Special Teams battles
 

Along with injuries, questionable ref calls, and coaching issues, general poor play by some players contributed to last year's 10 loss season. I think both Gillikin and Lutz underperformed last year for example. I've not looked at cap numbers, but how does everyone feel about their chances of rebounding with good years vs losing their jobs to new guys like this Australian football player guy Hedley?

Re: Special Teams battles
 

Underhill and Triplett discussed this very topic about a week ago. Their take was that Lutz' injury contributed to his difficulties early (5 of his season total of 8 missed). One of those misses was from 62 yards and he hit the upright and still almost made it. He was 33 for 33 on extra points. They both said it is his job to lose and so far he doesn't look like he'll lose it.

Gillikin, according to them, has a real battle. After a great rookie season he was only average in year two. They said Hedley is actually more like the veteran at 29 years old. I wouldn't mind seeing him get the job. He'd be interesting.

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Quevedo is the other kicker in camp?

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No. Blake Grupe.

Played for Arkansas State and then played his final season with Notre Dame. Went 14-19 on FG's and 49-49 on the shorter college XP's last year. Sounds like a camp leg.

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I'm kinda hoping we can move on from Lutz

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I was hoping we would make a move for Riley Patterson when Jacksonville decided to move on from him. I still believe Lutz can get the job done but he should be on a short leash.

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That's pretty random. Why Riley Patterson? I'd honestly never heard of him. Had to look him up.

Re: Special Teams battles
 

How come you want to move on from Lutz? He did take a pay cut if I remember correctly. Personally, I'd like to see Lutz kicking with the same consistency that he had before his injury. If not, he's got serious competition, so we should be alright.

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Not sure who that serious competition actually is. Grupe isn't anything special.

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Nothing against Lutz. Just that if he is outperformed this preseason we'd by definition have a better kicker. Also just feels like a new kicker would be a symbolic new start for the team under Allen rather than a Payton hold over. But I'm probably reading too much into it

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Not the time to roll the dice on a rookie kicker.

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How so? Lutz did not a good season and we should always look to get better. Patterson had a good season for Jacksonville last season and we waived. He would have been good competition to push Lutz.

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If you say so. Still never heard of the dude. Maybe we can bring him in for a tryout when he gets cut by Detroit again.

Edit: Okay. I did some more research and this Patterson guy was never a free agent. He wasn't available for the Saints to even sign. He was traded to Detroit from J'Ville. There was nothing there for the Saints to "waive" at.

MAY 25 2023
Traded to Detroit (DET) from Jacksonville (JAC) for 2026 7th round pick

But seriously, papz, did you have him on your fantasy team or something? There were 20 free agent veteran kickers out there to pick from. He wasn't among them.

Re: Special Teams battles
 

Jacksonville announced they were waiving Patterson then traded him back to Detroit. Had he hit the waiver wire, I would have put in a claim. When he got pulled back, I also would have made an offer for him as well.

We waived was a typo. Was waived was meant there. It’s impossible to waive someone not on our roster no? I’ll make sure I proofread my post so you don’t get easily confused in the future. Whether you heard of him or not, doesn’t dispel the fact he had a better season than Lutz and would have cost practically nothing to acquire. And truthfully, I don’t care if you know who he is. Your knowledge of him doesn’t make him any more or lesser of a player. My opinion does not need your stamp of approval.

I’m not sure what fantasy football has to do with this. That’s quite the tangent. I neither play nor discuss fantasy football with anyone on this board. Would it make you feel better if we talked about a different kicker that you actually know about? I mean we can… it didn’t have to be Riley Patterson. The point of the matter is we need someone here to push Lutz after his poor season. It just so happens Riley was a good kicker who was available earlier in the off-season that I was interested in when he was out on the market.

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Dins Papz. Dins.

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I was just wondering where your interest in him in particular originated. That's why I mentioned it as seeming random. I brought up fantasy because that's an arena where lessor known players are sometimes identified by fans. I wonder why J'Ville decided to move on from him after one season. Okay, I see now. They jumped all over McManus when Denver released him. I do remember hearing something about that. It looks like they already had a second year practice squad kicker, McCourt, as competition. They probably gave Detroit a call asking if they wanted their kicker back before he was waived. Who knows, maybe the Saints may have tried to pick him up off waivers had he been released.

But, you think it would have been a good idea if the Saints had given up a draft pick just to try the guy out beside Lutz? That might have gone over like a turd in a punch bowl with some fans. We got that player as competition for no draft collateral as a UDFA in Blake Grupe. I could see bringing in one of the 12 remaining free agents if Lutz was seen as having any difficulties this off-season. From everything I've heard, mainly from Underhill and Triplett, both Lutz and Grupe are looking good so far. They both said they've seen nothing that would prevent Lutz from keeping the job, however.

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Lutz has dropped in accuracy over the last three seasons straight. It makes perfect sense to look for an upgrade at every position including kicker. I'd love an open competition of 5 guys to challenge him this season. Why are you down on people that want the best available kicker for the team?

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I'm not down on anyone. I was just curious why papz was so high on that guy. Anyway, Lutz does have competition. You can have an open competition of 5 guys for one day before setting the 90 man roster, I suppose, to decide what two you what to give a contract and come to camp to compete for the final job. But you can't tie up five of 90 roster spots with kickers for a prolonged competition. I'm sure they considered several as options. But, the Saints do have someone providing that competition in Grupe. He apparently held his own to this point, but he'd need to clearly beat out Lutz to get the gig. Tie goes to the experienced vet.

And as I pointed out, there are still 12 veteran kickers out there not currently on a 90 man roster that can be called in if either of our two goes south suddenly. Including the guy you mentioned, Alex Quevedo.

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"Tie goes to the experienced vet". That's a flawed point of view, especially if the younger guy is cheaper. Especially if the vet is in a three year downturn

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My point of view doesn't matter, flawed or not. Fortunately I'm not the one making the decision. Nor are any of us, thank God. I'll leave that to the ones that know the best.

:bng:

:beer:

Re: Special Teams battles
 

Not necessarily Boston. It may come down to who makes the longest kicks consistently. It may be who is best at PAT's or maybe who is the most consistent. My point is whoever is the best kicker wins. If it's a tie then I think the tie goes to the vet. Didn't Lutz take a pay cut? If so, then cost isn't really a factor but trust is still important.

Re: Special Teams battles
 

Bump ...

Good topic here Boston.

Since the Saints just lost Dowell (IR/knee), it leaves the door open for Baun and Jackson as our #3&4. I'd give DD & Pete W more "vet" days off at camp ;) . 17 games + the possible postseason is a grind.

Guys on the outside looking in on S/T include Anderson & Connelly.

It appears Zach Baun's ceiling is special teams :rolleyes:.

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+1.

Solid post.

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Will Lutz isn't giving up his job without a fight. Right now Lutz and Grupe are tied with only on miss in practice. Lutz has been money and my guess is Lutz will win the competition, and Grupe will wind up show casing his skills and probably making it on another team. Our punter is nailing coffin kicks again and we still have Shaheed giving us electric returns. I don't see special teams as a weakness this year unlike the last couple of years.

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Dang, I called this on both kicker and punter !

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We've got a minor kicking for us and an Aussie rugby player punting. We will sure look different getting off the bus now.

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Boston called it months ago.

See post #10.

But man, rookie kickers scare me.

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Every Saints kicker since Mort Anderson has scared me !

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Every Saints kicker since Mort Andersen has scared me !

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Looking at it in retrospect, it totally makes sense. After Groupe hit that game winner in preseason, you could see the way the team rallied around him. It’s just another step in DA making it his team and not a remnant of Peyton’s team.

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That's definitely worth saying twice. :wink: