Who is drafting better so far... DA or SP?

SmashMouth · 05-03-2023, 02:08 PM

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The comparison begins here below.

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AsylumGuido · 05-03-2023, 02:23 PM

From my understanding Dennis Allen, like most head coaches, isn't the decision maker for the actual draft. Some time back I had asked one of the beat writers (can't remember which one at the moment) whether Dennis Allen would be as involved or have as much "say so" in the selection of players during the draft. I was told no. He said that Allen would have input, but nowhere near the "say so" that Sean Payton held.

So basically, the question might be more accurate as "who is drafting better so far ... Ireland/Loomis or Payton.

I would definitely say Ireland and Loomis.

Big_L · 05-03-2023, 06:26 PM

I like the idea of not trading our #1 pick. I understand the reasoning behind Olave last season, but it seems like Sean was constantly trading away our #1 pick.

dizzle88 · 05-03-2023, 06:32 PM

To me, whoever has picked during DA's tenure, has been better.

Payton's tenure, I felt he reached an absolute ton for players that never amounted to their draft position. Davenport, Peat, Stanley Jean Baptiste, Trautman etc often trading away valuable picks.

It often felt Payton just ignored positions of need too. We needed WR's badly for about 4 years and he just ignored it year after year. Then DA's first year in charge, he drafts one of the highest rated ones in the draft.

Mr.Riaton · 05-03-2023, 07:28 PM

Hmm hard to say. We had an epic 2017 draft under Payton and a couple other decent ones throughout the years. Definitely had our share of bad ones too. It’s only been year two under Allen but it seems to be trending nicely so far. I feel like since Ireland came aboard we’ve been hitting better on our picks overall. I think he’s the main reason why we’ve been successful last few years.

MatthewT · 05-04-2023, 11:43 AM

There is not a clear cut answer to this because circumstances are different. There were several teams under Payton that were absolutely loaded, and therefore could take more chances on high risk/reward type of players. Right now the Saints are in their version of a rebuild and so far under DA appear to be taking more of a need approach.

Rugby Saint II · 05-04-2023, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

There is not a clear cut answer to this because circumstances are different. There were several teams under Payton that were absolutely loaded, and therefore could take more chances on high risk/reward type of players. Right now the Saints are in their version of a rebuild and so far under DA appear to be taking more of a need approach.

I truly believe that this statement hits home and we are in a small rebuild rather than a major over haul. We are not currently one player away from a championship. With this draft we filled necessary team needs and wants, along with picking up some good depth pieces in this draft, which is critical because the NFC South could be more competitive than anticipated.

I will always believe that Payton is a great coach who methodically led us to our first Super bowl and created a mini dynasty! He needs a strong GM in Denver to curtail his aggressive gambling tendencies though. Like most leaders he has faults and needs good advisers.

The true hero here is Jeff Ireland! He finds something under every rock he looks under and is able to identify impact personnel that fits our system. He knows how to envision players in roles and that is what the Saints packages are built on.

SmashMouth · 05-04-2023, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

There is not a clear cut answer to this because circumstances are different. There were several teams under Payton that were absolutely loaded, and therefore could take more chances on high risk/reward type of players. Right now the Saints are in their version of a rebuild and so far under DA appear to be taking more of a need approach.

Maybe... but the question remains, should SP and the Saints have taken such chances and how does that bode for his track record, especially vs what DA has recently done? We still need time for assess DA's drafts. IMHO. Maybe this is a question for three years down the line.

AsylumGuido · 05-04-2023, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Maybe... but the question remains, should SP and the Saints have taken such chances and how does that bode for his track record, especially vs what DA has recently done? We still need time for assess DA's drafts. IMHO. Maybe this is a question for three years down the line.

Just another reminder, Smash. These are not Dennis Allen drafts. The power to make personnel decisions that Payton enjoyed is rare for any head coach. Allen does not have that freedom. He of course does provide input when asked as does the rest of the coaching staff, but he is in no way running the draft as did Payton and only three or four head coaches in recent history. Belichick, Parcells, and perhaps Andy Reid may have been the only others. This is now Loomis and Harley making the calls, not Dennis Allen.

SmashMouth · 05-05-2023, 01:58 PM

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05-03-2023, 02:23 PM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,173	Re: Who is drafting better so far... DA or SP? From my understanding Dennis Allen, like most head coaches, isn't the decision maker for the actual draft. Some time back I had asked one of the beat writers (can't remember which one at the moment) whether Dennis Allen would be as involved or have as much "say so" in the selection of players during the draft. I was told no. He said that Allen would have input, but nowhere near the "say so" that Sean Payton held. So basically, the question might be more accurate as "who is drafting better so far ... Ireland/Loomis or Payton. I would definitely say Ireland and Loomis. Crusader, WW_Who_Dat, Thirty3 and 1 others like this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

05-03-2023, 06:26 PM	#3
Big_L Registered Join Date: Oct 2022 Posts: 36	Re: Who is drafting better so far... DA or SP? I like the idea of not trading our #1 pick. I understand the reasoning behind Olave last season, but it seems like Sean was constantly trading away our #1 pick. Rugby Saint II likes this.
Big_L Registered Join Date: Oct 2022 Posts: 36

05-03-2023, 06:32 PM	#4
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,182	Re: Who is drafting better so far... DA or SP? To me, whoever has picked during DA's tenure, has been better. Payton's tenure, I felt he reached an absolute ton for players that never amounted to their draft position. Davenport, Peat, Stanley Jean Baptiste, Trautman etc often trading away valuable picks. It often felt Payton just ignored positions of need too. We needed WR's badly for about 4 years and he just ignored it year after year. Then DA's first year in charge, he drafts one of the highest rated ones in the draft. iceshack149, papz, SmashMouth and 4 others like this.

05-03-2023, 07:28 PM	#5
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,264	Re: Who is drafting better so far... DA or SP? Hmm hard to say. We had an epic 2017 draft under Payton and a couple other decent ones throughout the years. Definitely had our share of bad ones too. It’s only been year two under Allen but it seems to be trending nicely so far. I feel like since Ireland came aboard we’ve been hitting better on our picks overall. I think he’s the main reason why we’ve been successful last few years. SmashMouth and Rugby Saint II like this.

05-04-2023, 11:43 AM	#6
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: Who is drafting better so far... DA or SP? There is not a clear cut answer to this because circumstances are different. There were several teams under Payton that were absolutely loaded, and therefore could take more chances on high risk/reward type of players. Right now the Saints are in their version of a rebuild and so far under DA appear to be taking more of a need approach. Rugby Saint II likes this.

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05-04-2023, 12:30 PM	#7
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,044	Re: Who is drafting better so far... DA or SP? Originally Posted by MatthewT There is not a clear cut answer to this because circumstances are different. There were several teams under Payton that were absolutely loaded, and therefore could take more chances on high risk/reward type of players. Right now the Saints are in their version of a rebuild and so far under DA appear to be taking more of a need approach. I truly believe that this statement hits home and we are in a small rebuild rather than a major over haul. We are not currently one player away from a championship. With this draft we filled necessary team needs and wants, along with picking up some good depth pieces in this draft, which is critical because the NFC South could be more competitive than anticipated. I will always believe that Payton is a great coach who methodically led us to our first Super bowl and created a mini dynasty! He needs a strong GM in Denver to curtail his aggressive gambling tendencies though. Like most leaders he has faults and needs good advisers. The true hero here is Jeff Ireland! He finds something under every rock he looks under and is able to identify impact personnel that fits our system. He knows how to envision players in roles and that is what the Saints packages are built on. MatthewT, Mr.Riaton and Boston Saint like this.
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05-04-2023, 02:59 PM	#8
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,123 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Who is drafting better so far... DA or SP? Originally Posted by MatthewT There is not a clear cut answer to this because circumstances are different. There were several teams under Payton that were absolutely loaded, and therefore could take more chances on high risk/reward type of players. Right now the Saints are in their version of a rebuild and so far under DA appear to be taking more of a need approach. Maybe... but the question remains, should SP and the Saints have taken such chances and how does that bode for his track record, especially vs what DA has recently done? We still need time for assess DA's drafts. IMHO. Maybe this is a question for three years down the line.

05-04-2023, 03:35 PM	#9
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,173	Re: Who is drafting better so far... DA or SP? Originally Posted by SmashMouth Maybe... but the question remains, should SP and the Saints have taken such chances and how does that bode for his track record, especially vs what DA has recently done? We still need time for assess DA's drafts. IMHO. Maybe this is a question for three years down the line. Just another reminder, Smash. These are not Dennis Allen drafts. The power to make personnel decisions that Payton enjoyed is rare for any head coach. Allen does not have that freedom. He of course does provide input when asked as does the rest of the coaching staff, but he is in no way running the draft as did Payton and only three or four head coaches in recent history. Belichick, Parcells, and perhaps Andy Reid may have been the only others. This is now Loomis and Harley making the calls, not Dennis Allen.