Question for the Forum
 

How many times in Saints history has the head coach been fired during the season?

I know Ditka was fired but IIRC it was after the season was over.

Re: Question for the Forum
 

Three times. None of them under the Bensons.

1970 - Tom Fears > J.D. Roberts

1975 - John North > Ernie Hefferle

1980 - Dick Nolan > Dick Stanfel

Jim Mora and Bum Phillips both resigned during the season.

Re: Question for the Forum
 

I don't think it ever happened during the Benson era, Mora resigned during the season but did not get fired. During the Mecom era Phillips resigned during the season, Fears was fired during the season, Roberts fired during the preseason, John North fired during the season, Nolan fired during the season.

Re: Question for the Forum
 

The question always asked by the smart football people out there is who do you propose to fill the role? As a GM you'd better have someone definite in mind or your ass is going to be gone, as well. That's why it so rarely happens in the NFL.

Re: Question for the Forum
 

It might be best if DA took an extended leave of absence.......

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Just don’t think they will fire Allen during the season. But his decision to bring Carmichael back as the OC and not replacing him in a timely fashion will in the end costing both of them the jobs.

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THIS would definitely be the Season.

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Unless the bottom completely falls out, Allen is safe. Matter of fact, if he can get this team to 9 wins he may be considered a genius. That offense is a complete train wreck and needs a complete rebuild, starting from the coaches on down to the players.

Re: Question for the Forum
 

https://blackandgold.com/data:image/...RdzTJJIMP/2Q==https://media4.giphy.com/media/SZhJr...7cRL/giphy.gif

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No thank you to any complete rebuild. That's fine for fans at home that are either not vested or not invested in the team and can stomach multiple years of guaranteed losing carrying the hope that what is on the other side is any better than what we have today.

But those of us firmly vested and actually invested (season ticket holders) would want the team to remain competitive and continue to add pieces necessary to at least keep the hope alive. It's a hard sell to have people wanting to spend good money on tickets, transportation, lodgings, and food knowing that the team has essentially folded the tent and are hoping for a new reveal three or years from now. That doesn't make good business sense.

The offense isn't anywhere near being a total train wreck. We have a banged up offensive line (again) and are experiencing extremely questionable offensive playcalling. There's nothing wrong with the vast majority of the talent however. Those other things are correctible. Whether they'll be corrected or not is another story

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I believe that might bring more than a little pushback from the league given they are currently being sued by Chuckie himself.

;) :D

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Why rebuild when we have one of the most talent laden rosters in the NFL?
It ain't the Billys and Joes, its the X's and O's!

Give Andy Reid this same exact team and we're in the NFCCG. We have the talent to win big, but the coaching... not so much.

Re: Question for the Forum
 

I’m fine keeping Allen for the remainder of the season. We can let him go at the end of the year. Pete Carmichael needs to go now. Elevate Ronald Curry or bring in Byron Leftwich. In transparency, bringing in a Black offensive coordinator would boost the morale of most of the leaders on this team (Kamara, Thomas, Jordan, etc.), but any change at all would be a good thing. I’d be fine with Jon Gruden as well.

Re: Question for the Forum
 

I'd be fine keeping Allen if he brought in a good OC. Let Allen run the defense and let his new OC have total control over the offense. I'd be OK with that.

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Leftwich would be my pick. He's ready to run it.

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I'd be fine trying Curry out. Carmichael ain't it.

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I tend to agree.

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This team has too much talent to have a .500 record. That comes down to coaching. Pete is the problem. Allen is unwilling or unable to fix the problem. I would pull the trigger if the Saints aren't two games above .500 at the break.

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O had the Saints at 9-10 wins during the offseason. Since week 2 I have them at 6-8 wins

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PC definitely needs to go. No if ands or buts. Week in and week out he has failed to produce. This offense is way to talented

Re: Question for the Forum
 

Removing PC from play calling is a first step, only because that is the about the only thing that can be changed at this point in the season. The Saints have some talent, but a lot of issues too. The QB situation is the worst in the NFC South and will need to be addressed again for the 2024 season. The LT position has mostly failed and that too will need to be addressed in 2024. The most reliable performers are getting old by NFL standards and showing signs their best years are behind them. Guys, I hate to say it, but I will say it again, this side of the ball needs a complete rebuild. Start by drafting a potential franchise QB and go from there.

Re: Question for the Forum
 

I definitely think DA makes it to the end of the year. I would like to see a change at OC and please, please please... DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE OFFENSIVE LINE!!

I think some better play calling and anything remotely resembling stability on the O-Line and this team is much improved.

Re: Question for the Forum
 

PC’s game planning, offensive scheme, play design and play calling has to end. If you must keep him and put him in charge of charging the tablets.

The current offensive line play just adds an another layer to the offensive woes bring so many questions cause and responsibility into play.

With these two critical components of the offense failing week after week it’s really hard to make an up or down calling on the offensive skill positions. No run blocking, no pass protection, predicable play calling and poor play design how can anyone expect the offensive to succeed or to accurately gage individual skill positions performance.

Our defense is well coached, the play shows it, special teams are well coached the play shows it. That absolutely cannot be said about the offense on all levels. Allen being a defensive guy his entire career has nothing to offer or contribute that can help offense except coach speak.

There leaves little doubt during the Payton years PC might have help in designing plays but Payton’s aggressive and assertive nature and feel for the ebb and flow of the game influenced his play calling. All these ingredients were the secret sauce that supported Brees and the offense.

This current Saints Offensive Wizard has no clothes or secret sauce.

Will be at the game pulling for the Saints … WhoDat67 :bng:

Re: Question for the Forum
 

As of today, you have Penning at LT, Eric @ C. I assume Ruiz is at RG because he was terrible (never played the position) against the Texas at RT.

After that it's dicey. Ryan probably won't pass concussion protocol, Landon Young is inexperienced/hurt & James Hurst is probably out with an ankle .

Then there is Peat. You can't count on him to play, ever.

If you are beat up in the trenches, it's even more difficult for your QB. Especially considering DCarr holds on to the ball so long.

We'll need a double dose of TEs in this one. Not even sure if Juwan plays on Thursday. One would think Cam Irving is elevated on game day.

The lack of quality depth (OL) will do you in.

Re: Question for the Forum
 

Let the water boy coach! Same result less 🐂💩!!!

Re: Question for the Forum
 

A complete rebuild is not guaranteed losing. Also a complete rebuild is impossible because if we cut all our expensive veterans in one year, which would be what one might think of as a complete rebuild, we would exceed the salary cap with all the dead money that would hit and have no way to get under it. If you are interested I can show you the math. We can actually get to about $40 million under the 2024 salary cap but if we cut Carr that would cost $40 million in one year dead money relative to the restructure, so we could not for example cut Carr and trade Lattimore and Jordan, the the math can't work to get under the cap with that. What we could do is start a process of letting go some expensive veterans now and taking some cap hits in the short term for cap relief long term, then continuing the process next year to the degree it makes sense based on 2024 results and player performances.

What this might look like is moving on from 3-4 players from a list like Thomas, Hill, Kamara, Peat, Mathieu, or Davis either via trade or release depending on the situation. Or maybe even trading Lattimore given that we have several promising young corners and it would be unusual for his performance or health not to decline in the next 2 years.

The reason this is not guaranteed losing is that sometimes youth movements work, and what we are doing now is not working. Tampa Bay moved on from a number of veterans this offseason and went with discount options and they are 3-2. Atlanta has moved on from many veterans over the last few years even taking costly cap hits to do it and is 3-3 the same as us. Arizona was accused of tanking and although they are 1-5 if you look at their schedule and ours, honestly they are playing just as well as us this year but have a much harder schedule and its hard to say the records would not be reversed if the schedules were. The LA Rams made a bunch of cap cuts and rebuilt this offseason moving on from Jalen Ramsey, Bobby Wagner, and Allen Robinson among others. They have also been largely without Cooper Kupp. They are 3-3 despite a much tougher schedule than ours and definite contenders. Last year the Panthers moved on from Christian McCafferey mid season and still ended up with the same record as us. This year the Panthers are in the tank, but not significantly moreso than the Bears who acquired the biggest player the Panthers traded away in the offseason, or the Giants or Broncos who went all in to win with pricey acquisitions like Waller or Wilson/Payton. The Packers are 2-3 but beat us and play in a harder division and they moved on from Davante Adams and Aaron Rodgers and are just as competitive as us. The Lions let Matthew Stafford and all their veteran receivers go and traded their high 1st round pick TE and they are looking like a top team. The Raiders let both Carr and Waller go, again same record as us. Last season the Kansas City Chiefs traded Tyreek Hill and let Tyrann Mathieu walk, and they won a ring. The Texans have the same record as us and just beat us after trading away pretty much all their stars and going with a youth movement. Seattle traded away Russ Wilson and their backup did better. Even the 49ers and Eagles got where they are partly by cutting expensive QBs and relying on young unproven ones. Rebuilding isn't a guarantee of losing. Sometimes the kids are good. Maybe Yiadom doesn't shut down Mike Evans on Monday Night Football, but maybe he does shut down less famous receivers on Sunday afternoon in the 4th quarter. Maybe a cheap QB option like Baker Mayfield beats an expensive one like Derek Carr. You still have to play the games even if you don't spend money like its going out of style. Sometimes holding on to every single veteran you possibly can because its cheaper on a 1 year basis to restructure over and over every year is not the recipe to win it all.

While it doesn't guarantee losing, rebuilding does guarantee new opportunities. Moving on from veterans means acquiring draft picks and having more roster spots to give young players a chance. It also frees up cap space after the first year to make big moves when you are within reach of the title and opportunistically add players after draft/cuts or at the trade deadline.