Kamara or Lattimore Trade

mapcow · 12-14-2022, 11:22 AM

ahh...phuck it.. Lattimore & Kamara (thug) let em both sit the bench and collect. Just like the prima showed them how....

Rugby Saint II · 12-14-2022, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Kamara could make sense at some point. Not Lattimore though.

With the Las Vegas incident looming larger in the court system next year Kamara may not be that attractive for any trade partner. If it is just a late round pick I wouldn't take it.

When and if he is suspended next year and he's still a Saint then we'd better have a Good Power Runner to hold down the fort and then to pair with AK like Ingram used to.

bobdog86 · 12-14-2022, 06:25 PM

Dead money....blah blah blah. Everyone should be made expendable if we are truly in the rebuild mode. Which we should be. If we have to suck for a while then we suck for a while. Half-assing it with unrealistic expectations is no way to go, and is what we are currently doing.

AsylumGuido · 12-14-2022, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by bobdog86

Dead money....blah blah blah. Everyone should be made expendable if we are truly in the rebuild mode. Which we should be. If we have to suck for a while then we suck for a while. Half-assing it with unrealistic expectations is no way to go, and is what we are currently doing.

Why rebuild when our roster is loaded with really good players? Just for the **** of it?

Sinner · 12-14-2022, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Why rebuild when our roster is loaded with really good players? Just for the **** of it?

Just need a Head Coach, and we could begin to bounce back!

BakoSaint · 12-14-2022, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Why rebuild when our roster is loaded with really good players? Just for the **** of it?

Because of the ****ing results and that we are losing key players every offseason (hendrickson, williams, armstead) and because our oline is no good and because we need youth but can onky afford limps and war stories. Also we dont bave a qb, the picks to get one, the coaches to teach one, or the line to protect one.

MatthewT · 12-15-2022, 07:56 AM

As much as many want the Saints to rebuild, it simply cannot be done. Let's assume the projected number of minus 50 mil in salary cap holds true for 2023. What you need to look at now is cap savings for a particular player or group of players. The way the Saints have most of their contracts structured, that cap savings number is going to be a negative or close to an even number. Example if you release a player with a 20 mil negative number, now you are negative 70 mil in the hole. If you release a player with a small gain, like 1 mil, then you are at minus 49 but you are also removing a contract that can be converted from salary to signing bonus, thus taking away a player that can help you gain positive cap space.

A larger scale example, let's pretend the Saints want to rebuild the team, and they are currently 50 million in cap debt. Let's assume Peat, Kamara, Lattimore, Jordan, Mathieu, Hill, Thomas, and Davis are all under contract and these would be the targeted players to release/trade to facilitate a true rebuild. Let's assume their cap savings for 2023 are all at 0 and now they are all removed from the roster. We are still looking at a 50 million cap debt, now where is that cap space going to coming from with no contracts left to convert? (To my knowledge no one on the Saints roster has a large positive cap savings number if released/traded)

The Saints situation, they are probably in a position in 2023 to move on from maybe 1 or 2 big contract guys at the most, likely having to use a post June 1st designation.

I am be no means an expert, just my interpretation of what I found through some research. If anyone wants to research this on their own, a good reference is https://overthecap.com/

AsylumGuido · 12-15-2022, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Because of the ****ing results and that we are losing key players every offseason (hendrickson, williams, armstead) and because our oline is no good and because we need youth but can onky afford limps and war stories. Also we dont bave a qb, the picks to get one, the coaches to teach one, or the line to protect one.

I don't know if you just simply ignore what's going on with other teams across the league, but virtually all of them lose players to free agency every year.

As for QB, you yourself I believe just pointed out the rarity of getting an "elite" QB with a first round pick anyway. We have the picks to get one, I believe we have the coaches to coach them, and once all of our offensive linemen are off IR, we have the offensive line to protect them.

AsylumGuido · 12-15-2022, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

As much as many want the Saints to rebuild, it simply cannot be done. Let's assume the projected number of minus 50 mil in salary cap holds true for 2023. What you need to look at now is cap savings for a particular player or group of players. The way the Saints have most of their contracts structured, that cap savings number is going to be a negative or close to an even number. Example if you release a player with a 20 mil negative number, now you are negative 70 mil in the hole. If you release a player with a small gain, like 1 mil, then you are at minus 49 but you are also removing a contract that can be converted from salary to signing bonus, thus taking away a player that can help you gain positive cap space.

A larger scale example, let's pretend the Saints want to rebuild the team, and they are currently 50 million in cap debt. Let's assume Peat, Kamara, Lattimore, Jordan, Mathieu, Hill, Thomas, and Davis are all under contract and these would be the targeted players to release/trade to facilitate a true rebuild. Let's assume their cap savings for 2023 are all at 0 and now they are all removed from the roster. We are still looking at a 50 million cap debt, now where is that cap space going to coming from with no contracts left to convert? (To my knowledge no one on the Saints roster has a large positive cap savings number if released/traded)

The Saints situation, they are probably in a position in 2023 to move on from maybe 1 or 2 big contract guys at the most, likely having to use a post June 1st designation.

I am be no means an expert, just my interpretation of what I found through some research. If anyone wants to research this on their own, a good reference is https://overthecap.com/

You are correct. Another good source is Saints Spotrac.com

rezburna · 12-15-2022, 01:24 PM

I'd move Kamara before I moved Lattimore. The shelf life of a RB is short and they're plentiful. DB's are needed more and more in today's NFL. We really need Cam Jordan to retire and get some of that money off the books. I'd take the cap hit to move Peat and maybe even MT at this point.

12-14-2022, 11:22 AM	#11
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,753	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade ahh...phuck it.. Lattimore & Kamara (thug) let em both sit the bench and collect. Just like the prima showed them how.... Sinner likes this.
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,753

12-14-2022, 03:11 PM	#12
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,052	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade Originally Posted by SmashMouth Kamara could make sense at some point. Not Lattimore though. With the Las Vegas incident looming larger in the court system next year Kamara may not be that attractive for any trade partner. If it is just a late round pick I wouldn't take it. When and if he is suspended next year and he's still a Saint then we'd better have a Good Power Runner to hold down the fort and then to pair with AK like Ingram used to.

12-14-2022, 06:25 PM	#13
bobdog86 Site Donor Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,406	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade Dead money....blah blah blah. Everyone should be made expendable if we are truly in the rebuild mode. Which we should be. If we have to suck for a while then we suck for a while. Half-assing it with unrealistic expectations is no way to go, and is what we are currently doing.

12-14-2022, 07:03 PM	#14
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade Originally Posted by bobdog86 Dead money....blah blah blah. Everyone should be made expendable if we are truly in the rebuild mode. Which we should be. If we have to suck for a while then we suck for a while. Half-assing it with unrealistic expectations is no way to go, and is what we are currently doing. Why rebuild when our roster is loaded with really good players? Just for the **** of it?

12-14-2022, 08:09 PM	#15
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,875	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Why rebuild when our roster is loaded with really good players? Just for the **** of it? Just need a Head Coach, and we could begin to bounce back!
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,875

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12-14-2022, 09:29 PM	#16
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,135	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Why rebuild when our roster is loaded with really good players? Just for the ** of it? Because of the **ing results and that we are losing key players every offseason (hendrickson, williams, armstead) and because our oline is no good and because we need youth but can onky afford limps and war stories. Also we dont bave a qb, the picks to get one, the coaches to teach one, or the line to protect one.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,135

12-15-2022, 07:56 AM	#17
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade As much as many want the Saints to rebuild, it simply cannot be done. Let's assume the projected number of minus 50 mil in salary cap holds true for 2023. What you need to look at now is cap savings for a particular player or group of players. The way the Saints have most of their contracts structured, that cap savings number is going to be a negative or close to an even number. Example if you release a player with a 20 mil negative number, now you are negative 70 mil in the hole. If you release a player with a small gain, like 1 mil, then you are at minus 49 but you are also removing a contract that can be converted from salary to signing bonus, thus taking away a player that can help you gain positive cap space. A larger scale example, let's pretend the Saints want to rebuild the team, and they are currently 50 million in cap debt. Let's assume Peat, Kamara, Lattimore, Jordan, Mathieu, Hill, Thomas, and Davis are all under contract and these would be the targeted players to release/trade to facilitate a true rebuild. Let's assume their cap savings for 2023 are all at 0 and now they are all removed from the roster. We are still looking at a 50 million cap debt, now where is that cap space going to coming from with no contracts left to convert? (To my knowledge no one on the Saints roster has a large positive cap savings number if released/traded) The Saints situation, they are probably in a position in 2023 to move on from maybe 1 or 2 big contract guys at the most, likely having to use a post June 1st designation. I am be no means an expert, just my interpretation of what I found through some research. If anyone wants to research this on their own, a good reference is https://overthecap.com/ iceshack149 and neugey like this.

12-15-2022, 09:46 AM	#18
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade Originally Posted by BakoSaint Because of the ****ing results and that we are losing key players every offseason (hendrickson, williams, armstead) and because our oline is no good and because we need youth but can onky afford limps and war stories. Also we dont bave a qb, the picks to get one, the coaches to teach one, or the line to protect one. I don't know if you just simply ignore what's going on with other teams across the league, but virtually all of them lose players to free agency every year. As for QB, you yourself I believe just pointed out the rarity of getting an "elite" QB with a first round pick anyway. We have the picks to get one, I believe we have the coaches to coach them, and once all of our offensive linemen are off IR, we have the offensive line to protect them.

12-15-2022, 09:49 AM	#19
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade Originally Posted by MatthewT As much as many want the Saints to rebuild, it simply cannot be done. Let's assume the projected number of minus 50 mil in salary cap holds true for 2023. What you need to look at now is cap savings for a particular player or group of players. The way the Saints have most of their contracts structured, that cap savings number is going to be a negative or close to an even number. Example if you release a player with a 20 mil negative number, now you are negative 70 mil in the hole. If you release a player with a small gain, like 1 mil, then you are at minus 49 but you are also removing a contract that can be converted from salary to signing bonus, thus taking away a player that can help you gain positive cap space. A larger scale example, let's pretend the Saints want to rebuild the team, and they are currently 50 million in cap debt. Let's assume Peat, Kamara, Lattimore, Jordan, Mathieu, Hill, Thomas, and Davis are all under contract and these would be the targeted players to release/trade to facilitate a true rebuild. Let's assume their cap savings for 2023 are all at 0 and now they are all removed from the roster. We are still looking at a 50 million cap debt, now where is that cap space going to coming from with no contracts left to convert? (To my knowledge no one on the Saints roster has a large positive cap savings number if released/traded) The Saints situation, they are probably in a position in 2023 to move on from maybe 1 or 2 big contract guys at the most, likely having to use a post June 1st designation. I am be no means an expert, just my interpretation of what I found through some research. If anyone wants to research this on their own, a good reference is https://overthecap.com/ You are correct. Another good source is Saints Spotrac.com

12-15-2022, 01:24 PM	#20
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,903	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade I'd move Kamara before I moved Lattimore. The shelf life of a RB is short and they're plentiful. DB's are needed more and more in today's NFL. We really need Cam Jordan to retire and get some of that money off the books. I'd take the cap hit to move Peat and maybe even MT at this point. MatthewT, halloween 65 and K Major like this.