Kamara or Lattimore Trade

SmashMouth · 12-17-2022, 09:55 AM

If SP was successful with his QB choices with Romo, Brees, etc, why was he unsuccessful subsequently other than backup QBs? What changed in his evaluations ?

TheOak · 12-17-2022, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

If SP was successful with his QB choices with Romo, Brees, etc, why was he unsuccessful subsequently other than backup QBs? What changed in his evaluations ?

Drew was a chance happening and I’m betting, with his motor, he would have been successful wherever he went.

Romo didn’t start until 2006 (Sean was here). It’s worth noting that Romo went undrafted in spite of Peyton telling him how interested Dallas was. In 2003 he was 3rd on the depth chart, in 2004 he was nearly cut. Meaning that he would have not been Sean’s priority.

I’m going to go way out on a limb here and surmise that even though Sean Payton was a QB coach for a couple of teams and never for more than 2-3 years that he may be able to spot a needle in the haystack but has no talent directly attributed to his mentoring. Add to that a failure to develop a successor to Drew and the sh1t-show he left our QB unit in, we give him credit for being a lot better developer than he actually is.
I like him a lot as a coach but this is undeniable.

Rugby Saint II · 12-17-2022, 01:17 PM

Drew Brees was a number one draft pick who was just a little short and Tony Romo just needed someone to explain the game to him I believe. Maybe Sean Payton is a quarterback Guru. Maybe not. He was inefficient with mid and late round draft picks that had little to no value. Is that his fault?

BakoSaint · 12-17-2022, 09:38 PM

Its also relevent that Winston was 15:3 TD:INT under Payton and Teddy Bildgewater was 5-0 or something. I attribute Hill’s success with Payton mostly to defense and run blocking but still. Basically Payton can take QBs with clear talent who had been hit and miss with other teams like Brees, Winston, and Bridgewater and make them. More consistent and elevate their play. But he also thinks he can elevate absolute nobodies like Semien and Book and all his draft busts and all our 2021 receivers and he cant do that. Payton might be able to fix a Winston or Mayfield or Darnold or Wentz. But he is not fixing Ian Book or whatever, he cant see when there is nothing to salvage. Maybe he will take Trainwreck Smith and Taysom Hill off our hands. Payton needs a strong GM to achieve his full potential but will probably demand full control or a yes man so he can blow resources on dumb projects.

mapcow · 12-18-2022, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

He took a chance. Same thing in the draft. You take a chance. Nobody knows if they'll be successful or not. Odds are they won't.

uhh.... drew had proven himself already. he got hurt, manned up; unlike, another play...err, prima donna... and showed the charger's they phucked up and decided to go with Rivers...

No "Chance" here, ...... rumor starter.

voodooido · 12-18-2022, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

What could be gained is 2024+ cap and draft picks. The Falcons took cap hits for Matt Ryan, Julio Jones, and Deion Jones bc they are committed to rebuild. The Panthers took cap hits for CMC and Baker. We could find a way to take cap hits now for the good of the future if we wanted to. But I think the best moves for the future are cut Peat, cut Winston, trade or cut Thomas, trade or cut Hill. Trading Kamara could make sense with the right value though, pre or
Post June 1. The other key thing is if we keep any of these players, dont restructure them in a way that would make the cap hit worse if we move on in the 2023-24 offseason, which means dont restructure them at all. We need to stop borrowing money in ways that ties are hands. These big cap hit numbera are usually the result of past restructuring schemes. Loomis loomising leads to Peat peating and us paying $15 million a year for it.

Not quite sure we could absorb that type of hit. I say stand pat and find a way to get a qb next year. Maybe MT will play a few games which should help. We get a qb we are a 9-10 win team.

jlouhill · 12-18-2022, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by mapcow

uhh.... drew had proven himself already. he got hurt, manned up; unlike, another play...err, prima donna... and showed the charger's they phucked up and decided to go with Rivers...

No "Chance" here, ...... rumor starter.

Come on mapcow. The “chance” was going with a proven QB who suffered what would have been a career ending injury to a lot of players. The chance in not knowing if he would be successful had nothing to do with his talents but whether he could perform at a high level after the injury. So yes it was a chance and it paid off.

CheramieIII · 12-18-2022, 07:09 PM

Trade Thomas, nuff said! We’ve got a good group of WR’s without him and we could get another good draft pick and maybe trade up to get Young!!’

vpheughan · 12-19-2022, 10:24 AM

SP can judge a QB already in the league but not coming out of college.

Tyler Palko (UNDFA)
Sean Canfield
Garret Grayson
Ian Book (jury's still out on him)

mapcow · 12-19-2022, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

$19.37 million dead cap to trade Kamara after the season.

$43 million dead cap to trade Lattimore after the season.

Not sure what could be gained.

Actual football players that want to play for pay.

12-17-2022, 09:55 AM	#31
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,201 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade If SP was successful with his QB choices with Romo, Brees, etc, why was he unsuccessful subsequently other than backup QBs? What changed in his evaluations ?

12-17-2022, 01:01 PM	#32
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade Originally Posted by SmashMouth If SP was successful with his QB choices with Romo, Brees, etc, why was he unsuccessful subsequently other than backup QBs? What changed in his evaluations ? Drew was a chance happening and I’m betting, with his motor, he would have been successful wherever he went. Romo didn’t start until 2006 (Sean was here). It’s worth noting that Romo went undrafted in spite of Peyton telling him how interested Dallas was. In 2003 he was 3rd on the depth chart, in 2004 he was nearly cut. Meaning that he would have not been Sean’s priority. I’m going to go way out on a limb here and surmise that even though Sean Payton was a QB coach for a couple of teams and never for more than 2-3 years that he may be able to spot a needle in the haystack but has no talent directly attributed to his mentoring. Add to that a failure to develop a successor to Drew and the sh1t-show he left our QB unit in, we give him credit for being a lot better developer than he actually is. I like him a lot as a coach but this is undeniable. SmashMouth and K Major like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

12-17-2022, 01:17 PM	#33
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,073	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade Drew Brees was a number one draft pick who was just a little short and Tony Romo just needed someone to explain the game to him I believe. Maybe Sean Payton is a quarterback Guru. Maybe not. He was inefficient with mid and late round draft picks that had little to no value. Is that his fault?

12-17-2022, 09:38 PM	#34
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,173	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade Its also relevent that Winston was 15:3 TD:INT under Payton and Teddy Bildgewater was 5-0 or something. I attribute Hill’s success with Payton mostly to defense and run blocking but still. Basically Payton can take QBs with clear talent who had been hit and miss with other teams like Brees, Winston, and Bridgewater and make them. More consistent and elevate their play. But he also thinks he can elevate absolute nobodies like Semien and Book and all his draft busts and all our 2021 receivers and he cant do that. Payton might be able to fix a Winston or Mayfield or Darnold or Wentz. But he is not fixing Ian Book or whatever, he cant see when there is nothing to salvage. Maybe he will take Trainwreck Smith and Taysom Hill off our hands. Payton needs a strong GM to achieve his full potential but will probably demand full control or a yes man so he can blow resources on dumb projects.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,173

12-18-2022, 10:27 AM	#35
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,793	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade Originally Posted by AsylumGuido He took a chance. Same thing in the draft. You take a chance. Nobody knows if they'll be successful or not. Odds are they won't. uhh.... drew had proven himself already. he got hurt, manned up; unlike, another play...err, prima donna... and showed the charger's they phucked up and decided to go with Rivers... No "Chance" here, ...... rumor starter.
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,793

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12-18-2022, 04:28 PM	#36
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,770	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade Originally Posted by BakoSaint What could be gained is 2024+ cap and draft picks. The Falcons took cap hits for Matt Ryan, Julio Jones, and Deion Jones bc they are committed to rebuild. The Panthers took cap hits for CMC and Baker. We could find a way to take cap hits now for the good of the future if we wanted to. But I think the best moves for the future are cut Peat, cut Winston, trade or cut Thomas, trade or cut Hill. Trading Kamara could make sense with the right value though, pre or Post June 1. The other key thing is if we keep any of these players, dont restructure them in a way that would make the cap hit worse if we move on in the 2023-24 offseason, which means dont restructure them at all. We need to stop borrowing money in ways that ties are hands. These big cap hit numbera are usually the result of past restructuring schemes. Loomis loomising leads to Peat peating and us paying $15 million a year for it. Not quite sure we could absorb that type of hit. I say stand pat and find a way to get a qb next year. Maybe MT will play a few games which should help. We get a qb we are a 9-10 win team.
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,770

12-18-2022, 06:48 PM	#37
jlouhill 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Denton, Tx. Posts: 692	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade Originally Posted by mapcow uhh.... drew had proven himself already. he got hurt, manned up; unlike, another play...err, prima donna... and showed the charger's they phucked up and decided to go with Rivers... No "Chance" here, ...... rumor starter. Come on mapcow. The “chance” was going with a proven QB who suffered what would have been a career ending injury to a lot of players. The chance in not knowing if he would be successful had nothing to do with his talents but whether he could perform at a high level after the injury. So yes it was a chance and it paid off.

12-18-2022, 07:09 PM	#38
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade Trade Thomas, nuff said! We’ve got a good group of WR’s without him and we could get another good draft pick and maybe trade up to get Young!!’

12-19-2022, 10:24 AM	#39
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,525	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade SP can judge a QB already in the league but not coming out of college. Tyler Palko (UNDFA) Sean Canfield Garret Grayson Ian Book (jury's still out on him)
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,525

12-19-2022, 10:30 AM	#40
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,793	Re: Kamara or Lattimore Trade Originally Posted by AsylumGuido $19.37 million dead cap to trade Kamara after the season. $43 million dead cap to trade Lattimore after the season. Not sure what could be gained. Actual football players that want to play for pay.
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,793