Safe Roster Spots

JKool · 10-11-2005, 01:32 AM

I've recently been quite amused by the number of "calls for heads" that have been posted recently. It is week five for crying out loud - who can really say who might emerge, mature, step up, have a come back, and so on, AS OF RIGHT NOW about next year.

Imagine the prognosticating ability that it would take to accurately predict who it would be worth making sure would be on the roster at the start of next season right now! It is likewise unlikely that anyone could really predict who will NOT be worth keeping.

If the goal is merely to provide a list of players who you think are playing well right now (or a list of who is playing badly), that I think is an interesting thing to talk about. My candidates appear below. If the goal is to really say who shouldn't make the team next year based on the information we have as of now, then I say that such a judgement has little basis and is largely unreliable.

Current solid performers:
Bentley
Brown
Horn
Karney
Berger
Grant
W. Smith
Whitehead (playing out of position no less)
Bryant
McKenzie
D. Smith
J. Bullocks (though little info is available)

saintswhodi · 10-11-2005, 09:46 AM

I agree with your safe list Kool. But here is the problem with kinda blasting people for calling for heads, these are the same heads that have been called for for over two years now. The list of heads that needs to roll hasn't changed. So it's kinda unfair to make it seem as if this is a new regime and people are calling for heads. It's the same offenders. Once again though, I agree with your list, although I would add Brian Young. It's really not his fault he has no DT lined up next to him to allow him to do what he does best. And even with the knee, Deuce has gotta be on there simply cause his new contract makes him untradeable. Maybe this knee injury allows him to drop some additional weight and pick up some speed without losing too much power.

papz · 10-11-2005, 09:56 AM

Unsafe roster spots:

Haslett
Venturi
Carney
Brooks
Craft (yes I admit it!)
Hodge
Bellamy
Sullivan
Lewis
Williams
Meier

Basically the team really hasn't changed significantly from year to year with us. Besides draft picks, we really don't sign many significant free agents. So basically what I'm getting at is that we've practically put the same product on the field the past couple of years and look at our results. So I think it's time for a makeover if in fact we don't make it to the playoffs this year. It starts up top with Haslett and goes down from there. I think it's pretty fair for some, including myself, to want some changes around here.

JKool · 10-11-2005, 11:13 AM

Whodi,

I actually wasn't disagreeing with the "calling for heads" per se. What I was saying is that such behavior should be translated into assessments of those players right now - for example, "if the offseason started tomorrow, these are the guys who'd have no chance of making the roster", rather than "these guys have no chance of being good before a year from now." The former makes sense to me, the later seems way premature, even in light of historical arguments (which would have to be applied case by case).

I agree with your additions of Duece and Young.

Papz, I agree with your "got to go as of now list". I would give Boo another shot, and Meier, since I really know nothing of him. I would add to your list Cie Grant, Allen (can't beat Hodge for the starting spot), Gandy, and Loomis.

saintswhodi · 10-11-2005, 11:26 AM

even in light of historical arguments (which would have to be applied case by case).

I have to disagree there. Some cases have already been made, and yet to be proven false. Therefore, there is no need to "re-prove" them. The onus was on that player or coach to step out of previous criticisms, if there is no evidence of that, and regression from even that point, I don't think there is a need to go case by case. The argument has been made. For newer players, Colby, Watson, etc. where there is only a year or two of assessment, sure, maybe you can go case by case. But for individuals that have been here 5-6 years, case law is already set. Time to execute.

SaintStoneyMount · 10-11-2005, 11:45 AM

When you lose 52-3 and nobody looks like they had a clue, no one is safe.. depending on what changes are made esp. if a coaching change comes about...some players who are doing okay in the current system might not work with the new system...as well some players who aren't doing well now may flourish under a new system or new coach. I don't think anybody is safe. Right now every Saint needs to play like their job depends on their performance...On second thought that should be the norm and maybe that's the problem. Maybe some of these guys are way to comfortable with the idea that they are going to be the guy no matter what......hmmm Aaron?

10-11-2005, 01:32 AM	#1
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Safe Roster Spots I've recently been quite amused by the number of "calls for heads" that have been posted recently. It is week five for crying out loud - who can really say who might emerge, mature, step up, have a come back, and so on, AS OF RIGHT NOW about next year. Imagine the prognosticating ability that it would take to accurately predict who it would be worth making sure would be on the roster at the start of next season right now! It is likewise unlikely that anyone could really predict who will NOT be worth keeping. If the goal is merely to provide a list of players who you think are playing well right now (or a list of who is playing badly), that I think is an interesting thing to talk about. My candidates appear below. If the goal is to really say who shouldn't make the team next year based on the information we have as of now, then I say that such a judgement has little basis and is largely unreliable. Current solid performers: Bentley Brown Horn Karney Berger Grant W. Smith Whitehead (playing out of position no less) Bryant McKenzie D. Smith J. Bullocks (though little info is available)
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

10-11-2005, 11:13 AM	#4
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Whodi, I actually wasn't disagreeing with the "calling for heads" per se. What I was saying is that such behavior should be translated into assessments of those players right now - for example, "if the offseason started tomorrow, these are the guys who'd have no chance of making the roster", rather than "these guys have no chance of being good before a year from now." The former makes sense to me, the later seems way premature, even in light of historical arguments (which would have to be applied case by case). I agree with your additions of Duece and Young. Papz, I agree with your "got to go as of now list". I would give Boo another shot, and Meier, since I really know nothing of him. I would add to your list Cie Grant, Allen (can't beat Hodge for the starting spot), Gandy, and Loomis.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

10-11-2005, 11:45 AM	#6
SaintStoneyMount 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Stone Mountain, GA Posts: 448	When you lose 52-3 and nobody looks like they had a clue, no one is safe.. depending on what changes are made esp. if a coaching change comes about...some players who are doing okay in the current system might not work with the new system...as well some players who aren't doing well now may flourish under a new system or new coach. I don't think anybody is safe. Right now every Saint needs to play like their job depends on their performance...On second thought that should be the norm and maybe that's the problem. Maybe some of these guys are way to comfortable with the idea that they are going to be the guy no matter what......hmmm Aaron?
	SaintStoneyMountLurksNoMore \"Bless U Boyz\" \"Geaux Saints\" \"Geaux Tigers\"

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10-11-2005, 09:46 AM	#2
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	I agree with your safe list Kool. But here is the problem with kinda blasting people for calling for heads, these are the same heads that have been called for for over two years now. The list of heads that needs to roll hasn't changed. So it's kinda unfair to make it seem as if this is a new regime and people are calling for heads. It's the same offenders. Once again though, I agree with your list, although I would add Brian Young. It's really not his fault he has no DT lined up next to him to allow him to do what he does best. And even with the knee, Deuce has gotta be on there simply cause his new contract makes him untradeable. Maybe this knee injury allows him to drop some additional weight and pick up some speed without losing too much power.

10-11-2005, 09:56 AM	#3
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,754	Unsafe roster spots: Haslett Venturi Carney Brooks Craft (yes I admit it!) Hodge Bellamy Sullivan Lewis Williams Meier Basically the team really hasn't changed significantly from year to year with us. Besides draft picks, we really don't sign many significant free agents. So basically what I'm getting at is that we've practically put the same product on the field the past couple of years and look at our results. So I think it's time for a makeover if in fact we don't make it to the playoffs this year. It starts up top with Haslett and goes down from there. I think it's pretty fair for some, including myself, to want some changes around here.

10-11-2005, 11:26 AM	#5
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	even in light of historical arguments (which would have to be applied case by case). I have to disagree there. Some cases have already been made, and yet to be proven false. Therefore, there is no need to "re-prove" them. The onus was on that player or coach to step out of previous criticisms, if there is no evidence of that, and regression from even that point, I don't think there is a need to go case by case. The argument has been made. For newer players, Colby, Watson, etc. where there is only a year or two of assessment, sure, maybe you can go case by case. But for individuals that have been here 5-6 years, case law is already set. Time to execute.