Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton

AsylumGuido · 01-17-2023, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

I think the main reason why Sean holds more leverage is the single fact that he’s not desperate to coach. He’ll go back to Fox or wherever for a couple more years until he’s free if the Saints play hardball. I think Sean was throwing Mickey and the Saints a bone by meeting with Mickey to discuss something they’re both happy with. If Sean was desperate, it’d be a different story. It’s pretty unfortunate because I’m thinking maybe we won’t get what he’s worth imo. I guess we’ll see

I don't think there's anyway that the Saints would, or could, prevent Payton from getting a job. Everyone that he's interviewing (yes, he is interviewing the teams, not the other way around) has already agreed to the basics of compensation for his rights.

subguy · 01-17-2023, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Not econ Guido. The simple fact that the Saints could hold more leverage than you're willing to account for.

Easy there saintsfan you know AG always has to be the smartest man in the room

Mr.Riaton · 01-17-2023, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I don't think there's anyway that the Saints would, or could, prevent Payton from getting a job. Everyone that he's interviewing (yes, he is interviewing the teams, not the other way around) has already agreed to the basics of compensation for his rights.

I understand that, but they can agree all day on terms and if Payton doesn’t like the terms it’s a no go and everyone misses out. That gives Payton the most leverage. That’s the main point I was making.
When he said ‘if the situation is right’, part of that is not getting ass raped by a ton of picks by the Saints from his new team, including high value picks. He’ll just wait it out…He’s not stupid.
I was hopeful at first but starting to think maybe we won’t get what we feel he’s worth unfortunately

AsylumGuido · 01-17-2023, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

I understand that, but they can agree all day on terms and if Payton doesn’t like the terms it’s a no go and everyone misses out. That gives Payton the most leverage. That’s the main point I was making.
When he said ‘if the situation is right’, part of that is not getting ass raped by a ton of picks by the Saints from his new team, including high value picks. He’ll just wait it out…He’s not stupid.
I was hopeful at first but starting to think maybe we won’t get what we feel he’s worth unfortunately

I think you are missing the point that the terms have already been decided. That why he knows it will only include a mid to late round first along with other picks. The Saints are going to get what he's worth. It may not be some unrealistic value that fans expect, however. Some fans expect what the Raiders got while raping Tampa Bay. That was plain stupid. I think everyone now knows that isn't going to happen.

Mr.Riaton · 01-17-2023, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I think you are missing the point that the terms have already been decided. That why he knows it will only include a mid to late round first along with other picks. The Saints are going to get what he's worth. It may not be some unrealistic value that fans expect, however. Some fans expect what the Raiders got while raping Tampa Bay. That was plain stupid. I think everyone now knows that isn't going to happen.

Totally understand that. Not missing the point, just making my own

AsylumGuido · 01-17-2023, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

Totally understand that. Not missing the point, just making my own

And you are correct. We won't get what fans think he's worth. We'll get what is is actually worth.

TheOak · 01-18-2023, 07:19 AM

How is it that people vehemently profess otherwise but continue to explain how the team has the power in this situation?

Who grants permission for interviews? Team
Who gets to decide the transaction cost? Team by letting interested teams know what it will cost to allow the contract to be broken. This narrows a coaches possibilities.
Who has full veto power over any deal? Team

Because on paper the TEAM holds all the power.

I have done this for a living so I will share my experience with negotiations... The party that has the least leverage is always the more desperate party. In Sean Payton's case the team has all the power but ownership, management, and fans have imposed desperation on themselves and that nullifies their leverage. This is a cognitive bias called "Loss Aversion", the fear of getting nothing, and it is what makes people accept bad deals.

Loss Aversion makes fans feel like we absolutely must get something for Sean Payton, and that is what will lead to accepting an outcome below perceived market value. He is a sunk cost that doesn't effect our cap, and you can not lose what you do not possess.

papz · 01-18-2023, 08:49 AM

It's a big compromise between all parties involved. The Saints aren't stuck in a corner with a tube of lube just waiting to get taken advantaged of. That only happens when you have nothing to bargain with.

The point some are trying to make is not about who carries the most leverage in this situation, but saying the fact we have little to none just doesn't make any sense. We own the rights to the biggest chip in the deal and that counts for something. We're all incentivized to make a deal.

AsylumGuido · 01-18-2023, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by papz

It's a big compromise between all parties involved. The Saints aren't stuck in a corner with a tube of lube just waiting to get taken advantaged of. That only happens when you have nothing to bargain with.

The point some are trying to make is not about who carries the most leverage in this situation, but saying the fact we have little to none just doesn't make any sense. We own the rights to the biggest chip in the deal and that counts for something. We're all incentivized to make a deal.

Exactly. That's why we are going to get a decent, fair deal. We aren't going to get anything ridiculous like multiple 1st's. We don't have that much leverage to get it if the team he wants to go to doesn't feel he's worth it. But this is all moot. Each team interested has already been told the same basic thing as far as compensation and all that were granted interviews agreed to those preliminary terms.

AsylumGuido · 01-18-2023, 10:51 AM

Sean's shopping trip continues.

01-17-2023, 06:33 PM	#141
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton I think the main reason why Sean holds more leverage is the single fact that he’s not desperate to coach. He’ll go back to Fox or wherever for a couple more years until he’s free if the Saints play hardball. I think Sean was throwing Mickey and the Saints a bone by meeting with Mickey to discuss something they’re both happy with. If Sean was desperate, it’d be a different story. It’s pretty unfortunate because I’m thinking maybe we won’t get what he’s worth imo. I guess we’ll see I don't think there's anyway that the Saints would, or could, prevent Payton from getting a job. Everyone that he's interviewing (yes, he is interviewing the teams, not the other way around) has already agreed to the basics of compensation for his rights.

01-17-2023, 06:33 PM	#142
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,095	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Not econ Guido. The simple fact that the Saints could hold more leverage than you're willing to account for. Easy there saintsfan you know AG always has to be the smartest man in the room K Major likes this.

01-17-2023, 07:05 PM	#143
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,264	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I don't think there's anyway that the Saints would, or could, prevent Payton from getting a job. Everyone that he's interviewing (yes, he is interviewing the teams, not the other way around) has already agreed to the basics of compensation for his rights. I understand that, but they can agree all day on terms and if Payton doesn’t like the terms it’s a no go and everyone misses out. That gives Payton the most leverage. That’s the main point I was making. When he said ‘if the situation is right’, part of that is not getting ass raped by a ton of picks by the Saints from his new team, including high value picks. He’ll just wait it out…He’s not stupid. I was hopeful at first but starting to think maybe we won’t get what we feel he’s worth unfortunately

01-17-2023, 07:27 PM	#144
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton I understand that, but they can agree all day on terms and if Payton doesn’t like the terms it’s a no go and everyone misses out. That gives Payton the most leverage. That’s the main point I was making. When he said ‘if the situation is right’, part of that is not getting ass raped by a ton of picks by the Saints from his new team, including high value picks. He’ll just wait it out…He’s not stupid. I was hopeful at first but starting to think maybe we won’t get what we feel he’s worth unfortunately I think you are missing the point that the terms have already been decided. That why he knows it will only include a mid to late round first along with other picks. The Saints are going to get what he's worth. It may not be some unrealistic value that fans expect, however. Some fans expect what the Raiders got while raping Tampa Bay. That was plain stupid. I think everyone now knows that isn't going to happen.

01-17-2023, 07:34 PM	#145
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,264	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I think you are missing the point that the terms have already been decided. That why he knows it will only include a mid to late round first along with other picks. The Saints are going to get what he's worth. It may not be some unrealistic value that fans expect, however. Some fans expect what the Raiders got while raping Tampa Bay. That was plain stupid. I think everyone now knows that isn't going to happen. Totally understand that. Not missing the point, just making my own

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01-17-2023, 07:55 PM	#146
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton Totally understand that. Not missing the point, just making my own And you are correct. We won't get what fans think he's worth. We'll get what is is actually worth.

01-18-2023, 07:19 AM	#147
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton How is it that people vehemently profess otherwise but continue to explain how the team has the power in this situation? Who grants permission for interviews? Team Who gets to decide the transaction cost? Team by letting interested teams know what it will cost to allow the contract to be broken. This narrows a coaches possibilities. Who has full veto power over any deal? Team Because on paper the TEAM holds all the power. I have done this for a living so I will share my experience with negotiations... The party that has the least leverage is always the more desperate party. In Sean Payton's case the team has all the power but ownership, management, and fans have imposed desperation on themselves and that nullifies their leverage. This is a cognitive bias called "Loss Aversion", the fear of getting nothing, and it is what makes people accept bad deals. Loss Aversion makes fans feel like we absolutely must get something for Sean Payton, and that is what will lead to accepting an outcome below perceived market value. He is a sunk cost that doesn't effect our cap, and you can not lose what you do not possess. iceshack149, UK_WhoDat, papz and 1 others like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

01-18-2023, 08:49 AM	#148
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton It's a big compromise between all parties involved. The Saints aren't stuck in a corner with a tube of lube just waiting to get taken advantaged of. That only happens when you have nothing to bargain with. The point some are trying to make is not about who carries the most leverage in this situation, but saying the fact we have little to none just doesn't make any sense. We own the rights to the biggest chip in the deal and that counts for something. We're all incentivized to make a deal.
	Last edited by papz; 01-18-2023 at 09:00 AM..

01-18-2023, 10:45 AM	#149
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Originally Posted by papz It's a big compromise between all parties involved. The Saints aren't stuck in a corner with a tube of lube just waiting to get taken advantaged of. That only happens when you have nothing to bargain with. The point some are trying to make is not about who carries the most leverage in this situation, but saying the fact we have little to none just doesn't make any sense. We own the rights to the biggest chip in the deal and that counts for something. We're all incentivized to make a deal. Exactly. That's why we are going to get a decent, fair deal. We aren't going to get anything ridiculous like multiple 1st's. We don't have that much leverage to get it if the team he wants to go to doesn't feel he's worth it. But this is all moot. Each team interested has already been told the same basic thing as far as compensation and all that were granted interviews agreed to those preliminary terms.

01-18-2023, 10:51 AM	#150
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Cards, Texans permitted to interview Sean Payton Sean's shopping trip continues. Twitter