2-3, How bad is it?

CheramieIII · 10-09-2005, 08:31 PM

Beat Atlanta? Are you serious? If Vick Plays we lose. and I think 8-8 is being very optimistic.

TheGambler · 10-09-2005, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by CheramieIII

Are you serious?

Dead serious.

CheramieIII · 10-09-2005, 08:50 PM

I would'nt bet a plug nickle on the Saints to win anything right now. Too many bad players and coaches hanging around. Why don't you take that dead serious thing and make a bet on the Saints and see how much money that get's ya.

jonnyrotten · 10-09-2005, 09:49 PM

If Vick plays we will be lucky if THEY don't beat us WORSE than 52-3!!

CHACHING · 10-09-2005, 09:52 PM

Stop the press...
WE WIN NEXT SUNDAY!!
I don't think we could win at hopscotch right now...
(we looked like siht)

biloxi-indian · 10-09-2005, 10:02 PM

Unfortunately, the school for the Blind will beat the current roster.

Hear, See, or Smell no evil...except for the stench left in GB.

Sad, so very sad.

BrooksMustGo · 10-09-2005, 10:44 PM

[quote="JKool"]With Atlanta and Tampa Bay losing, we didn't drop back in our division. Thus, the real questions for the coaches are what can we learn from this game, and where do we go now.
quote]

Kool, as always, a pleasure to hear from you. Good to see that you have your eye on the ball, per usual.

In response to the question of "where we go now?"

1. Defensive Line -- I don't know what the problem is with the d-line. We have poured more money, effort, free agents and draft picks into this unit than any other and don't seem to be getting results. I'm at a loss to explain this. I thought the idea was to be able to a) contain scrambling QBs with the front 4 and b) generate pass rush without having to resort to blitzing. Against the Packer patchwork line, we really should have managed both of these tasks better. I cannot seriously believe that we need better players here, even though a true 2 gap guy would be nice. I'm not optimistic about the balance of our season if we can't get pass rush from the front 4. We have 11 sacks on the season so far, which is still better than Tampa's 9, but I'm not as impressed with our D as Tampa's.

2. Offensive Line, Running Game -- The running game flat our scares me. In pre-season, I was most confident in our ability to run the ball between the tackles with the addition of Mayberry and a year's experience at center for Bentley. Deuce only averaged 2.8 yds per carry today. Not acceptable. The fact is that we are putting all the pressure on AB to win with his arm and he's too streaky to count on. Without significant improvement in offensive line play soon, we are simply not going to be able to keep up with the rest of the division for a wild card berth. (Note here that I'm pretty much writing off our ability to win the division outright.) I'm disappointed in Deuce, I'm disappointed in the run blocking, and I'm disappointed with the new offensive look.

3. A-Mac -- He probably needs practice reps. I think the question with him becomes: are you ready to admit you're going to have a rebuilding year? IF the Saints want to even consider starting A-Mac, then they need to consider dealing AB right now. If we bench AB for A-Mac at midseason, we are going to kill AB's trade value. With his cap number, I think we should at least get something back from him. I guarantee you that teams like the Jets, the Fins, the Ravens, the Chiefs, the Bears and the Lions might be willing to mortgage their future for a shot at the playoffs now. Teams like the Lions, the Chiefs, the Ravens and the Jets might believe they have enough defense to deal with AB's streakiness. I believe that if you start A-Mac with AB on the roster, we have no chance of dealing him for any value at all. If we trade him before the trade deadline, fine. Otherwise, keep starting him until next year and give A-Mac lots of time in practice.

4. Linebackers -- I think we need to make a big move in free agency (and probably over-pay) for a proven commodity. We don't have any luck (or ability to evaluate college players) with the position via the draft.

5. O-Line, generally -- I want to like these guys. Either Deuce is the problem, or the run blocking is the problem.

6. Secondary -- I like where we stand at safety too. We probably need to draft a 1st rounder at CB to be serious about the position. Problem is we seem to have a lot of 1st round needs. I'm not sure where we get a quality CB in the offseason. Woodson will be available, but he hasn't impressed me at all over the past couple of years.

7. Wide Receivers -- Is it the passes or the drops? Is it the route running? The only guy we can really count on is Horn. I agree, we have to get the ones that hit us in the numbers.

8. Katrina -- I don't get it, we've always been a better road team anyway. I didn't really expect us to be at THAT much of a disadvantage this season. I'd think that not being boo'ed would only help AB. Granted it is a HUGE distraction for guys who have built a life in New Orleans, but this is the same kind of play we've seen from them for 5 years now.

Given the rate of recovery, I think it's likely that the Saints won't be back in NO next season either. I'd be open to purging the coaching/front office staff and most of the veteran players and do a full rebuild. Make a good clean break with the past. Not what anyone wants to hear, but I've recently begun to believe that we are suffering systemic problems. i.e., I'm not sure that fixing the d-line makes us a playoff contender, or getting 3 quality LB's makes us a playoff contender. I'm beginning to wonder if somehow the blend of people we have brings out the worst in each of them and keeps them from playing well?

ScottyRo · 10-10-2005, 12:48 AM

I don't think there is much wrong with the d-line. The run D is suffereing because our LBs are beyond bad. Watch monday night and pay attention to who is making the stops on running plays and where. You'll see LBs making plays at the LOS rather than 5 yards downfield like our lackeys.

As far as o-line, I still have to believe that they're not getting it done. Deuce was dropped fur yards in the backfield on a play when he ran straight ahead. How does that happen with a good o-line?

Carney needs to be cut this week. There are plenty of kickers out there that we can sign that can miss as many as he has missed...maybe more.

SapperSaint · 10-10-2005, 03:16 AM

WIN AGAINST ATLANTA!!! ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?!?!?!?!?!?

Atlanta almost beat NE with the backup QB. BEAT ATLANTA?!?!?!?!?

We let Farve run wild on us and the offense managed to sqweek out THREE FRICKIN POINTS!

BEAT ATLANTA???!!!????!!!!????!!!???!?!?!?!?!?!?

I know we are beyond insane for being SAINTS fans, but I don't know what to call this.

BEAT ATLANTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAKE UP, THIS TEAM SUCKS B@LLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JKool · 10-10-2005, 11:26 AM

BMG and Scotty,

Thanks for your replies.

Scotty, I hadn't considered Carney, but I agree. If you miss two 43 yarders in the NFL, it is time to hang it up. I suppose, it is likely that I'm overrating our OLine, but they are so much better than last year, and have so much more upside - perhaps I just got over excited about them.

BMG, I think we're agreeing on all the details. I also like your view on the AB/A-Mac situation. I don't think we'll get anything for AB either way, but I respect your thoughts on this. Oddly, we disagree on what is to be done, in terms of scratching many aspects of the team, but perhaps a few more games and discussions will bring us together on that.

Good to hear from you guys too!

10-09-2005, 08:44 PM	#12
TheGambler 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 610	Originally Posted by CheramieIII Are you serious? Dead serious.
TheGambler 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 610

10-09-2005, 10:44 PM	#17
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Re: 2-3, How bad is it? [quote="JKool"]With Atlanta and Tampa Bay losing, we didn't drop back in our division. Thus, the real questions for the coaches are what can we learn from this game, and where do we go now. quote] Kool, as always, a pleasure to hear from you. Good to see that you have your eye on the ball, per usual. In response to the question of "where we go now?" 1. Defensive Line -- I don't know what the problem is with the d-line. We have poured more money, effort, free agents and draft picks into this unit than any other and don't seem to be getting results. I'm at a loss to explain this. I thought the idea was to be able to a) contain scrambling QBs with the front 4 and b) generate pass rush without having to resort to blitzing. Against the Packer patchwork line, we really should have managed both of these tasks better. I cannot seriously believe that we need better players here, even though a true 2 gap guy would be nice. I'm not optimistic about the balance of our season if we can't get pass rush from the front 4. We have 11 sacks on the season so far, which is still better than Tampa's 9, but I'm not as impressed with our D as Tampa's. 2. Offensive Line, Running Game -- The running game flat our scares me. In pre-season, I was most confident in our ability to run the ball between the tackles with the addition of Mayberry and a year's experience at center for Bentley. Deuce only averaged 2.8 yds per carry today. Not acceptable. The fact is that we are putting all the pressure on AB to win with his arm and he's too streaky to count on. Without significant improvement in offensive line play soon, we are simply not going to be able to keep up with the rest of the division for a wild card berth. (Note here that I'm pretty much writing off our ability to win the division outright.) I'm disappointed in Deuce, I'm disappointed in the run blocking, and I'm disappointed with the new offensive look. 3. A-Mac -- He probably needs practice reps. I think the question with him becomes: are you ready to admit you're going to have a rebuilding year? IF the Saints want to even consider starting A-Mac, then they need to consider dealing AB right now. If we bench AB for A-Mac at midseason, we are going to kill AB's trade value. With his cap number, I think we should at least get something back from him. I guarantee you that teams like the Jets, the Fins, the Ravens, the Chiefs, the Bears and the Lions might be willing to mortgage their future for a shot at the playoffs now. Teams like the Lions, the Chiefs, the Ravens and the Jets might believe they have enough defense to deal with AB's streakiness. I believe that if you start A-Mac with AB on the roster, we have no chance of dealing him for any value at all. If we trade him before the trade deadline, fine. Otherwise, keep starting him until next year and give A-Mac lots of time in practice. 4. Linebackers -- I think we need to make a big move in free agency (and probably over-pay) for a proven commodity. We don't have any luck (or ability to evaluate college players) with the position via the draft. 5. O-Line, generally -- I want to like these guys. Either Deuce is the problem, or the run blocking is the problem. 6. Secondary -- I like where we stand at safety too. We probably need to draft a 1st rounder at CB to be serious about the position. Problem is we seem to have a lot of 1st round needs. I'm not sure where we get a quality CB in the offseason. Woodson will be available, but he hasn't impressed me at all over the past couple of years. 7. Wide Receivers -- Is it the passes or the drops? Is it the route running? The only guy we can really count on is Horn. I agree, we have to get the ones that hit us in the numbers. 8. Katrina -- I don't get it, we've always been a better road team anyway. I didn't really expect us to be at THAT much of a disadvantage this season. I'd think that not being boo'ed would only help AB. Granted it is a HUGE distraction for guys who have built a life in New Orleans, but this is the same kind of play we've seen from them for 5 years now. Given the rate of recovery, I think it's likely that the Saints won't be back in NO next season either. I'd be open to purging the coaching/front office staff and most of the veteran players and do a full rebuild. Make a good clean break with the past. Not what anyone wants to hear, but I've recently begun to believe that we are suffering systemic problems. i.e., I'm not sure that fixing the d-line makes us a playoff contender, or getting 3 quality LB's makes us a playoff contender. I'm beginning to wonder if somehow the blend of people we have brings out the worst in each of them and keeps them from playing well?

10-10-2005, 12:48 AM	#18
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	RE: Re: 2-3, How bad is it? I don't think there is much wrong with the d-line. The run D is suffereing because our LBs are beyond bad. Watch monday night and pay attention to who is making the stops on running plays and where. You'll see LBs making plays at the LOS rather than 5 yards downfield like our lackeys. As far as o-line, I still have to believe that they're not getting it done. Deuce was dropped fur yards in the backfield on a play when he ran straight ahead. How does that happen with a good o-line? Carney needs to be cut this week. There are plenty of kickers out there that we can sign that can miss as many as he has missed...maybe more.

10-10-2005, 03:16 AM	#19
SapperSaint Pink Nightmare Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 3,028 Blog Entries: 7	RE: Re: 2-3, How bad is it? WIN AGAINST ATLANTA!!! ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?!?!?!?!?!? Atlanta almost beat NE with the backup QB. BEAT ATLANTA?!?!?!?!? We let Farve run wild on us and the offense managed to sqweek out THREE FRICKIN POINTS! BEAT ATLANTA???!!!????!!!!????!!!???!?!?!?!?!?!? I know we are beyond insane for being SAINTS fans, but I don't know what to call this. BEAT ATLANTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAKE UP, THIS TEAM SUCKS B@LLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10-10-2005, 11:26 AM	#20
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	RE: Re: 2-3, How bad is it? BMG and Scotty, Thanks for your replies. Scotty, I hadn't considered Carney, but I agree. If you miss two 43 yarders in the NFL, it is time to hang it up. I suppose, it is likely that I'm overrating our OLine, but they are so much better than last year, and have so much more upside - perhaps I just got over excited about them. BMG, I think we're agreeing on all the details. I also like your view on the AB/A-Mac situation. I don't think we'll get anything for AB either way, but I respect your thoughts on this. Oddly, we disagree on what is to be done, in terms of scratching many aspects of the team, but perhaps a few more games and discussions will bring us together on that. Good to hear from you guys too!
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

10-09-2005, 08:31 PM	#11
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	Beat Atlanta? Are you serious? If Vick Plays we lose. and I think 8-8 is being very optimistic.

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10-09-2005, 08:50 PM	#13
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	I would'nt bet a plug nickle on the Saints to win anything right now. Too many bad players and coaches hanging around. Why don't you take that dead serious thing and make a bet on the Saints and see how much money that get's ya.

10-09-2005, 09:49 PM	#14
jonnyrotten 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Nashville Posts: 511	If Vick plays we will be lucky if THEY don't beat us WORSE than 52-3!!

10-09-2005, 09:52 PM	#15
CHACHING 500th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Golden State Posts: 830	Stop the press... WE WIN NEXT SUNDAY!! I don't think we could win at hopscotch right now... (we looked like siht)

10-09-2005, 10:02 PM	#16
biloxi-indian Site Donor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southlake, TX Posts: 1,706	Unfortunately, the school for the Blind will beat the current roster. Hear, See, or Smell no evil...except for the stench left in GB. Sad, so very sad.