Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

We need a new Head Coach.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

I wonder what Andy Reid could do with this team? Or even Payton?

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

Nothing, because Dennis Allen AINT goin nowhere.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

I wonder what Tom would do were he alive, or Gayle if she watched the games. :bng:

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

Some hate to hear the truth from Matt Moscona.
And I agree on his points regarding Carr & the Saints defense. It's average at best.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

I see Carmichael's biggest issue is trying too hard the diversify the offense thinking he has to use all of his players, especially at RB. Perhaps it's his script. A perfect example was our first possession of the 2nd half.

1st & 10 Kamara off left tackle for 7 yards
2nd & 3 Jamaal Williams off right guard for 2 yards
3rd & 1 Jamaal Williams (again) up the middle for no gain
4th & 1 we are forced to punt

What the hell? Feed the ball to Kamara as long as he's moving it. We just came out of the halftime and Kamara is fresh. What's the point of bringing in Jamaal at that point? Carmichael far too often abandons what is working to stick to some sort of script at the beginning of games and the second half. I can see scripting until you find a successful tendency at the beginning of games, but use what you learn. Be flexible.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

Carmichael makes everything harder than it really is. If this team had any sense he'd be fired during the bye and you'd see him ringing the Salvation Army bell at Wal Mart in a few weeks. And he'd probably turn that into a debacle too.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

Notice how the Bills aren't scared to make a coaching change when they see an issue with their offense.

Dennis Allen is happy with the team being mediocre so he can just continue saying "we need to be better"

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

This here ...

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

See, the problem is that you’re talking to Fans, when you should be talking to Ownership, by cancelling your subscription to season tickets until this broken mess is fixed.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

It took me 15 years on a waiting list to get season tickets. There ain't no way in Hell I'm cancelling them and moving to the back of the line again even if I wanted. And I'll guarantee you that the vast majority of season ticket holders feel the same way. A good percentage of them have had their tickets for decades. Through winning and losing. If you'd gone through what we went through to finally get our tickets you'd feel the same way.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

In the last year and a half, the Saints have looked terrible.

Barring any post-season run (with this roster & QB :o just "getting there" isn't good enough), the front office needs to say enough is enough.

10 games in the books, we have yet to defeat a contender/team headed for the postseason. Only bottom feeders & we're 5 & 5? Wow.

Olave and Carr have zero chemistry. Jamaal was a baller in Detroit last season, but here ... outside of the injury, he's been mid. Taysom isn't even given opportunities to help when you need a big play.

Such a boring offense to watch with Allen and Carmichael.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

No I wouldn’t. I don’t.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

The whole sell out era was built on mass house cleaning firings. The sell outs started in 2006, and coming back from Katrina was part of the excitement, but moving on from Haslett and Brooks was the biggest part. You could not give away tickets in Baton Rouge to watch those jokers lose. For many in New Orleans, the waters did not recede until Haslett's office was boxed up and his insufferable excuses about just needing to execute a little better and how the ball didnt bounce our way and if you just didnt have such and such mistake or how we would commit slightly more to the run or open up the offense slightly more after he watched the tape were finally over for good. Had we trotted out Haslett and Brooks again in 2006, New Orleans would have found some other way to celebrate the resurgence of the city that did not involve the Saints. So if you think we will always sell out because we sold out for 15 years and fans will fear a wait list, I say that if there is one way to stop selling out season tickets, it is to return to the conditions we had before we sold out, to come full circle with another Jim Haslett and another Aaron Brooks. Some fans will hold onto tickets a couple more years with FOMO due to the long wait lists of the 2000-2010's, but in the long run the only surefire way to burn those fans loyalty is to undo the the thing that gained their loyalty in the first place, being willing to fire lousy coaches and overrated players.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

It's easy to think that way for anyone that doesn't hold season tickets. It's like the unemployed person that tells the guy with a job to quit to make a point.

How many games do you attend on an annual basis?

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

What is clear is that season tickets mean more to those of us that hold them than does those that do do not for whatever reason. You cannot say with any certainty what you would do had you waited impatiently for 15 years to finally get those tickets.

Even as forlorn as you envision our Saints today, there's no reason to expect them to be as bad as you imagine for the next decade or more to come. If we were to give up our tickets as some sort of protest we may not be alive when the next opportunity to get them back arises.

Look back at the 1980 season when Buddy "D" called upon fans to boycott the games or in other words forfeit their game tickets. The fans refused en masse. It was then that Buddy "D" proposed the wearing of bags instead. Win or lose those ticket holders valued their seats too much to give them up. It's the very same now.

It is so easy give up something you do not have personally to hope to make a point. :rolleyes:

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

Then “Just keep doing what you’re doing”.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

Given the fact is that there is nothing either you or I can do personally that will affect the success or failure of the Saints I will gladly keep doing what I'm doing. I am impressed that you finally understand.

:beer:

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

Given the fact that you value your season tickets more than AFFECTING CHANGE through NON PARTICIPATION, your masochism and Stockholm syndrome fail to impress… woefully.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

I get it if you judge their entire tenure including results during COVID. Nobody could have done anything with the team affected as they were that year. That's also the year that Hill had a couple of starts behind an oline that started more players than any other team due to illness and injury - and by which he is mostly judged. For me ... the jury is still out. This years woes have been oline (which has improved) and penalties at inopportune times. I like the hustle i've seen from most players. ADEBO has played lights out as has Kamara and Hill and Shaheed and..... Carr has improved ... and the list of positives is too long to list. I think they just needed playing time together. Criticised limited play in preseason. Olave has had something going on until last game produced somewhat. Drew had a slow start to his career in N.O. too. It took the GOAT awhile. I'm good with where Carr is. Again if the TEAM holds it together and stops the penalties - super optimism.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

Uhh... no. a fool and his money are soon parted. :beatnik:

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

Improved? That's a stretch. He's been below average at best.

So far he is the king of check downs & is still missing OPEN WR's.

And folks need to stop it with the Carr to Brees comparisions. Drew didn't have a "slow start" to his career in New Orleans. He went 10-6, won the south, won the divisonal rd vs Philly & was one win short of a Super Bowl berth (lost to the Bears) .. all in his very first season in New Orleans.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

It think Carr is leaning over that QB cliff with a strong wind at his back.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

LOL!!! You are so disconnected, dude. My season tickets are infinitely more valuable to me after 15 years than any unrealistic dream of yours that by forfeiting them I could have any affect on the decision making of the Saints' management.

You are so out of shift with reality that it is comical. LOL!!!

You need to figure out something that YOU can do, if you are so committed, that will have some sort of impact. Give up begging those of us that have what you don't to fight your battle against those imagined windmills.

:D

https://collectionapi.metmuseum.org/...646/main-image

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

You don’t understand the “reality” of basic Business. Economics. Supply and Demand. You either boycott a sh*t product, and the owner is forced to do whatever it takes to win back Customer Loyalty though Customer Satisfaction, or you remain satisfied with a sh*t product, and the owner (and management) will continue to get paid (YOUR MONEY) to deliver more sh*t. You don’t have to be an idiot and a masochist, to remain a Fan. You can DEMAND to be satisfied with your team’s performance, unless you’re an idiot and a masochist. You actually have way more (purchasing) power than you give yourself credit for.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

Oh yeah… and WE NEED A NEW HEAD COACH… like, LAST YEAR.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

You've been muted again, Sinner. Live in your own little world. :D


Edit: Or maybe that should be Alonso. LOL!!!

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

“Ohhhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyyy”

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

I had season tickets for over 20 years. I moved across the country but my dad is still in New Orleans. I moved to Houston after about 10 years as a season ticket holder but my dad was still in New Orleans and I still kept the tickets and I flew or drove in for most of the games. When I moved to California after 4 years in Houston we kept the tickets for some 7 more years and I flew back for games when I could, my dad went to some games, we gave some to friends and family, and we sold some. I was in the dome for the No Call game. After that crushing BS, and having a kid where it got harder to travel, and the Saints struggles that made it harder to sell the tickets to games none of us could attend, we finally decided to drop the tickets. My dad was getting older and often preferred to avoid the cars and traffic and just watch on his big screen, and it was so hard for me to travel much with a young child who had grandparents in 3 different states. It became easier for me to just buy tickets to a game if we visited.

I know what its like to have season tickets. I just didn't wait 15 years for them. I walked up with a credit card when we were talking about drafting Ricky Williams and Ditka was coach. I stayed until Goodell proved it was half rigged anyway. There are a lot of fans whose patience with Dennis Allen may be limited, and at some point if he is the next Ditka, there will be no waiting list and they will be able to walk back up and buy tickets when he is fired.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

There's still a huge waiting list. Everyone should know success is cyclical. The list was 50,000 long when we joined. It's still quite long from the last I heard. Tens of thousands of ticket hopeful aren't going to drop out just because of yours and Alonso's hatred of Dennis Allen. The days of walking up with a credit card and getting them just like that are history.

Think of another way to battle that fictional enemy. ;)

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

See, what you describe as a fictional enemy, is a mismanaged and poorly coached team that performs so unsatisfactorily, they might be the only team in the history of the game that could lead a division in such an unsatisfactory and unsavory manner, that loyal fans could be feeling so yucky at this point. The fact that you enjoy this so much, speaks volumes to your masochism. The fact that you see it as fictional, speaks volumes about your disconnection from reality.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

What does it cost to join the waiting list? I am guessing nothing, or a trivial amount. Its basically a free option until they call and say your up, what's your credit card number. There is probably no reason for various scalpers or whoever not to join the waiting list. Heck maybe I should join it. Worst case, they call in 5 years when Dennis Allen is still head coach and is setting all time loss records and I hang up and then a week later add my name back to the end of the list. Best case, they call the day after Arch Manning leads us to a perfect season and I fly in for 4 games and sell the other 5 games to pay for the flights and season tickets. The point is, there is no reason not to be on a waiting list, its basically free, and it just gives you options. But the problem comes if we suck and they call their way through the list and can't sell all the seasons. Then there is no waiting list. And then when you call to say put down my name, they say ok give us a credit card and we charge $5000 today. Most fans and all scalpers will say no. Certain better value seat locations will sell, but lousier ones will go unsold. Suddenly there is no list.

Imagine we win the division at 9-8 this year but get blown out 38-3 by the Cowboys at home in the first round. Then retain Dennis Allen and play a first place schedule next year including playing the entire NFC North and go 5-12 but decide to retain Dennis Allen while bringing elevating Curry to OC for 2025. You could easily start seeing 5,000 people a year cancelling their season tickets and only 1 in 5 dropping the credit card down when they get the call on the wait list. Suddenly that wait list is gone quick even if it is 50,000. And also, what if 1/2 or 2/3 of the waiting list is scalpers? Suddenly it could only be 1 of 10 or 15 who drop the credit card when there is no profit to be made, and the waiting list is gone quick.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

FYI for reference I looked it up and it appears both the Falcons and Panthers do not currently have a wait list for season tickets. Panthers PSL's can be bought from third party at a discount. The Bucs did not have a wait list before they brought in Brady, then they built up a wait list. But under Brady they required fans to make a 2 year commitment to get new season tickets, so many fans who signed up in 2022 could not cancel this offseason and will likely be gone after this year. Wait lists come and go. Ours was built on Brees and Paytons sustained success. As long as we are just another NFC South mediocre team, we should not expect our wait list will last when others didn't. Its not like New Orleans is some giant market with all the fortune 500 companies. There is no wait list for Pelicans tickets. If we don't win, we are just the Pelicans.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

Scalpers definitely make up a sizable portion of the season ticket base. That's one reason why it remains so difficult to get season tickets. Those third party season ticket holders market mainly to visiting fans. There are large sections every home game that are always filled by opposing fans. They are also dispersed through the dome. It doesn't matter how good or how bad Saints happen to be, the fans from other regions still show up in droves. Unlike Carolina, Tampa, and especially Atlanta, New Orleans is a very hot tourist destination. The Quarter is always packed by opposing fans. New Orleans routinely ranks at the very top of the list for away game destinations.

If season tickets are dropped those scalpers you mention will readily swoop them up since, as pointed out, they are in the same waiting list as fans. The point is the demand is still there for the season tickets regardless of how the Saints are performing.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

Guido makes some very good points about the waiting list. If I can get tickets to a game then I'm going! Win or lose I'll be cheering for my Saints! :bng:

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

I guess there are different types of “fans” as there are different types of people in general, and that’s a good thing. We all have different and unique perspectives. I can totally cheer for my Saints (TO WIN) without giving my hard earned money away to an organization of mismanaged millionaires, at least until they can manage to produce a quality product that is thrilling and entertaining. Quido seems to be thrilled and entertained during some of the most dismal and disappointing cycles of our team’s performance, and is proud and happy to pay for the privilege. He feels that a “Boycott” or financial show of disapproval would have no effect on our team’s management making adjustments to win back Fan Loyalty and Customer Satisfaction. We simply see things differently.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

I’ve not been able to attend the last 2 home games and the remaining schedule of home games is uncertain. But to add too AG’s point there is a long list of family, friends and ticket seakers so the seats wont be empty.

These tickets have been in the family since 75. My Father passed them on to a cousin in the late 80 with the understanding they would revert back to me after I returned from overseas.

I will probably transfer them to my son in the near future. Don’t think people will be giving up tickets based on the teams recent performance. Personally I think there needs to been a clean sweep of the coaching staff. There is a large enough sample size to leave little doubt where the nexus of the Saints problems lie. We donot have to like it but we as fans have llittle to no ability to affect those decisions … rant as may.

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

Next year's schedule is going to be pretty brutal. It's the AFC West and the NFC East. In addition the 17th game is the AFC North. Presume that we win the South, that will guarantee the first place finishers in the NFC and the AFC North along with those two divisions.

And as of this second it would be the Seahawks in the playoffs, not the Cowgirls.

SFIAH

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

You are fortunate to have had your tickets all of these years, WW. I'm hoping I can start a legacy like your family has enjoyed all of these years.

:bng:

Re: OBSERVATIONS FROM THE SAINTS LOSS TO VIKINGS (Halftime Edition)
 

There are different perspectives to look at this. I won't argue that New Orleans is a popular tourist destination. But its also very popular with a lot of international tourists who don't care about football. For domestic tourists who do care about football, its not a given that they will buy tickets for enough money that scalpers profit. Thats why season tickets were not sold out in the Ditka and Haslett years. It's not that New Orleans was not an attractive travel destination, its that watching Heath Shuler, Danny Wuerffel, Aaron Brooks, Kerry Collins, or Todd Bouman was not how tourists wanted to spend their time in New Orleans. And if they did decide to catch the game, they were looking for a bargain, not getting into a frenzy to bid up to $500 for the once in a lifetime chance to see Danny Wuerffel light up his home field. Sean Payton and Drew Brees made a Saints road game compelling.

Now lets say the Steelers come to New Orleans a year or two down the road. Will some Pittsburgh fans decide that makes a good trip? Perhaps. But if the Saints are in the gutter and Derek Carr is looking like Colts Matt Ryan, that will make it less compelling. They will be less likely to go to the game, and less likely to be willing to pay a lot for the ticket. And even if 2/3rds will still want to go, removing 1/3rd of the bidders on StubHub might cut the market for the tickets drastically. And also you will have less Saints fans bidding on those tickets too. Inventories will soar, prices will fall, and tickets will sell for less than they used to, and fans will get used to paying less.

But Pittsburgh is a good team so even if a ticket sells for $300 not $500 the scalpers may still make money on that game. The problem is, making money in total with all the games. Scalpers have to buy all the tickets, and it used to be that all the tickets features Drew Brees. Now some of the tickets are Carr vs Mayfield or Carr vs Ridder. And they have to buy 1-2 preseason games where the tickets are hard to give away. And then if we are in Ditka/Haslett mode with DA, how many Atlanta, Carolina, and Tampa fans are going to want to come to New Orleans and pay top dollar for tickets to watch a crappy game? If the Saints are bad, and especially if other division teams are bad too which is the case now, scalpers stand to lose money on a lot of games. Sure, they might make money on a few big games, but not as much money if the Saints are bad, the games are less compelling, and you dont have locals without season tickets bidding for those games too. But then they may lose money on a lot of games too with preseason, meaningless week 16-17 games, boring division matchups between two bad teams that play here every year, etc.

And stubhub etc take high fees. To make money on tickets you really need to be able to sell like 4+ tickets a year for twice what you paid and at least sell everything but preason for face value or better. It's very possible for scalpers to lose a lot of money reselling tickets if they have expensive tickets for a bad team without a marquee star. Many ticket holders may be scalpers, much of the waiting list may be scalpers, and they will all flee if they start losing money. So actually, scalpers are a big reason season tickets could fall off a cliff and not be sold out.

I got season tickets when I lived in New Orleans and didn't want to give them up when I moved away so I know how it is. I sold many tickets for awhile so I could afford to keep the season tickets and go to a few games. But over time it got harder. Certain sections can be underpriced and amount to printing money when the team is good, but then price adjustments can come out of the blue and double the price of an underpriced ticket. I am not sure of the exact figures but it seems like a lot of ticket selling sites take a lot of the money, or list your ticket for more than you actually get so if you list for $150 they may show the ticket as $175. And if its a bad game, its hard to break even. And preseason it can be hard to give away or sell for $20. Its also a hassle to list the tickets. Some scalpers may already be losing money, but being close enough to breaking even that they are holding on with the memories of past profits. If we keep DA and the team really gets in the gutter, they may take big losses and drop out.

The Pelicans also play in New Orleans. Tourism is very similar around their adjacent stadiums. But the Pelicans don't sell out, because they don't have a reputation as a marquee franchise with a marquee star everyone wants to see. If the Saints keep losing and Pelicans start winning, the scalpers will get Pelicans season tickets.

Ultimately the best thing we can do to have more home support is win. Our fans will show up and be loud is we win and a few road fans wont matter. If we lose, less of our fans will show up, and we will be like the Washington Generals for road fans to watch their team destroy, even if those road fans happen to get their tickets even cheaper directly from the box office because we are not sold out. We can't not be a tourist destination, but lots of other teams play in good tourist destinations too, and many of them win.

For an example of how scalpers can lose money, look at the Panthers at Saints game on 12/10. Plenty of upper level tickets starting at $35. Plenty of plaza tickets starting at $100. Figure Stubhub is taking at least 15%. And the lowest priced tickets are priced to sell whille higher price are holding out hope for increased demand. Probably more likely demand plummets the way the two teams are playing and prices fall further.