Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA?

AsylumGuido · 12-13-2022, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

And regardless, the point still stands. The team needs cap space to keep the players that made this team competitive. Because this type of season happens when they don't. Allen is not a good enough coach to hide the teams deficiencies like Payton did.

I agree that Allen isn't anywhere near as good a coach as was Payton. As for cap space, the team had/has plenty of cap space available to retain those players, but decided to let them go, or in the case of Ceedy Duce, outright got rid of him. Coming into next season the Saints have over $100 million in convertible cap space available for Loomis and Company to hopefully make some good moves after covering the planned deficit.

SmashMouth · 12-13-2022, 11:13 PM

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dizzle88 · 12-14-2022, 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I agree that Allen isn't anywhere near as good a coach as was Payton. As for cap space, the team had/has plenty of cap space available to retain those players, but decided to let them go, or in the case of Ceedy Duce, outright got rid of him. Coming into next season the Saints have over $100 million in convertible cap space available for Loomis and Company to hopefully make some good moves after covering the planned deficit.

So my problem with that is then, who's making these decisions, if not Allen?

For the price we paid Mathieu and Maye, we could have just kept Marcus Williams, because neither of those players are anywhere near Marcus.

The team also let Trey Hendrickson go, and whilst he isn't a physical specimen like Davenport is, he was consistent.

Seeing this team not being able to sack even the most static QB's is painful.

AsylumGuido · 12-14-2022, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

So my problem with that is then, who's making these decisions, if not Allen?

For the price we paid Mathieu and Maye, we could have just kept Marcus Williams, because neither of those players are anywhere near Marcus.

The team also let Trey Hendrickson go, and whilst he isn't a physical specimen like Davenport is, he was consistent.

Seeing this team not being able to sack even the most static QB's is painful.

Those decisions would have to be being made by Loomis, Michael Parenton (Director of Pro Personnel), and Parenton's staff. I suppose Jeff Ireland has some input as far as a player's value as compared to a college prospect.

Marcus Williams signed with the Ravens on a $70 million five year deal, $37 million guaranteed. Mathieu signed for a 3 year, $28 million with $18M guaranteed. Maye was signed for 3 years, $22.5M, $14.5 guaranteed.

I believe you also have to factor in the player's desires. Perhaps the Saints didn't want to commit to five years and Williams wouldn't settle for less than that.

AsylumGuido · 12-14-2022, 08:36 AM

AsylumGuido · 12-14-2022, 08:41 AM

New Orleans Saints

Pros:

Obviously, Payton is no stranger to this franchise. Pretty much everyone in the front office is still in place and would be ecstatic to have Payton back. That mutual familiarity and trust would be a big pro for any coach and franchise.
Similar to the first point, Payton has already coached most of the players on the team and appears to still have a relationship with many of them. After an abysmal season, team morale would likely rebound tremendously and would hold weight for more wins in 2023.
As many Saints fans would tell you, this team still has a ton of talent, both on the veteran and younger ends of the roster. Aside from the quarterback issue, this team is still in contention to win the division next season based on their raw talent alone.

Cons:

This team is quarterback-less and without a first-round pick. Sure, that could change with a trade into the first round or a free agency pick-up, but as of now, Payton would have to return to a team without a quarterback, which is a massive risk.
Payton would probably have to replace Dennis Allen with a different coordinator, as most coaches are not too keen with demotions. The Payton-Allen connection was special and will be tough to replace.
Some of the Saints’ best talent that brought Payton success have unknown futures with the team. Michael Thomas has constant injury concerns, Alvin Kamara has a looming hefty suspension, and Cam Jordan is 33 years old. Though there is hope for the younger talents on the team, it will probably be a very different-looking team in two to three years.

K Major · 12-14-2022, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

https://youtu.be/VmCP5gnf0Do

Check out timestamp starting around 39:30 :

Nick was pretty adamant that if SP was still head coach our QB would have been Teddy B & drafted Kenny Pickett. Interesting ...

IDK, I'm kinda glad we selected Chris Olave (he's the truth) & Penning (jury still out but I like his ceiling potential) though.

Good interview.

saintsfan1976 · 12-14-2022, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Given the fact that it is extremely rare for any head coach to be the personnel man, as well, I feel fairly confident my assumption is accurate in the case of a new head coach with zero experience in that decision making process. Besides Payton and Belichick, Mike Holmgren is possibly the only other that may make those decisions. Believe what you wish, however.

Dennis isn't some "new head coach". He's worked in this organization 16 years so I doubt the front office was going against DA's advice. Especially when it came to defensive personnel.

K Major · 12-14-2022, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Dennis isn't some "new head coach". He's worked in this organization 16 years so I doubt the front office was going against DA's advice.

This is what some either are missing or simply ignore for whatever reason.

AsylumGuido · 12-14-2022, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Dennis isn't some "new head coach". He's worked in this organization 16 years so I doubt the front office was going against DA's advice. Especially when it came to defensive personnel.

Originally Posted by K Major

This is what some either are missing or simply ignore for whatever reason.

Just because Allen wasn't a "new head coach" doesn't mean that Loomis and company would be willing to hand over the same level of autonomy in decision making that Sean Payton earned over his 15 year tenure. I'm not saying he wouldn't have input, but deciding whether or not to give into player contract demands are likely far out of his current level of authority.

12-13-2022, 03:52 PM	#71
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by dizzle88 And regardless, the point still stands. The team needs cap space to keep the players that made this team competitive. Because this type of season happens when they don't. Allen is not a good enough coach to hide the teams deficiencies like Payton did. I agree that Allen isn't anywhere near as good a coach as was Payton. As for cap space, the team had/has plenty of cap space available to retain those players, but decided to let them go, or in the case of Ceedy Duce, outright got rid of him. Coming into next season the Saints have over $100 million in convertible cap space available for Loomis and Company to hopefully make some good moves after covering the planned deficit.

12-14-2022, 03:49 AM	#73
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,118	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I agree that Allen isn't anywhere near as good a coach as was Payton. As for cap space, the team had/has plenty of cap space available to retain those players, but decided to let them go, or in the case of Ceedy Duce, outright got rid of him. Coming into next season the Saints have over $100 million in convertible cap space available for Loomis and Company to hopefully make some good moves after covering the planned deficit. So my problem with that is then, who's making these decisions, if not Allen? For the price we paid Mathieu and Maye, we could have just kept Marcus Williams, because neither of those players are anywhere near Marcus. The team also let Trey Hendrickson go, and whilst he isn't a physical specimen like Davenport is, he was consistent. Seeing this team not being able to sack even the most static QB's is painful. iceshack149, SmashMouth and Sinner like this.

12-14-2022, 08:27 AM	#74
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by dizzle88 So my problem with that is then, who's making these decisions, if not Allen? For the price we paid Mathieu and Maye, we could have just kept Marcus Williams, because neither of those players are anywhere near Marcus. The team also let Trey Hendrickson go, and whilst he isn't a physical specimen like Davenport is, he was consistent. Seeing this team not being able to sack even the most static QB's is painful. Those decisions would have to be being made by Loomis, Michael Parenton (Director of Pro Personnel), and Parenton's staff. I suppose Jeff Ireland has some input as far as a player's value as compared to a college prospect. Marcus Williams signed with the Ravens on a $70 million five year deal, $37 million guaranteed. Mathieu signed for a 3 year, $28 million with $18M guaranteed. Maye was signed for 3 years, $22.5M, $14.5 guaranteed. I believe you also have to factor in the player's desires. Perhaps the Saints didn't want to commit to five years and Williams wouldn't settle for less than that.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

12-14-2022, 08:36 AM	#75
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Twitter

12-14-2022, 08:41 AM	#76
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Twitter New Orleans Saints Pros: Obviously, Payton is no stranger to this franchise. Pretty much everyone in the front office is still in place and would be ecstatic to have Payton back. That mutual familiarity and trust would be a big pro for any coach and franchise. Similar to the first point, Payton has already coached most of the players on the team and appears to still have a relationship with many of them. After an abysmal season, team morale would likely rebound tremendously and would hold weight for more wins in 2023. As many Saints fans would tell you, this team still has a ton of talent, both on the veteran and younger ends of the roster. Aside from the quarterback issue, this team is still in contention to win the division next season based on their raw talent alone. Cons: This team is quarterback-less and without a first-round pick. Sure, that could change with a trade into the first round or a free agency pick-up, but as of now, Payton would have to return to a team without a quarterback, which is a massive risk. Payton would probably have to replace Dennis Allen with a different coordinator, as most coaches are not too keen with demotions. The Payton-Allen connection was special and will be tough to replace. Some of the Saints’ best talent that brought Payton success have unknown futures with the team. Michael Thomas has constant injury concerns, Alvin Kamara has a looming hefty suspension, and Cam Jordan is 33 years old. Though there is hope for the younger talents on the team, it will probably be a very different-looking team in two to three years.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

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12-14-2022, 09:16 AM	#77
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,589 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by SmashMouth https://youtu.be/VmCP5gnf0Do Check out timestamp starting around 39:30 : Nick was pretty adamant that if SP was still head coach our QB would have been Teddy B & drafted Kenny Pickett. Interesting ... IDK, I'm kinda glad we selected Chris Olave (he's the truth) & Penning (jury still out but I like his ceiling potential) though. Good interview.

12-14-2022, 10:15 AM	#78
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,806 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Given the fact that it is extremely rare for any head coach to be the personnel man, as well, I feel fairly confident my assumption is accurate in the case of a new head coach with zero experience in that decision making process. Besides Payton and Belichick, Mike Holmgren is possibly the only other that may make those decisions. Believe what you wish, however. Dennis isn't some "new head coach". He's worked in this organization 16 years so I doubt the front office was going against DA's advice. Especially when it came to defensive personnel. iceshack149 and K Major like this.

12-14-2022, 10:46 AM	#79
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,589 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Dennis isn't some "new head coach". He's worked in this organization 16 years so I doubt the front office was going against DA's advice. This is what some either are missing or simply ignore for whatever reason.

12-14-2022, 11:01 AM	#80
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Dennis isn't some "new head coach". He's worked in this organization 16 years so I doubt the front office was going against DA's advice. Especially when it came to defensive personnel. Originally Posted by K Major This is what some either are missing or simply ignore for whatever reason. Just because Allen wasn't a "new head coach" doesn't mean that Loomis and company would be willing to hand over the same level of autonomy in decision making that Sean Payton *earned* over his 15 year tenure. I'm not saying he wouldn't have input, but deciding whether or not to give into player contract demands are likely far out of his current level of authority.