Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

My worry is that the ends justify the means and the team believes the surgery was successful and is optimistic (PR line) because they can't afford for it not to be. They believed Michael Thomas was coming back at full strength 4 years in a row, and he weighed half as much and nobody was throwing the word degenerative around, but the cap ramifications were similar so the optimistic news leaks before every restructure and extension were similar. I guess we all have different trust thresholds and my trust threshold for optimistic injury updates during restructure season has been expended.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Well, at least YOU care about what you think.

;)

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Only doing a limited restructure on Cam's contract, but still freeing up an additional $1.5 million.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

That $300 million cap figure in 2026 is something I've heard elsewhere. It can reach that quite easily.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Almost there and we should have plenty left over for spending money. Let's get some impact free agents!

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

We are about to go into free agency and I have a strong feeling that we'll invest in a DE and OT in the first week to shore up the trenches.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Wait the Saints did something responsible? Nope, it was a typo, they max restructured. They should also correct the Khai Hartley quote to ‘just because you can do something does mean you should.’

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Like I said in another post, I'd like to see us spend on a DE and DT in Free Agency.

DT Grover Stewart
DE AJ Epenesa

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Haha this is hilarious: Saints almost made a responsible decision in restructuring Cameron Jordan's contract.

Kind of like the time Mickey Loomis almost quit drinking.

https://saintswire.usatoday.com/2024...re-retirement/

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

While this move saves cap it has more to do with Maye's availability and the availability of replacements out there in free agency.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

We already have a YOUNG CHEAP replacement on the team.

Also, Maye's availability has been identical to Lattimore's availability the late two seasons. Both totaled 17 games over 2 years, 10 games one season, 7 another. And again we have an internal younger replacement.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

You are right about Howden. I need to see more from him before I know what we have. We need to draft the replacements for our aging/expensive vets and that's going to be hard to do with only two picks in the first four rounds.

We have proven that we can find contributors later in the in the draft. On the other hand, I'm sure that several of the four fifth round picks we have will undoubtedly be traded away to move up in the draft. I don't want to trade all of our late round picks to move up unless someone slips in the draft we just have to have.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Here's how teams that use the antiquated cap management methodology make cap adjustment moves.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Oh, no! We're doomed!!! :couch:

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

This was an important move for the Saints, I believe. Tyrann has become a face of the Saints and that means a lot. Yes, he can still do his job, but more importantly he means more to New Orleans than just doing his job on the field. The same thing goes for Cam Jordan.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Cameron Jordan's extension last year turned out to be a big mistake. The decline we knew was coming sooner or later came and we paid a lot of money for 2 sacks and now his 2024 salary is guaranteed at the level of a well above average starter while we debate using our first round pick to replace him. It's not that Jordan is a bad guy, he is a team leader, but we are stuck paying $14 million for two sacks in 2024, no matter how many future years we refinanced that cash to. Had we simply waited, we could be paying him more like $6-8 million as a team leader whos production has dropped to a point that we would be looking to rotate younger players in on passing downs and his snaps may be a lot less than years past.

Extending players like Mathieu, Davis, and Kamara would be a similar folly if their contracts guarantee salary like Jordan's did. If its like a $2 million bonus but the 2025 salary is not guaranteed it is less risky.

Extending Kamara would be the biggest disaster. Virtually all running backs decline around his age. He is already declining unlike Mathieu and Davis. Even if he could still be elite, its a stretch for him to achieve that behind our oline. The rest of the league is getting out of big contracts to declining RB's and if we kick the can its a disaster.

Like I said with Jordan, its not like these players at their age are going to earn massive raises. There is not a realistic scenario, especially with this market collapse for safeties, where there is some bidding war to pay Mathieu $15-20 million per year in 2025. We are buying at the ceiling a year before we need to. I am not a big fan of restructures but they could save the same money at least without guaranteeing future years base salaries too. What would be the harm in waiting until mid-season to make sure they have not already declined in 2024 before we lock them in at 2023 performance pay for 2025-2026?

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Part of your problem is you look at players as interchangeable parts. Real fans want to see the players they love out there on the field. I want Saints institutions like Jordan, Kamara, now Davis and Mathieu in the black and gold until they decide to retire.

That said, I for one am expecting far more production from Cam given the fact he was dealing with an ankle injury all season long and was still drawing double teams.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

I only look at players as interchangable parts if the goal is to win championships. If the goal is friendly mediocrity then the players are irreplacable family until they say what most of us think about the coaches and then they are gone. Football is a business. How do you expect to win making decisions based on nostalgic emotion?

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Quido is quoted as saying: “Winning championships is not the goal”.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

I was cool with re-signing Cam Jordan. I definitely wanted him to retire as a Saint. I think he grossly overcharged us, but it is what it is. Mathieu took a nice little pay cut to stay from what I saw. I applaud retaining him. The contracts I didn’t like were Peat and Ruiz. Didn't understand those deals.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Do we really want Kamara to retire a Saint on a fat paycheck for many more years?

https://saintswire.usatoday.com/2024...iams-contract/

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

I want Jordan to retire a Saint too, if he doesnt want to play for a contender which would be fine too. The problem is that when he is earning $14 million for two sacks, he may be wearing a Saints uniform, but he is effectively more of an asset to the Falcons, Bucs, and Panthers. By overpaying him, he is effectively retiring a Falcon, just like Matt Ryan and Julio Jones would effectively be retiring as assets to the Saints if they had stayed put in Atlanta. The problem with Jordan was false urgency. We could have restructured his previous deal without an extension and be announcing his signing at Mathieu’s price today, a much more reasonable figure. As for the ankle excuse that came out after the season, I call bull**** on that. The guy gets two sacks all year, we never hear a thing, and all of a sudden Mickey Loomis is not dumb for guaranteeing him $14 million in 2024 because he had a sore ankle all year but dont worry 34 year old 300ish lb football players who cant shake a sore ankle for 4 months always come back 100% the next year at 35yo. Declines of big men at 34yo due to nagging soft tissue injuries are never the ending, they are usually just a new beginning to be better than ever.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

"Real fans", huh?

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Take a look around the league. There isn't a single team that isn't wanting for even average linemen to fill holes. There are many reasons for this including lack of development in college due to NCAA mandated time constraints, oversimplification of offenses due to the same, movement to other positions, etc. Offensive line help is a league wide dilemma right now.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Yup. I absolutely want him to remain a Saint.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

He's never been the same since his knee injury. His insane split-second cutting on the opposite foot is one of the things that made him special. But he's lost that making him in the process not an elite back but an above average back with above average intelligence.

So the question asked, should we keep him? Depends on how he's used and the compensation package. He got his money. Is he willing to accept vet minimum deals for the remainder of his career? Would a team trade for him? Maybe Broncos, but probably nobody else at this stage of his career. Ingram abused his employers at the end of his career in terms not being worth it. And it took him three years to learn the position before his light came on. Kamara is much smarter than Ingram. He can be serviceable in a reserve role in the latter stage of his career, IMHO, but only on lower salary deals.

Also of consideration, we'll have to give Klint Kubiak the benefit of the doubt early on. In other words, we'll see just how he'll utilize Kamara.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Emphasis on fans, 76. Real FANS. People that feel the name on the back is as meaningful as of the team itself. Does that make sense? That's how I feel.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Looking at more details, if they are correct, Tyrann Mathieu's extension is a MUCH MUCH better deal for the Saints than Cameron Jordan's.

While advertised as a 2 year extension it really only extends his contract 1 year. He was already under contract for 2024 and it is a 2024-2025 deal.

While the team tries to sell every restructure as the player taking a selfless pay cut and the team being shrewd in getting them to agree to one, in reality most restructures are not pay cuts and amount to the player getting the same money, sooner, with more guarantees against losing it if cut or injured, and the money simply counting against future cap years even know its paid to the player earlier. But in this case it is an actual real pay cut. Mathieu was do to earn $8.5 million in 2024 via a $7 million base salary and $1.5 million roster bonus. Instead he will now earn a $1.5 million base salary and $5 million signing bonus for a total of $6.5 million, a legit $2 million pay cut.

Also, the big disaster of Cam Jordan's extension was it guaranteed his next years $14 million salary for 2024 so even when he declined greatly in 2023 we could not ask him to take a real pay cut more in like with his value. But Tyrann Mathieu's extension appears to guarantee only $1 million of his 2025 salary or roster bonus, so if he declines in 2024 we can cut him or ask for another pay cut in 2025. Essentially the pay cut he is taking in the current year outweigh the guarantees in future years while Jordan's extension was big on future guaranteed cash.

The only caveat is that I am not 100% sure the details are correct yet. NFL.com claims the extension guarantees Mathieu $10 million but I only see $7.5 million on overthecap in the form of $1.5 million 2024 salary, $5 million signing bonus, and $1 million guaranteed in 2025. If another $2.5 million is guaranteed its not ideal, but its still better than Jordan.

If we want to sign Davis, Kamara, etc to extensions that only guarantee $1 million in 2025 and beyond I am fine with that. If the contract details are correct, there seem to be very little in future guarantees in Mathieu's deal. But if we sign any of them to Jordan-style extensions we are stupid.

Under this contract, Mathieu may also be tradable if we get off to a slow start and a contender has an injury at safety and Mathieu is playing well. This would just a $12 million dead cap hit to our 2025 cap vs $11 million to keep him in 2025 without a restructure or $6 million with a restructure, but that is not a massive differential. But the other team would get Mathieu for $1.5 million in 2024 and the option of $7.25 million in 2025.

I do expect we will restructure Mathieu in 2025 if he is still on the team. This is the Saints so lets be realistic. They don't know how to say no to rescturing anyone.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Never give RB a second large contract
Too easily injured and they slow down way to quick. Give me 3 good RB in a comittee over a star and his back up every season

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

At this stage of his career, Kamara is clearly on a similar level to fellow ex-star 2016-2017 draft pick RB's Ezekiel Elliott, Kareem Hunt, and Dalvin Cook. The only difference is their teams could afford a dead cap hit so now they are begging for about $4 million a year while Kamara is set to earn $12 million in 2024 and $25 million in 2025. If Kamara makes more than $7 million a year (what Cook got from the Jets in 2023 that they found to be a mistake) or gets more than 1 year guaranteed at a time, we are just sucker *******.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

+1.

Working out well for the champs (Chiefs) too … & another ring 🏆.

Pacheco, Helaire & Mckinnon.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

The Saints restructures kick the can and add burden for future years. The broncos are moving on from disappointing aging players and improving their cap position fr 2025-2026. Also they are acquiring draft picks. Its being framed differently because it is different.