Saints set to have first losing season since 2016; so, what went wrong?

AsylumGuido · 12-12-2022, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold

Excuses excuses excuses. Your job is to build a winnable coaching team. Roster depth is apart of that. Next man up mentality can't happen if people don't believe the next man....Injuries are apart of the game. Losing players is a part of the game Proper preparation prevents poor performance. Steelers have always been good with having "starters in waiting" Chiefs lost players, Ravens lost players, Titans even started Malik once or twice, San Fran has played 3 different QBs. Everyone situation varies but everyone is impacted by Injuries nonetheless some teams Buccaneers had little to fall off in FA look at them. Excuses Excuses Excuses. Coaching is what failed this team. Decision making is what failed this team. Poor off-season acquisitions failed this team. The standard of Daints football dropped off alot. Players aren't sold and it shows. Is coaching the only issue? Absolutely not. It's definitely the biggest flag imo. If Andy was playing B+ or better football and the Defense was absolutely failing him wouldn't have no issues with him starting. Don't care about no PR or any of that you need QB that's going play mistake with in an offensive system or go out there and win you games. He does neither. Andy gets all the excuses in the world you guys were on Jameis so hard no slack when he was 5-2 , but support Andy from Toy story with his pitiful record. Tom Brady 4qtr comeback against just shows if there is an opportunity who's going to take it? Andy isn't that guy....Justin Fields beat him out of job who I don't believe is better but he's a PLAYMAKER has game changing tendencies. Andy is just there

Reasons, reasons, reasons.

AsylumGuido · 12-12-2022, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Now that hurts.

Seriously though map, in what what am I arrogant? I am the one guy admitting I could be wrong.

Feel relieved you are not on the

level, Boston.

seems to be unstable. But, I might be insulted for being compared to me in other ways if I was you. None that I can think of specifically, but in

mind it must be an insult.

halloween 65 · 12-12-2022, 07:23 PM

Those Eagles are going to get a good draft pick out of us. I would fire Allen now , finish out the season looking at a HC that is competent for next season to target.

Rell&Gold · 12-12-2022, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

And finished with 4 wins once he went down. I’ve not said a single thing that’s not fact.

So what's DA's excuse you're proving my point...keep going

Rell&Gold · 12-12-2022, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Reasons, reasons, reasons.

You believe if this team were fully healthy they would be what? Team was pretty healthy first 3 games of the season, oh wait those were Jameis fault. Ok let's go week 4 and beyond. Show me the game where injuries were the SOLE cause...I'll wait for the answer or the deflection. I'll propose another question show me game we lost where coaching wasn't a factor in it. Playcalling was on Point players just couldn't make plays and some of you guys favorite #TheRefs

Boston Saint · 12-12-2022, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold

So what's DA's excuse you're proving my point...keep going

I’m proving your point that both coaches struggled without Winston starting.

BakoSaint · 12-12-2022, 10:58 PM

When you go $80 million over the cap or whatever going into every season you often can’t afford to reward great play with a respectable offer or take the short term cap hit to cut underperformers. Every move is dictated by cap considerations and players start to feel like just numbers whose achievements dont matter. So the Andrus Peat’s and Michael Thomas’ who fail to perform get restructed with extensions and more guarantees and guys like CGJ, Williams, and Armstead who do perform get shown the door because there is no cap flexibilty to do the right thing. That is why you can’t live on borrowed money, you kind of end up with a socialist system that does not reward success or punish failure. So Mickey Loomis’ cap management system imploding destroyed team morale when players saw the slackers getting rewarded. The loss of CGJ and the continued high salary of Andrus Peat are cancers to this team. CGJ wanted Peat money for 1000x better than Peat play and the coaches would not even talk to him about it so he got thrown away for scraps and every other player saw that and aspired to be like Peat, which is our 2023 team.

Dennis Allen is either a mediocre or poor coach depending on your judgement of circumstances but either way he is a downgrade from Payton.

Sinner · 12-13-2022, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Reasons, reasons, reasons.

"Coaching is what failed this team. Decision making is what failed this team. Poor off-season acquisitions failed this team."

Reasons, reasons, reasons.

AsylumGuido · 12-13-2022, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold

You believe if this team were fully healthy they would be what? Team was pretty healthy first 3 games of the season, oh wait those were Jameis fault. Ok let's go week 4 and beyond. Show me the game where injuries were the SOLE cause...I'll wait for the answer or the deflection. I'll propose another question show me game we lost where coaching wasn't a factor in it. Playcalling was on Point players just couldn't make plays and some of you guys favorite #TheRefs

I believe we'd be several games up in first place in our division. Michael Thomas alone would have made the difference in half of our games that were lost because we couldn't convert on 3rd down. I know we've had a dozen drops in those critical situations. Thomas is automatic on those plays.

The remaining players have failed to execute over and over again on plays that would have resulted in 1st downs and touchdowns. We lost games with Olave and Landry both out, as well. We've been without 3/5th's of our starting offensive line for much of the season. We've been missing our best CB virtually the entire season leading to young or over the hill replacements blowing coverage or committing stupid penalties.

Etcetera, etcetera, ...

AsylumGuido · 12-13-2022, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

When you go $80 million over the cap or whatever going into every season you often can’t afford to reward great play with a respectable offer or take the short term cap hit to cut underperformers. Every move is dictated by cap considerations and players start to feel like just numbers whose achievements dont matter. So the Andrus Peat’s and Michael Thomas’ who fail to perform get restructed with extensions and more guarantees and guys like CGJ, Williams, and Armstead who do perform get shown the door because there is no cap flexibilty to do the right thing. That is why you can’t live on borrowed money, you kind of end up with a socialist system that does not reward success or punish failure. So Mickey Loomis’ cap management system imploding destroyed team morale when players saw the slackers getting rewarded. The loss of CGJ and the continued high salary of Andrus Peat are cancers to this team. CGJ wanted Peat money for 1000x better than Peat play and the coaches would not even talk to him about it so he got thrown away for scraps and every other player saw that and aspired to be like Peat, which is our 2023 team.

Dennis Allen is either a mediocre or poor coach depending on your judgement of circumstances but either way he is a downgrade from Payton.

They aren't going over the cap. They are storing it in easily convertible contract structures. It's there and just as tangible as any other team's caps.

12-12-2022, 06:27 PM	#21
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Saints set to have first losing season since 2016; so, what went wrong? Originally Posted by Rell&Gold Excuses excuses excuses. Your job is to build a winnable coaching team. Roster depth is apart of that. Next man up mentality can't happen if people don't believe the next man....Injuries are apart of the game. Losing players is a part of the game Proper preparation prevents poor performance. Steelers have always been good with having "starters in waiting" Chiefs lost players, Ravens lost players, Titans even started Malik once or twice, San Fran has played 3 different QBs. Everyone situation varies but everyone is impacted by Injuries nonetheless some teams Buccaneers had little to fall off in FA look at them. Excuses Excuses Excuses. Coaching is what failed this team. Decision making is what failed this team. Poor off-season acquisitions failed this team. The standard of Daints football dropped off alot. Players aren't sold and it shows. Is coaching the only issue? Absolutely not. It's definitely the biggest flag imo. If Andy was playing B+ or better football and the Defense was absolutely failing him wouldn't have no issues with him starting. Don't care about no PR or any of that you need QB that's going play mistake with in an offensive system or go out there and win you games. He does neither. Andy gets all the excuses in the world you guys were on Jameis so hard no slack when he was 5-2 , but support Andy from Toy story with his pitiful record. Tom Brady 4qtr comeback against just shows if there is an opportunity who's going to take it? Andy isn't that guy....Justin Fields beat him out of job who I don't believe is better but he's a PLAYMAKER has game changing tendencies. Andy is just there Reasons, reasons, reasons.

12-12-2022, 06:32 PM	#22
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Saints set to have first losing season since 2016; so, what went wrong? Originally Posted by Boston Saint Now that hurts. Seriously though map, in what what am I arrogant? I am the one guy admitting I could be wrong. Feel relieved you are not on the level, Boston. seems to be unstable. But, I might be insulted for being compared to me in other ways if I was you. None that I can think of specifically, but in mind it must be an insult.

12-12-2022, 07:23 PM	#23
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Saints set to have first losing season since 2016; so, what went wrong? Those Eagles are going to get a good draft pick out of us. I would fire Allen now , finish out the season looking at a HC that is competent for next season to target. jnormand, SmashMouth, dizzle88 and 3 others like this.

12-12-2022, 10:16 PM	#24
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,887	Re: Saints set to have first losing season since 2016; so, what went wrong? Originally Posted by Boston Saint And finished with 4 wins once he went down. I’ve not said a single thing that’s not fact. So what's DA's excuse you're proving my point...keep going dizzle88 and Sinner like this.

12-12-2022, 10:22 PM	#25
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,887	Re: Saints set to have first losing season since 2016; so, what went wrong? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Reasons, reasons, reasons. You believe if this team were fully healthy they would be what? Team was pretty healthy first 3 games of the season, oh wait those were Jameis fault. Ok let's go week 4 and beyond. Show me the game where injuries were the SOLE cause...I'll wait for the answer or the deflection. I'll propose another question show me game we lost where coaching wasn't a factor in it. Playcalling was on Point players just couldn't make plays and some of you guys favorite #TheRefs

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12-12-2022, 10:35 PM	#26
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Saints set to have first losing season since 2016; so, what went wrong? Originally Posted by Rell&Gold So what's DA's excuse you're proving my point...keep going I’m proving your point that both coaches struggled without Winston starting.

12-12-2022, 10:58 PM	#27
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,091	Re: Saints set to have first losing season since 2016; so, what went wrong? When you go $80 million over the cap or whatever going into every season you often can’t afford to reward great play with a respectable offer or take the short term cap hit to cut underperformers. Every move is dictated by cap considerations and players start to feel like just numbers whose achievements dont matter. So the Andrus Peat’s and Michael Thomas’ who fail to perform get restructed with extensions and more guarantees and guys like CGJ, Williams, and Armstead who do perform get shown the door because there is no cap flexibilty to do the right thing. That is why you can’t live on borrowed money, you kind of end up with a socialist system that does not reward success or punish failure. So Mickey Loomis’ cap management system imploding destroyed team morale when players saw the slackers getting rewarded. The loss of CGJ and the continued high salary of Andrus Peat are cancers to this team. CGJ wanted Peat money for 1000x better than Peat play and the coaches would not even talk to him about it so he got thrown away for scraps and every other player saw that and aspired to be like Peat, which is our 2023 team. Dennis Allen is either a mediocre or poor coach depending on your judgement of circumstances but either way he is a downgrade from Payton. jnormand, MatthewT, neugey and 1 others like this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,091

12-13-2022, 12:18 AM	#28
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,824	Re: Saints set to have first losing season since 2016; so, what went wrong? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Reasons, reasons, reasons. "Coaching is what failed this team. Decision making is what failed this team. Poor off-season acquisitions failed this team." Reasons, reasons, reasons. dizzle88 and K Major like this.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,824

12-13-2022, 08:30 AM	#29
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Saints set to have first losing season since 2016; so, what went wrong? Originally Posted by Rell&Gold You believe if this team were fully healthy they would be what? Team was pretty healthy first 3 games of the season, oh wait those were Jameis fault. Ok let's go week 4 and beyond. Show me the game where injuries were the SOLE cause...I'll wait for the answer or the deflection. I'll propose another question show me game we lost where coaching wasn't a factor in it. Playcalling was on Point players just couldn't make plays and some of you guys favorite #TheRefs I believe we'd be several games up in first place in our division. Michael Thomas alone would have made the difference in half of our games that were lost because we couldn't convert on 3rd down. I know we've had a dozen drops in those critical situations. Thomas is automatic on those plays. The remaining players have failed to execute over and over again on plays that would have resulted in 1st downs and touchdowns. We lost games with Olave and Landry both out, as well. We've been without 3/5th's of our starting offensive line for much of the season. We've been missing our best CB virtually the entire season leading to young or over the hill replacements blowing coverage or committing stupid penalties. Etcetera, etcetera, ...
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

12-13-2022, 08:33 AM	#30
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Saints set to have first losing season since 2016; so, what went wrong? Originally Posted by BakoSaint When you go $80 million over the cap or whatever going into every season you often can’t afford to reward great play with a respectable offer or take the short term cap hit to cut underperformers. Every move is dictated by cap considerations and players start to feel like just numbers whose achievements dont matter. So the Andrus Peat’s and Michael Thomas’ who fail to perform get restructed with extensions and more guarantees and guys like CGJ, Williams, and Armstead who do perform get shown the door because there is no cap flexibilty to do the right thing. That is why you can’t live on borrowed money, you kind of end up with a socialist system that does not reward success or punish failure. So Mickey Loomis’ cap management system imploding destroyed team morale when players saw the slackers getting rewarded. The loss of CGJ and the continued high salary of Andrus Peat are cancers to this team. CGJ wanted Peat money for 1000x better than Peat play and the coaches would not even talk to him about it so he got thrown away for scraps and every other player saw that and aspired to be like Peat, which is our 2023 team. Dennis Allen is either a mediocre or poor coach depending on your judgement of circumstances but either way he is a downgrade from Payton. They aren't going over the cap. They are storing it in easily convertible contract structures. It's there and just as tangible as any other team's caps.