Saints Draft Revisited Over The Years

SmashMouth · 12-26-2022, 07:01 PM

Entire history here

In light of the current turmoil with the Saints, let's begin with SP's first year as Saints HC.
2006 - Out of the park draft
2007 - Forgetable year
2008 - Average at best
2009 - Average - Jenkins did come back
2010 - Better than average - All Woods is still playing for another team
2011 - Above average - Cameron is still doing it
2012 - Forgetable year - Hicks developed too late
2013 - Better than average year
2014 - Average year
2015 - Average year
2016 - Outstanding draft
2017 - Outstanding draft
2018 - Average year
2019 - Better than average year
2020 - Better than average
2021 - Too early to really tell. If you put a gun to my head, I'd say better than average
2022 - Too early to tell also, but it's looking outstanding.

The Saints have shined in UDFA talent over the years. You have to overcome the bad drafts they had. Still, it's doesn't take much to rise to the top given good talent. Bad personnel decisions for whatever reason have cost the Saints dearly. i know... i KNOW... it's not that easy. We're mere armchair fans. But as we are now mired in the midst of the worst year in recent memory, we need all there draft picks we can muster from a SP trade to another team. It'll help us both for an infusion of new talent which we need, and also for cap purposes as we rid ourselves of the dead weight.

Glass is half full, WhoDats !

Here's our Spotrac

It's scary just how much dead weight we carry. Take a looksie at the 2022 and 2023 numbers.

halloween 65 · 12-26-2022, 08:25 PM

Jeff Ireland has finger prints on some of the latter years. Just wish some of those 2 fers would have turned out to be complete game changes. Not a one has been consistant.

BakoSaint · 12-26-2022, 09:11 PM

I think you are inflating grades. Clearly some of our drafts have been below average too. When you dont hit on any big impact players its not a win.

2018 we traded up for Marcus davenport who never put it all together. And we paid a ton to move up for him. Behind him we took trainwreck smith and a bunch of camp cuts. That is a poor below average draft.

2020 our first round pick was a guard/center who stunk it up for 2 years and is now starting to look like he might be a serviceable starter as his contract year approaches. And beyond him we got baun who has seemed to be a bust and trout man who screws up in crunch time and occasionally starts seeming alright and then gets hurt and beat out by an undrafted converted receiver. And we made only 4 picks and the last was a spite pick who we camp cut.

Overall what i see is too few picks because of too much trading up and trading for rental players and not enough trading back and trading away rental players. We need to hit on stars and we are not taking enough shots. We made some great mid round picks meanwhile we under value the draft capital to make such picks and waste too many on gadget qb and te types. Also i think some make tbe mistake of acting like when we trade future picks to move up its worth extra credit but the next year when we dont have those picks they grade on a curve. In reality essentially half of Marcus Davenport was our 2018 1st rounder and half was our 2019 1st rounder and for both drafts thats half of flashes and not much. 5 pro bowlers were drafted in the 6 picks after davenport. Has we not traded up, 5 pro bowlers were taken in the 15 picks after our original first round slot including lamar jackson. Davenport never made a pro bowler. That was a bad draft.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c.../nor/draft.htm

SmashMouth · 12-27-2022, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

I think you are inflating grades. Clearly some of our drafts have been below average too. When you dont hit on any big impact players its not a win.

2018 we traded up for Marcus davenport who never put it all together. And we paid a ton to move up for him. Behind him we took trainwreck smith and a bunch of camp cuts. That is a poor below average draft.

2020 our first round pick was a guard/center who stunk it up for 2 years and is now starting to look like he might be a serviceable starter as his contract year approaches. And beyond him we got baun who has seemed to be a bust and trout man who screws up in crunch time and occasionally starts seeming alright and then gets hurt and beat out by an undrafted converted receiver. And we made only 4 picks and the last was a spite pick who we camp cut.

Overall what i see is too few picks because of too much trading up and trading for rental players and not enough trading back and trading away rental players. We need to hit on stars and we are not taking enough shots. We made some great mid round picks meanwhile we under value the draft capital to make such picks and waste too many on gadget qb and te types. Also i think some make tbe mistake of acting like when we trade future picks to move up its worth extra credit but the next year when we dont have those picks they grade on a curve. In reality essentially half of Marcus Davenport was our 2018 1st rounder and half was our 2019 1st rounder and for both drafts thats half of flashes and not much. 5 pro bowlers were drafted in the 6 picks after davenport. Has we not traded up, 5 pro bowlers were taken in the 15 picks after our original first round slot including lamar jackson. Davenport never made a pro bowler. That was a bad draft.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c.../nor/draft.htm

You're not wrong, BakoSaint.

If we're to analyze the reaches in the first, meaning trading two number ones for a player, historically it''s been a mixed bag and really not worthy of the price tag.

Johnathan Sullivan was a disaster.
Ingram became a player eventually but took too long to develop. I mean, c'mon, he was a Heisman winner. Worthy number 1 but not two number 1s.
Davenport is the same. Good player when healthy, but not worth moving up for.
Turner is looking like a similar move.
Olave looks like the real deal and a worthy move up.

We've had real stinkers before SP in move ups.

We have a decent core of guys, nonetheless. DA's first draft is looking good. We need all the picks we can get from a SP trade to overcome the deficiencies we've set ourselves in, meaning not just players but cap situation as well.

rezburna · 12-27-2022, 09:53 AM

Olave, Penning, and Taylor was a good start for Dennis Allen draft wise. We need interior offensive line help big time moving forward. I'd worry about that more than a QB. The 49ers and Eagles are giving us a pretty good blueprint of what you can accomplish when you give a QB an elite offensive line and excellent weapons.

turbo_dog · 12-28-2022, 08:54 AM

It seems the team leadership often thinks we are "one player away". Then they make a desperate deal to go try to get that player. Sometimes it works (Olave), sometimes it doesn't (Davenport).

But this isn't basketball. No team is one player away. If you consider how good Saints have been at hitting on late round and undrafted players, you will realize more draft picks would give us a better chance to get quality players.

This year's draft is going to sting a bit.

stickman · 12-28-2022, 09:09 AM

Playing devils advocate here (just for fun)...

Does any team have a great draft every year? I can't think of any, but I'm sure one of you guys would know.

Yes, we seem to have been in win now mode for too long, and yes some of those move ups are questionable. But, unless the guy you want falls right to you, which isn't often, ya gotta make moves.

Again, just for fun.

iceshack149 · 12-28-2022, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by stickman

Playing devils advocate here (just for fun)...

Does any team have a great draft every year? I can't think of any, but I'm sure one of you guys would know.

Yes, we seem to have been in win now mode for too long, and yes some of those move ups are questionable. But, unless the guy you want falls right to you, which isn't often, ya gotta make moves.

Again, just for fun.

New England used to be considered that team that got many draft picks right but over the last ten years they seem to have been sub par.

This years draft for the Saints seems to have been solid without Payton's influence. One could argue that's a factor. Signs point to Ireland being a big reason for doing well in drafts for the Saints so maybe the next draft will be a great draft even without a pick in the first round.

K Major · 12-28-2022, 11:13 AM

2014 class ... outside of B Cooks, terrible draft selections.

Baptiste
Fortt
Sunseri
Powell
Rooks

Ryan Pace missed ... a lot.

rezburna · 12-28-2022, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

2014 class ... outside of B Cooks, terrible draft selections.

Baptiste
Fortt
Sunseri
Powell
Rooks

Ryan Pace missed ... a lot.

Yikes.

12-26-2022, 07:01 PM	#1
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 36,977 Blog Entries: 29	Saints Draft Revisited Over The Years Entire history here In light of the current turmoil with the Saints, let's begin with SP's first year as Saints HC. 2006 - Out of the park draft 2007 - Forgetable year 2008 - Average at best 2009 - Average - Jenkins did come back 2010 - Better than average - All Woods is still playing for another team 2011 - Above average - Cameron is still doing it 2012 - Forgetable year - Hicks developed too late 2013 - Better than average year 2014 - Average year 2015 - Average year 2016 - Outstanding draft 2017 - Outstanding draft 2018 - Average year 2019 - Better than average year 2020 - Better than average 2021 - Too early to really tell. If you put a gun to my head, I'd say better than average 2022 - Too early to tell also, but it's looking outstanding. The Saints have shined in UDFA talent over the years. You have to overcome the bad drafts they had. Still, it's doesn't take much to rise to the top given good talent. Bad personnel decisions for whatever reason have cost the Saints dearly. i know... i KNOW... it's not that easy. We're mere armchair fans. But as we are now mired in the midst of the worst year in recent memory, we need all there draft picks we can muster from a SP trade to another team. It'll help us both for an infusion of new talent which we need, and also for cap purposes as we rid ourselves of the dead weight. Glass is half full, WhoDats ! Here's our Spotrac It's scary just how much dead weight we carry. Take a looksie at the 2022 and 2023 numbers. iceshack149 and Rugby Saint II like this.
	Last edited by SmashMouth; 12-26-2022 at 07:16 PM..

12-26-2022, 08:25 PM	#2
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Saints Draft Revisited Over The Years Jeff Ireland has finger prints on some of the latter years. Just wish some of those 2 fers would have turned out to be complete game changes. Not a one has been consistant. SmashMouth and Rugby Saint II like this.

12-26-2022, 09:11 PM	#3
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,748	Re: Saints Draft Revisited Over The Years I think you are inflating grades. Clearly some of our drafts have been below average too. When you dont hit on any big impact players its not a win. 2018 we traded up for Marcus davenport who never put it all together. And we paid a ton to move up for him. Behind him we took trainwreck smith and a bunch of camp cuts. That is a poor below average draft. 2020 our first round pick was a guard/center who stunk it up for 2 years and is now starting to look like he might be a serviceable starter as his contract year approaches. And beyond him we got baun who has seemed to be a bust and trout man who screws up in crunch time and occasionally starts seeming alright and then gets hurt and beat out by an undrafted converted receiver. And we made only 4 picks and the last was a spite pick who we camp cut. Overall what i see is too few picks because of too much trading up and trading for rental players and not enough trading back and trading away rental players. We need to hit on stars and we are not taking enough shots. We made some great mid round picks meanwhile we under value the draft capital to make such picks and waste too many on gadget qb and te types. Also i think some make tbe mistake of acting like when we trade future picks to move up its worth extra credit but the next year when we dont have those picks they grade on a curve. In reality essentially half of Marcus Davenport was our 2018 1st rounder and half was our 2019 1st rounder and for both drafts thats half of flashes and not much. 5 pro bowlers were drafted in the 6 picks after davenport. Has we not traded up, 5 pro bowlers were taken in the 15 picks after our original first round slot including lamar jackson. Davenport never made a pro bowler. That was a bad draft. https://www.pro-football-reference.c.../nor/draft.htm SmashMouth and Rugby Saint II like this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,748

12-27-2022, 08:55 AM	#4
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 36,977 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Saints Draft Revisited Over The Years Originally Posted by BakoSaint I think you are inflating grades. Clearly some of our drafts have been below average too. When you dont hit on any big impact players its not a win. 2018 we traded up for Marcus davenport who never put it all together. And we paid a ton to move up for him. Behind him we took trainwreck smith and a bunch of camp cuts. That is a poor below average draft. 2020 our first round pick was a guard/center who stunk it up for 2 years and is now starting to look like he might be a serviceable starter as his contract year approaches. And beyond him we got baun who has seemed to be a bust and trout man who screws up in crunch time and occasionally starts seeming alright and then gets hurt and beat out by an undrafted converted receiver. And we made only 4 picks and the last was a spite pick who we camp cut. Overall what i see is too few picks because of too much trading up and trading for rental players and not enough trading back and trading away rental players. We need to hit on stars and we are not taking enough shots. We made some great mid round picks meanwhile we under value the draft capital to make such picks and waste too many on gadget qb and te types. Also i think some make tbe mistake of acting like when we trade future picks to move up its worth extra credit but the next year when we dont have those picks they grade on a curve. In reality essentially half of Marcus Davenport was our 2018 1st rounder and half was our 2019 1st rounder and for both drafts thats half of flashes and not much. 5 pro bowlers were drafted in the 6 picks after davenport. Has we not traded up, 5 pro bowlers were taken in the 15 picks after our original first round slot including lamar jackson. Davenport never made a pro bowler. That was a bad draft. https://www.pro-football-reference.c.../nor/draft.htm You're not wrong, BakoSaint. If we're to analyze the reaches in the first, meaning trading two number ones for a player, historically it''s been a mixed bag and really not worthy of the price tag. Johnathan Sullivan was a disaster. Ingram became a player eventually but took too long to develop. I mean, c'mon, he was a Heisman winner. Worthy number 1 but not two number 1s. Davenport is the same. Good player when healthy, but not worth moving up for. Turner is looking like a similar move. Olave looks like the real deal and a worthy move up. We've had real stinkers before SP in move ups. We have a decent core of guys, nonetheless. DA's first draft is looking good. We need all the picks we can get from a SP trade to overcome the deficiencies we've set ourselves in, meaning not just players but cap situation as well.

12-27-2022, 09:53 AM	#5
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,650	Re: Saints Draft Revisited Over The Years Olave, Penning, and Taylor was a good start for Dennis Allen draft wise. We need interior offensive line help big time moving forward. I'd worry about that more than a QB. The 49ers and Eagles are giving us a pretty good blueprint of what you can accomplish when you give a QB an elite offensive line and excellent weapons. UK_WhoDat, SmashMouth, Sinner and 1 others like this.

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12-28-2022, 08:54 AM	#6
turbo_dog 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,540	Re: Saints Draft Revisited Over The Years It seems the team leadership often thinks we are "one player away". Then they make a desperate deal to go try to get that player. Sometimes it works (Olave), sometimes it doesn't (Davenport). But this isn't basketball. No team is one player away. If you consider how good Saints have been at hitting on late round and undrafted players, you will realize more draft picks would give us a better chance to get quality players. This year's draft is going to sting a bit. SmashMouth likes this.

12-28-2022, 09:09 AM	#7
stickman 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Gonzales, LA Posts: 1,596	Re: Saints Draft Revisited Over The Years Playing devils advocate here (just for fun)... Does any team have a great draft every year? I can't think of any, but I'm sure one of you guys would know. Yes, we seem to have been in win now mode for too long, and yes some of those move ups are questionable. But, unless the guy you want falls right to you, which isn't often, ya gotta make moves. Again, just for fun. Rugby Saint II likes this.

12-28-2022, 10:29 AM	#8
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,086 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Saints Draft Revisited Over The Years Originally Posted by stickman Playing devils advocate here (just for fun)... Does any team have a great draft every year? I can't think of any, but I'm sure one of you guys would know. Yes, we seem to have been in win now mode for too long, and yes some of those move ups are questionable. But, unless the guy you want falls right to you, which isn't often, ya gotta make moves. Again, just for fun. New England used to be considered that team that got many draft picks right but over the last ten years they seem to have been sub par. This years draft for the Saints seems to have been solid without Payton's influence. One could argue that's a factor. Signs point to Ireland being a big reason for doing well in drafts for the Saints so maybe the next draft will be a great draft even without a pick in the first round. SmashMouth likes this.

12-28-2022, 11:13 AM	#9
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,026 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints Draft Revisited Over The Years 2014 class ... outside of B Cooks, terrible draft selections. Baptiste Fortt Sunseri Powell Rooks Ryan Pace missed ... a lot. SmashMouth likes this.

12-28-2022, 11:44 AM	#10
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,650	Re: Saints Draft Revisited Over The Years Originally Posted by K Major 2014 class ... outside of B Cooks, terrible draft selections. Baptiste Fortt Sunseri Powell Rooks Ryan Pace missed ... a lot. Yikes. SmashMouth and K Major like this.