next year.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

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12-13-2022, 02:10 PM	#66
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,093 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? This is a tough discussion because of what we as fans are not able to witness. It would appear that Allen isn't the guy for the job and that players (hello Kamara) have given up on him but we aren't privy to what happens during practices, in meeting rooms, and conversations on the sidelines during game days. We have a very limited view. Sean Payton had multiple seasons of 7-9 outcomes but was given grace because he brought a championship to New Orleans. This is a "What have you done for me?" business so Allen gets a short leash. For what it's worth, I was all for bringing in Allen because he was head coach for one game when Payton was out with a virus that he was vaccinated for and whipped the Bucs 9-0. I figured that continuity and previous HC experience would make him the best option in New Orleans. I might've been wrong but I just don't know to be honest. I think I know but I don't know. And I never will. AsylumGuido, dizzle88 and Boston Saint like this.
	"...it's good to have friends, no matter where they are."--JOESAM2002

12-13-2022, 03:16 PM	#67
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,838	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? When DA was appointed, I watched the press conference and was convinced we'd made the right move. He just sounded like a motivated guy that would demand the best, especially following on from Payton and being on that staff. Then he made it apparent that WR position needed to be upgraded, I was thrilled because that was one of my biggest annoyances about Payton. However Allen, then let way too much defensive talent walk for nothing or next to nothing. All of the guys that got interceptions for this D, are still getting interceptions, just for other teams. We have what 3 or 4 interceptions on the season from the entire squad? Players Allen let walk have more than that. That, is why the cap is so important. Had the FO not backed this team into a corner money-wise, we would have been able to keep the guys that deserved to get paid. But instead, we are left with guys in the secondary that are afraid to hit and can't generate turnovers. Brees and Payton hid a lot of this teams deficiencies for years, which meant the cap situation didn't look as bad, because we were still competitive. Now we are not, now we need cap space and they need to blank slate this team to achieve it, in my opinion. iceshack149, SmashMouth and Sinner like this.
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

12-13-2022, 03:30 PM	#68
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by dizzle88 When DA was appointed, I watched the press conference and was convinced we'd made the right move. He just sounded like a motivated guy that would demand the best, especially following on from Payton and being on that staff. Then he made it apparent that WR position needed to be upgraded, I was thrilled because that was one of my biggest annoyances about Payton. However Allen, then let way too much defensive talent walk for nothing or next to nothing. All of the guys that got interceptions for this D, are still getting interceptions, just for other teams. We have what 3 or 4 interceptions on the season from the entire squad? Players Allen let walk have more than that. That, is why the cap is so important. Had the FO not backed this team into a corner money-wise, we would have been able to keep the guys that deserved to get paid. But instead, we are left with guys in the secondary that are afraid to hit and can't generate turnovers. Brees and Payton hid a lot of this teams deficiencies for years, which meant the cap situation didn't look as bad, because we were still competitive. Now we are not, now we need cap space and they need to blank slate this team to achieve it, in my opinion. You are making the assumption, diz, that Allen was/is making the personnel decisions. I don't believe that's the case. Sean Payton earned that right after years of success. I believe that all personnel moves post Payton have come exclusively through the front office and continue to come from that source.

12-13-2022, 03:35 PM	#69
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,838	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido You are making the assumption, diz, that Allen was/is making the personnel decisions. I don't believe that's the case. Sean Payton earned that right after years of success. I believe that all personnel moves post Payton have come exclusively through the front office and continue to come from that source. It's fine you don't believe that's the case, that's your assumption. And regardless, the point still stands. The team needs cap space to keep the players that made this team competitive. Because this type of season happens when they don't. Allen is not a good enough coach to hide the teams deficiencies like Payton did. Sinner and K Major like this.

12-13-2022, 03:46 PM	#70
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by dizzle88 It's fine you don't believe that's the case, that's your assumption. Given the fact that it is extremely rare for any head coach to be the personnel man, as well, I feel fairly confident my assumption is accurate in the case of a new head coach with zero experience in that decision making process. Besides Payton and Belichick, Mike Holmgren is possibly the only other that may make those decisions. Believe what you wish, however.