Khai Harley - Assistant General Manager/Vice President of Football Operations

AsylumGuido · 08-22-2023, 04:29 PM

Well deserved for Harley!

SmashMouth likes this.

AsylumGuido · 08-22-2023, 04:30 PM

This will hopefully keep him in house for a bit longer. A vital piece of arguably the best front office in the NFL!

SmashMouth · 08-22-2023, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

This will hopefully keep him in house for a bit longer. A vital piece of arguably the best front office in the NFL!

That means it GM or bust if he leaves us.

Where does that leave Jeff Ireland ?

BakoSaint · 08-22-2023, 10:13 PM

Big irony that Chase Daniel a backup QB known for getting paid big bucks over the years to not play called Khai one of the very best in the game, after Khai has helped pay countless millions to Michael Thomas, Jameis Winston, Andrus Peat, and Taysom Hill to not play / not start / remain injured.

Nothing Khai does is vital. A 1st grader with a little training could learn the basic math of converting a $21 million salary to a $1 million salary and $20 million restructuring bonus and prorating the $20 million over 4 or 5 years at $5 or $4 million year year. Its not wizardry, its basic math that happy fools call wizardry because they dont want to look at what it means we owe later and how that ties us down to the player forever, because that would ruin the magic of free money.

Beyond borrowing money with 1st grade math. All Khai knows how to do is negotiate contracts. What is his masterpiece? Taysom Hill at like $15 million a year for a few gadget plays and a backup TE? Andrus Peat for $10 million a year? Keeping Andrus Peat this year for $6 million (about 500-600k per game)? Getting Michael Thomas to take an amazing pay cut to $10 million base salary and $4 million in bonuses so a guy who hasn't been healthy in 4 years is only making $14 million? Converting basically all of Kamara and Maye's base salaries to guaranteed bonuses so suspensions would cost them next to nothing our cap could take the hit for their actions? If only we could give Khai promotions for all these amazing successes and just make him King of the Saints for life.

I hope this promotion gets Khai looked at for a GM post with one of our division rivals. That would be a win. His main skills are borrowing money and signing bad contracts. Ireland is the real talent in our front office. Overall we don't have a top front office. The teams that are actually winning rings in the last 12 years without mortgaging their cap to the max are the ones with the best front offices. We have the most debt, what we are the best at is borrowing money from future caps, but all we have to show for it is 7-10 and heroic stories of better records from the past when we had a HOF QB.

Yes Guido, as you suspect, this post is negative.

Rugby Saint II · 08-24-2023, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Big irony that Chase Daniel a backup QB known for getting paid big bucks over the years to not play called Khai one of the very best in the game, after Khai has helped pay countless millions to Michael Thomas, Jameis Winston, Andrus Peat, and Taysom Hill to not play / not start / remain injured.

Nothing Khai does is vital. A 1st grader with a little training could learn the basic math of converting a $21 million salary to a $1 million salary and $20 million restructuring bonus and prorating the $20 million over 4 or 5 years at $5 or $4 million year year. Its not wizardry, its basic math that happy fools call wizardry because they dont want to look at what it means we owe later and how that ties us down to the player forever, because that would ruin the magic of free money.

Beyond borrowing money with 1st grade math. All Khai knows how to do is negotiate contracts. What is his masterpiece? Taysom Hill at like $15 million a year for a few gadget plays and a backup TE? Andrus Peat for $10 million a year? Keeping Andrus Peat this year for $6 million (about 500-600k per game)? Getting Michael Thomas to take an amazing pay cut to $10 million base salary and $4 million in bonuses so a guy who hasn't been healthy in 4 years is only making $14 million? Converting basically all of Kamara and Maye's base salaries to guaranteed bonuses so suspensions would cost them next to nothing our cap could take the hit for their actions? If only we could give Khai promotions for all these amazing successes and just make him King of the Saints for life.

I hope this promotion gets Khai looked at for a GM post with one of our division rivals. That would be a win. His main skills are borrowing money and signing bad contracts. Ireland is the real talent in our front office. Overall we don't have a top front office. The teams that are actually winning rings in the last 12 years without mortgaging their cap to the max are the ones with the best front offices. We have the most debt, what we are the best at is borrowing money from future caps, but all we have to show for it is 7-10 and heroic stories of better records from the past when we had a HOF QB.

Yes Guido, as you suspect, this post is negative.

Your right! This post is full of negativity for sure! Let me see if I've got this right. You want to get rid of everyone in the front office that has made us a favored free agent destination and send them to a division rival to build a winner. I just can't see it.

We have sustained one of the best winning records and have a strong fan base.....besides you, of course. I respect your opinions but I don't agree with them in the least.

AsylumGuido · 08-24-2023, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

[/B]

Your right! This post is full of negativity for sure! Let me see if I've got this right. You want to get rid of everyone in the front office that has made us a favored free agent destination and send them to a division rival to build a winner. I just can't see it.

We have sustained one of the best winning records and have a strong fan base.....besides you, of course. I respect your opinions but I don't agree with them in the least.

Glad to see I'm not missing anything important or of value, Rugs.

Thanks!

BakoSaint · 08-24-2023, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

[/B]

Your right! This post is full of negativity for sure! Let me see if I've got this right. You want to get rid of everyone in the front office that has made us a favored free agent destination and send them to a division rival to build a winner. I just can't see it.

We have sustained one of the best winning records and have a strong fan base.....besides you, of course. I respect your opinions but I don't agree with them in the least.

No I want to keep Jeff Ireland and the scouts. I want to get rid of the debt fanatics, Loomis and Harley. I am not impressed with their work to make sure Peat, Winston, Hill, Kamara, and Thomas retire as Saints. I believe that Loomis got lucky the year he brought in Payton and Brees and has not done much since. As he said in a recent interview 10 teams were hiring coaches that year and we were the #10 destination. So he probably had to pass on his top choices, and ended up with Payton, which might have been Benson's call anyway. Then Payton liked Brees, and Miami doctors would not clear Brees, so we got Brees. Everything we did with Brees and Payton, winning one Superbowl in 15 years, was not that impressive. Loomis's bad tendencies have gotten worse and Harley is his lacky. Nothing about the math they do to get under the salary cap is complicated, they just reduce all the base salaries to 1 million, convert the rest to bonuses, add void year, pay out the money over 5+ years. Its simple. But it has bad consequences where we miss out on comp picks and franchise tag options on any player past their rookie contracts, and when we need to move on from an aging brittle player we can't because the cap hit is too big. We basically brought university tenure to NFL football with Andrus Peat.

Rugby Saint II · 08-26-2023, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

No I want to keep Jeff Ireland and the scouts. I want to get rid of the debt fanatics, Loomis and Harley. I am not impressed with their work to make sure Peat, Winston, Hill, Kamara, and Thomas retire as Saints. I believe that Loomis got lucky the year he brought in Payton and Brees and has not done much since. As he said in a recent interview 10 teams were hiring coaches that year and we were the #10 destination. So he probably had to pass on his top choices, and ended up with Payton, which might have been Benson's call anyway. Then Payton liked Brees, and Miami doctors would not clear Brees, so we got Brees. Everything we did with Brees and Payton, winning one Superbowl in 15 years, was not that impressive. Loomis's bad tendencies have gotten worse and Harley is his lacky. Nothing about the math they do to get under the salary cap is complicated, they just reduce all the base salaries to 1 million, convert the rest to bonuses, add void year, pay out the money over 5+ years. Its simple. But it has bad consequences where we miss out on comp picks and franchise tag options on any player past their rookie contracts, and when we need to move on from an aging brittle player we can't because the cap hit is too big. We basically brought university tenure to NFL football with Andrus Peat.

That's some pretty good math Bako. Sometimes I like the way you think.

I disagree about how bad our accounting principles are handled though. It has bitten us in the butt before but we've benefitted greatly from our cap structure and principles. Hey, did you notice that we actually got a couple of comp picks last year?

BakoSaint · 08-26-2023, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

That's some pretty good math Bako. Sometimes I like the way you think.

I disagree about how bad our accounting principles are handled though. It has bitten us in the butt before but we've benefitted greatly from our cap structure and principles. Hey, did you notice that we actually got a couple of comp picks last year?

I did notice we got some comp picks which is good. But I fear we got them for the wrong reason. I think our finances crumbled where we lost a lot of solid young players coming off their rookie deals and were unable to get similar players from other teams to make up for it. So we did get comp picks. But we got comp picks after replacing young with old or young with journeyman, which is not good. We also may have had some cases where we traded for veterans on the last year of their deals or signed veterans for one year fill ins and didnt resign them and those could have played into comp picks. I am not sure. Players like Jackrabbit, Apple, Sanders, etc. But the more cap trouble we get into the less we can do that.

Exactly how void years we frequently use play in to comp picks is not clear. I thought you did not get comp picks if the contract voided, as it was like a cut, but that may not totally be the case. Apparently void years original to the contract and automatic may not prevent a team from getting comp picks. But ones added to shorten the contract may. Void years added in restructure to artificially lengthen the contract to borrow from future salary caps I can't find a clear answer. See this discussion. I apologize if I was a little off before, its super confusing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comment...s_explanation/

But the void years can also mess with the ability to use franchise tags. Had we been able to tag Terron Armstead, its very possible we could have traded him for better than what we got in comp picks. But we couldn't because his void triggered after the tag window closed. It could have been structured to trigger earlier and give us the ability to tag him, but we supposedly made a 'concession' to Armstead in making it void later. But what is the truth of this 'concession' if every year we are having to restructure every big contract to sneak under the cap? Its not really a concession if agents know they have us by the balls and if their player refuses to restructure we can't get under the cap. So what is likely to happen is that every contract we restructure with void years is going to have those voids trigger late so we can't apply the franchise tag. Which means if Derek Carr does happen to be great, and thinks the Jags will pay him $80 million, he can just walk because restructures will put his void dates at times where we can't use a tag. Same with any of our other stars who restructure.

https://www.yahoo.com/video/many-sai...193624552.html

Overall, having to restucture every big contract every year gives too much leverage to players. They can easily demand void dates that prevent them from being tagged. They also lose next to nothing if they are suspended or hold out because their salary was converted to a bonus that is already paid and their game checks are loose change. You don't pay interest on debt in the nfl, but in a sense you do. Kamara gets three weeks off for $200,000. I wish I could get three weeks off for 1% of my salary. The Dolphins got Terron Armstead for pick 110 or something. Thats the price we pay.

08-22-2023, 04:30 PM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Khai Harley - Assistant General Manager/Vice President of Football Operations This will hopefully keep him in house for a bit longer. A vital piece of arguably the best front office in the NFL! SmashMouth likes this.

08-22-2023, 07:08 PM	#3
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 37,017 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Khai Harley - Assistant General Manager/Vice President of Football Operations Originally Posted by AsylumGuido This will hopefully keep him in house for a bit longer. A vital piece of arguably the best front office in the NFL! That means it GM or bust if he leaves us. Where does that leave Jeff Ireland ?

08-22-2023, 10:13 PM	#4
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,759	Re: Khai Harley - Assistant General Manager/Vice President of Football Operations Big irony that Chase Daniel a backup QB known for getting paid big bucks over the years to not play called Khai one of the very best in the game, after Khai has helped pay countless millions to Michael Thomas, Jameis Winston, Andrus Peat, and Taysom Hill to not play / not start / remain injured. Nothing Khai does is vital. A 1st grader with a little training could learn the basic math of converting a $21 million salary to a $1 million salary and $20 million restructuring bonus and prorating the $20 million over 4 or 5 years at $5 or $4 million year year. Its not wizardry, its basic math that happy fools call wizardry because they dont want to look at what it means we owe later and how that ties us down to the player forever, because that would ruin the magic of free money. Beyond borrowing money with 1st grade math. All Khai knows how to do is negotiate contracts. What is his masterpiece? Taysom Hill at like $15 million a year for a few gadget plays and a backup TE? Andrus Peat for $10 million a year? Keeping Andrus Peat this year for $6 million (about 500-600k per game)? Getting Michael Thomas to take an amazing pay cut to $10 million base salary and $4 million in bonuses so a guy who hasn't been healthy in 4 years is only making $14 million? Converting basically all of Kamara and Maye's base salaries to guaranteed bonuses so suspensions would cost them next to nothing our cap could take the hit for their actions? If only we could give Khai promotions for all these amazing successes and just make him King of the Saints for life. I hope this promotion gets Khai looked at for a GM post with one of our division rivals. That would be a win. His main skills are borrowing money and signing bad contracts. Ireland is the real talent in our front office. Overall we don't have a top front office. The teams that are actually winning rings in the last 12 years without mortgaging their cap to the max are the ones with the best front offices. We have the most debt, what we are the best at is borrowing money from future caps, but all we have to show for it is 7-10 and heroic stories of better records from the past when we had a HOF QB. Yes Guido, as you suspect, this post is negative.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,759

08-24-2023, 12:26 PM	#5
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,739	Re: Khai Harley - Assistant General Manager/Vice President of Football Operations Originally Posted by BakoSaint Big irony that Chase Daniel a backup QB known for getting paid big bucks over the years to not play called Khai one of the very best in the game, after Khai has helped pay countless millions to Michael Thomas, Jameis Winston, Andrus Peat, and Taysom Hill to not play / not start / remain injured. Nothing Khai does is vital. A 1st grader with a little training could learn the basic math of converting a $21 million salary to a $1 million salary and $20 million restructuring bonus and prorating the $20 million over 4 or 5 years at $5 or $4 million year year. Its not wizardry, its basic math that happy fools call wizardry because they dont want to look at what it means we owe later and how that ties us down to the player forever, because that would ruin the magic of free money. Beyond borrowing money with 1st grade math. All Khai knows how to do is negotiate contracts. What is his masterpiece? Taysom Hill at like $15 million a year for a few gadget plays and a backup TE? Andrus Peat for $10 million a year? Keeping Andrus Peat this year for $6 million (about 500-600k per game)? Getting Michael Thomas to take an amazing pay cut to $10 million base salary and $4 million in bonuses so a guy who hasn't been healthy in 4 years is only making $14 million? Converting basically all of Kamara and Maye's base salaries to guaranteed bonuses so suspensions would cost them next to nothing our cap could take the hit for their actions? If only we could give Khai promotions for all these amazing successes and just make him King of the Saints for life. I hope this promotion gets Khai looked at for a GM post with one of our division rivals. That would be a win. His main skills are borrowing money and signing bad contracts. Ireland is the real talent in our front office. Overall we don't have a top front office. The teams that are actually winning rings in the last 12 years without mortgaging their cap to the max are the ones with the best front offices. We have the most debt, what we are the best at is borrowing money from future caps, but all we have to show for it is 7-10 and heroic stories of better records from the past when we had a HOF QB. Yes Guido, as you suspect, this post is negative. Your right! This post is full of negativity for sure! Let me see if I've got this right. You want to get rid of everyone in the front office that has made us a favored free agent destination and send them to a division rival to build a winner. I just can't see it. We have sustained one of the best winning records and have a strong fan base.....besides you, of course. I respect your opinions but I don't agree with them in the least. Crusader and Boston Saint like this.

08-24-2023, 12:30 PM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Khai Harley - Assistant General Manager/Vice President of Football Operations Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II [/B] Your right! This post is full of negativity for sure! Let me see if I've got this right. You want to get rid of everyone in the front office that has made us a favored free agent destination and send them to a division rival to build a winner. I just can't see it. We have sustained one of the best winning records and have a strong fan base.....besides you, of course. I respect your opinions but I don't agree with them in the least. Glad to see I'm not missing anything important or of value, Rugs. Thanks!

08-22-2023, 04:29 PM	#1
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Khai Harley - Assistant General Manager/Vice President of Football Operations Well deserved for Harley! Twitter SmashMouth likes this.

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08-24-2023, 05:57 PM	#7
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,759	Re: Khai Harley - Assistant General Manager/Vice President of Football Operations Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II [/B] Your right! This post is full of negativity for sure! Let me see if I've got this right. You want to get rid of everyone in the front office that has made us a favored free agent destination and send them to a division rival to build a winner. I just can't see it. We have sustained one of the best winning records and have a strong fan base.....besides you, of course. I respect your opinions but I don't agree with them in the least. No I want to keep Jeff Ireland and the scouts. I want to get rid of the debt fanatics, Loomis and Harley. I am not impressed with their work to make sure Peat, Winston, Hill, Kamara, and Thomas retire as Saints. I believe that Loomis got lucky the year he brought in Payton and Brees and has not done much since. As he said in a recent interview 10 teams were hiring coaches that year and we were the #10 destination. So he probably had to pass on his top choices, and ended up with Payton, which might have been Benson's call anyway. Then Payton liked Brees, and Miami doctors would not clear Brees, so we got Brees. Everything we did with Brees and Payton, winning one Superbowl in 15 years, was not that impressive. Loomis's bad tendencies have gotten worse and Harley is his lacky. Nothing about the math they do to get under the salary cap is complicated, they just reduce all the base salaries to 1 million, convert the rest to bonuses, add void year, pay out the money over 5+ years. Its simple. But it has bad consequences where we miss out on comp picks and franchise tag options on any player past their rookie contracts, and when we need to move on from an aging brittle player we can't because the cap hit is too big. We basically brought university tenure to NFL football with Andrus Peat.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,759

08-26-2023, 01:16 PM	#8
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,739	Re: Khai Harley - Assistant General Manager/Vice President of Football Operations Originally Posted by BakoSaint No I want to keep Jeff Ireland and the scouts. I want to get rid of the debt fanatics, Loomis and Harley. I am not impressed with their work to make sure Peat, Winston, Hill, Kamara, and Thomas retire as Saints. I believe that Loomis got lucky the year he brought in Payton and Brees and has not done much since. As he said in a recent interview 10 teams were hiring coaches that year and we were the #10 destination. So he probably had to pass on his top choices, and ended up with Payton, which might have been Benson's call anyway. Then Payton liked Brees, and Miami doctors would not clear Brees, so we got Brees. Everything we did with Brees and Payton, winning one Superbowl in 15 years, was not that impressive. Loomis's bad tendencies have gotten worse and Harley is his lacky. Nothing about the math they do to get under the salary cap is complicated, they just reduce all the base salaries to 1 million, convert the rest to bonuses, add void year, pay out the money over 5+ years. Its simple. But it has bad consequences where we miss out on comp picks and franchise tag options on any player past their rookie contracts, and when we need to move on from an aging brittle player we can't because the cap hit is too big. We basically brought university tenure to NFL football with Andrus Peat. That's some pretty good math Bako. Sometimes I like the way you think. I disagree about how bad our accounting principles are handled though. It has bitten us in the butt before but we've benefitted greatly from our cap structure and principles. Hey, did you notice that we actually got a couple of comp picks last year?

08-26-2023, 02:11 PM	#9
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,759	Re: Khai Harley - Assistant General Manager/Vice President of Football Operations Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II That's some pretty good math Bako. Sometimes I like the way you think. I disagree about how bad our accounting principles are handled though. It has bitten us in the butt before but we've benefitted greatly from our cap structure and principles. Hey, did you notice that we actually got a couple of comp picks last year? I did notice we got some comp picks which is good. But I fear we got them for the wrong reason. I think our finances crumbled where we lost a lot of solid young players coming off their rookie deals and were unable to get similar players from other teams to make up for it. So we did get comp picks. But we got comp picks after replacing young with old or young with journeyman, which is not good. We also may have had some cases where we traded for veterans on the last year of their deals or signed veterans for one year fill ins and didnt resign them and those could have played into comp picks. I am not sure. Players like Jackrabbit, Apple, Sanders, etc. But the more cap trouble we get into the less we can do that. Exactly how void years we frequently use play in to comp picks is not clear. I thought you did not get comp picks if the contract voided, as it was like a cut, but that may not totally be the case. Apparently void years original to the contract and automatic may not prevent a team from getting comp picks. But ones added to shorten the contract may. Void years added in restructure to artificially lengthen the contract to borrow from future salary caps I can't find a clear answer. See this discussion. I apologize if I was a little off before, its super confusing. https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comment...s_explanation/ But the void years can also mess with the ability to use franchise tags. Had we been able to tag Terron Armstead, its very possible we could have traded him for better than what we got in comp picks. But we couldn't because his void triggered after the tag window closed. It could have been structured to trigger earlier and give us the ability to tag him, but we supposedly made a 'concession' to Armstead in making it void later. But what is the truth of this 'concession' if every year we are having to restructure every big contract to sneak under the cap? Its not really a concession if agents know they have us by the balls and if their player refuses to restructure we can't get under the cap. So what is likely to happen is that every contract we restructure with void years is going to have those voids trigger late so we can't apply the franchise tag. Which means if Derek Carr does happen to be great, and thinks the Jags will pay him $80 million, he can just walk because restructures will put his void dates at times where we can't use a tag. Same with any of our other stars who restructure. https://www.yahoo.com/video/many-sai...193624552.html Overall, having to restucture every big contract every year gives too much leverage to players. They can easily demand void dates that prevent them from being tagged. They also lose next to nothing if they are suspended or hold out because their salary was converted to a bonus that is already paid and their game checks are loose change. You don't pay interest on debt in the nfl, but in a sense you do. Kamara gets three weeks off for $200,000. I wish I could get three weeks off for 1% of my salary. The Dolphins got Terron Armstead for pick 110 or something. Thats the price we pay.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,759