Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

And they're going to suck for at least two or three years, if not more. It may be a decade before their fans want to go to games. Doesn't bother you though if it seems to have the same fate for the Saints. It's not like you're paying $15 grand a year attend every home game like some loyal fans.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Espn power rankings for 2024 have the Saints at 22 and the Broncos at 23 so substantially different records are not what most people are anticipating. They are anticipating that the Broncos can make cap gains for the future while still being as competitive as the Saints immediately. The Rams and Bucs made substantial rebuilding moves in the offseason prior to 2023 and but had more successful seasons in 2023 than the Saints. You have a pathological fear of any rebuilding and you are like ‘omg rebuilding, omg rebuilding, omg rebuilding, we’re all going to die, we will go 0-17 for 10 years straight if we make one move for the long term.’ If you could get over your obsessive fear of rebuilding and your sick hatred of the other 31 GM’s in the NFL who believe in doing it occasionally you could be a much healthier happier person.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

By “admission”, you put the SUCK in SUCKA. And you keep signaling our team to continue to suck, due to your loyalty to mediocrity. Thanks.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

zzzzzz

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

now you get it.... 2 or 3 years of more suckage.... a decade or more for FANS to WANT to go to games... 2030 is real close. Can you say bye bye New Orleans...? Governor Landry will NOT support a state bail out like Blanco did. Just a matter of time. :beatnik: Sean Payton, on the other hand will build a winning team.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Salient point.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

thank you my brother! :beatnik:

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Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

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Looking like we can be in the shopping game real soon.

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Just in time for the bottom tier, aged out, injury prone players! Yay!

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

There our two allowed June 1st designations for the year.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

There's the Ramczyk deal! I wouldn't be surprised if they were waiting as long as possible on the results of Ramczyk's surgery earlier this offseason. The deal points to it likely extending Ram's career. If so then that's great news.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

After the Ramczyk deal and the Willie Gay signing we may still have as much as $10-$15 million in cap available for free agency. Possibly even more. It depends upon the details of both deals.

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Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

We will have to see the numbers on Ram's deal. I agree with KT that we won't know until he actually sees the field (and then how he holds up on the field). Every doctor is optimistic about every surgery. Every coach and front office person is optimistic about keeping any player they can't afford to cut. But as we have seen, results on the field may vary.

If Ram took a pay cut without future guarantees that is good and makes sense given the state of his career. If he $17 million salary just got pro-rated into the future that is not good, especially if any future money got guaranteed.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

See Underhill's tweet above for more detail.

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The one sentence from Underhill does not really explain it. Previously Ram was due base salaries of $17m in 2024, $18m in 2025, $19m in 2026, had $10m prorated money from past bonuses due in each of those years, and $2.5m dead money due in 2027 void year. For 2025, $6.5m of his $17m base salary was going to guarantee this Saturday March 16.

So now we know his salary has dropped to a vet minimum, probably under $1.5m, but we don't know how much of that is a pay cut and how much was converted to bonuses. He previously had no guarantees (but would have had one for $6.5m on Saturday) and presumably the Saturday guarantee was accelerated to today. So his yearly cash for this year, regardless of what future caps it has been restructured to is somewhere between $6.5m-$17m. There is a 2025 escalator that lets him earn a lot back but how much? If he was previously set to earn $18m in 2025 does the escalator allow him to get back to $18m, or does it let him make up for all pay cuts he took and potentially take him $18m plus the possible $10.5m 2024 pay cut for a total of $28.5m in 2025? And is any of it guaranteed at any time and how to does it trigger? If Ram plays 17 games in 2024 but loses a step in performance, we don't want to guarantee him $28.5 million or anything close to that. On the other hand if it triggers on performance and availability and it just gets back up to $18m if he is fully back, that's reasonable.

Hopefully he took an actual pay cut and its a good deal. If the surgery goes well and he can move forward at a reasonable salary without giant guarantees that is good. If the injury bug returns in 2024 he can be a post-june-1 cut if there are no guarantees for 2025.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Saints are now $15MM in the black

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I think its important to weigh all our options. This money does not have to be used to sign big name players, and I am not convinced we are one big name player away from taking down Mahomes and Purdy.

Two other uses are possible for this money:

1. Trading a player before June 1 to acquire picks in this years draft. At some point we do need to get younger. Players may have more value now than post June 1 when rosters are set and caps spent. Plus getting draft picks sooner means they can contribute now.

2. Not spending it. Plenty of major contender teams went into 2023 well under the salary cap. There is a distinct advantage in flexibility to this approach. If such a team gets off to a hot start they can be buyers in the trade market, and get an even higher impact player then. If they get off to a bad start and it does not look like their year, they can be sellers in the trade market and not constrained by potential dead cap hits. If they do not get involved in the trade market, the spare salary cap space allows more flexibility for extending existing players or having more options in the following offseason.

Also, we still need to sign our draft picks.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

This doesn't affect the current cap figure. It was already factored in.

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More spending money! Championship!

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For anyone thinking it is so easy to manage a cap, check this out. The Niners lose a 2025 pick and have their 2024 4th rounder moved to the end of the round for a violation.

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Prolly more indicative of either complete buffoonery or an intentional attempt to circumvent the rules.

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The mistake they made wouldn't have circumvented the cap itself according to the articles I've read, but were more on the side of faulty reporting. It still cost them dearly. A true cap violation is far more punitive, I believe.

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Every year

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I don't think we know what a true cap violation would entail because I don't think it has never happened before. Beyond loss of draft picks and fines, a key provision is that if a team exceeds the salary cap the NFL can terminate contracts to bring them into compliance.

Terminating a veteran contract might not work, because many veterans had big signing bonuses that would cause dead cap hits and actually worsen compliance, so it would have to be a player who is either on their rookie contract in a non-guaranteed year or a veteran nearing the end of their contract whose deal has not been restructured and thus carries little dead cap.

In theory if the 49ers had accidently exceeded the salary cap the NFL could have found some late round draft pick whose salary was not guaranteed, had a minimal signing bonus, and was mostly paid in base salary, and terminated their contract to bring the 49ers into compliance. For example the 49ers have a player named Brock Purdy who has a base salary of $985,000 but would generate a dead cap hit of only $38,506 if cut, so had the 49ers exceeded the cap, the league could have released Brock Purdy from their roster to save them about $950,000 instantly. If the Saints exceeded the salary cap, Adebo could be a good target for the league, as he carries a $3.4 million base salary and only $0.25 million dead cap.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Yup. That's why they structure the contracts the way they do. This is simply the methodology they choose to use. It simply accounts for the same cash every other team spends in later periods when it counts as a smaller percentage of the cap. They don't do it because they have to do it. They do it because that is the accounting strategy they chose to use almost two decades ago.

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And during those two decades they had 15 seasons of a top 5 all time QB and came out with only one ring which occurred very early in the run, indicating the methodology is not sustainably successful if your goal is to win championships. If your goal is to have an above average number of wins when you have have a top 5 all time HOF QB, avoid ever having one down season to get a high draft pick to help him out, and go about .500 when you don't have a HOF QB, then the methodology is amazing.

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Salient Points. ^^^

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Only three teams over that period of time have won more games than the New Orleans Saints. They are also the only team other than the Steelers to have not won less than seven games per year during that same stretch. They aren't going to change how they do business just for you. Your schtick is getting extremely old and it's becoming more and more clear why you were banned from that other site, a fact that you are so proud to share, by the way.

And, yes, the goal is to remain competitive year after year, and given our first 40 years of existence I have no problem with that at all, as does the vast majority of true Saints fans. As long as you are competitive you always have a chance to win it all.

:bng:

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

“Stench” = NOT EVEN BEING ABLE TO WIN THE PATHETIC NFC SOUTH DIVISION.

“Just keep doing what you’re doing”. ~ Dennis Allen
“We have all the right people in the building”. ~ Mickey Loomis
“Winning championships is not the goal”. ~ Quido Kumbaya

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Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

If you exactly overlap when any given team had a Hall of Fame QB and compare their record over that exact time period or a very similar one with other teams, it will always look impressive. That is the HOF QB who is responsible, and to a lesser degree the head coach.

You seem to believe that Pete Carmichael was just a guy in the room who was along for the ride, but you **** balls when I say thats what Mickey Loomis was. If anything Pete Carmichael's record as OC is probably better than Mickey Loomis as GM. You say Sean Payton was really they one calling the plays so Carmichael did nothing, but many say Sean Payton was the one really making the personnel decisions during most of Mickey Loomis's tenure as GM. You can say Loomis brought in Payton and Brees but even a broken clock is right twice a day and the Saints were nobodies first choice at the time so we may have defaulted into those players, or Tom Benson might have made the call on Payton and Payton may have made the call on Brees. Some of the other people Mickey Loomis has gone all in for are giving Aaron Brooks a big contract, allowing/encouraging the conversion of Brooks into a pocket QB after extending him, sticking with Jim Haslett for years after his one playoff win the first year, sticking his finger in the wind when we were considering a move to San Antonio, not changing his mind under Benson did, firing Arnie Fielkow who opposed the move to San Antonio earlier, hiring DA to succeed Payton, going all-in to get DeShaun Watson, and going all-in to get Derek Carr.

The fact is that if the Saints fired Mickey Loomis while signing Dennis Allen and Derek Carr to 5 year extensions and promoting Jeff Ireland and Khai Harley to co-GM's, Guido would be singing the praises of the move, arguing Loomis was the problem all along, waiving his arms about Loomis's flaws, and making other arguments involving stats and records for why Allen, Carr, Ireland, and Harley are all amazing and should be Saints for life. That's Guido. He is a company man. If the Saints do it, he is for it, even if he used to be against it. When news comes out that Jordan's restructure mostly didn't kick the can, he is proud to post that Loomis has seen the light and 'just because we could restructure doesn't mean we should' but when the correction comes in that it was a max restructure he praises that too. He has no independent view. Whatever the Saints do is his definition of genius. Whoever they keep the is the second coming and whoever they can was a cancer all along and an addition by subtraction, or a smart move because there was no need for them. Any addition is the last missing piece for a champioship.

The Patriots had a good record with Adam Vinatieri. That does not mean he should still be their kicker today. Jerry Reese won two super bowls as GM of the Giants and can't get an interview. Even Bill Belichick could not get hired. Mickey Loomis had a Hall of Fame QB for 15 years, one of the greatest of all time, and only won 1 super bowl. That is below average. Sure Marino never won, but both Mannings, Montana, Brady, Elway, Mahomes, etc all won multiple. Without Brees he has a losing record as GM.

Also I am not sure that Loomis has always managed the salary cap how he does today, max restructuring everyone. Spotrac past salary cap info only goes back to 2020 unless you have a premium membership, which I dont know anyone who has one. If you look at those caps, in 2022-2023 the Saints max restructured just about everyone, whereas if you look at 2020-2021 they left a few larger base salaries alone, so avoid increasing dead cap hits on players they expected they might be unable to retain like Cook, Williams, Brown, etc. They were not so desperate in 2020 that they had to restructure the punter and kicker for pocket change. I am sure the Saints restructured some players between 2002-2019 but I don't know when they started max restructuring EVERYONE. Max restructuring half the big contracts versus all the big contracts is very different.

I have many problems with Loomis. He gambles too much on injury prone players and players with character issues. He loses value by trading up in the draft and throws away mid round picks when his scouts are actually better at finding value in mid rounds. He loses even more value trading future picks for present picks at a heavy price. He does not insist on proper medical evaluation when signing injury prone players. He makes bad decisions hiring/retaining coaches and pursuing QBs who are not Payton/Brees with Haslett, Brooks, DA, Watson, Carr, etc. But his salary cap management is one of his worst attributes recently, and I am not sure it was always that way. In the past the Saints did have financial flexibility to get out of bad contracts quickly and make value added trades that came with big dead cap hits.

If you look at the Saints cap in 2023 there was extremely little flexibility during the season. If we were one player away and they were on the trade market, we might not have been able to add that player. If Carr had cratered instead of improved the last several games, we could probably still not have moved on. If we had a great offer on the table for a veteran when we were out of contention, we possibly could not have afforded the dead cap of accepting it. We were very maxxed out. I am not sure if it was ever that bad in the past, even during the great recession from 2008-2012 when the salary cap was flat for years.

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

Looks like more crap. Not going to waste time reading it. :rolleyes: Go post it on your goofy website. ;)

Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch
 

If you don't read it don't comment on it.