AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

A hot mess, with Raider-Curbside-Clean-Up looking promising in mini-skirt… I mean mini-camp…

oh there WILL be pain Who Dats…

Don’t be mad at me… Shoot your arrows at Divine Lady B.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

https://www.nola.com/sports/alvin-ka...08ad9e173.html

He thinks he has leverage ... Guess we'll see when the dust settles.

I'll say this, though, he's not the same difference maker as he once was , or pre injury. Probably not even worth his contract anymore .

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

It would be insulting to our players who agreed to pay cuts if we gave a pay raise or more guarantees without a cut for a player who is older for their position and who has declined more. If we did that on the premise of his production increasing in a potentially better offensive scheme, we would be rewarding offensive players for the offense being bad, and encouraging the defense to be worse so they could get raises based on hypothetical scheme improvements.

If Kamara gets a CMC type contract I hope he gets it from the Falcons and its fully guaranteed. Realistically running backs from the 2016 draft are all declined and those from 2017 are dropping like flies. We saw Cook and Elliott drop off the map last year. There is not a running back Tom Brady.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

He's looking at a short shelf life as well as the other top RB's getting a little extra. Can't blame him for trying to squeeze more out of his fading career.

It's a business after all.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

With the fans (paying customers) getting more of the short end of the stick, I don’t see how this business model continues to thrive, unless the majority of fans are Quidos.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

Running backs are not like fine wines. That being said I’m not sure his down year last season was due to poor line play more than wear and age.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

I don’t think we can really know what AK has left until we see him in our new offense. PC had absolutely no clue as to how to use AK.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

Take care of your legends. Players talk. It’ll go a long way.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

The Cowboys let Elliott walk. The Vikings let Cook walk. The Steelers let Bell walk. The Chargers let LT2 walk. The Vikings let Adrian Peterson walk.

Would it really have been in any of these teams interests to 'take care' of their aging running backs because 'players talk' rather than freeing up resources to compete in the future?

The Jets signed 3 of these players, so maybe when players talk what they will say is 'hey Kamara, talk to the suckers in New York if you have lost a step, they've got money to burn.'

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

If the O Line is up to the task, you resign him. Otherwise it's wasted money.

I'd guess;

3 years
$20 million
$12 million guaranteed

2026 is a void year.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

None of those teams turned out any better “freeing up resources”. Make your legend happy. Let him retire a lifelong, Saint. Build a culture that values the feelings of the players.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

At this point I think he’s an important part of the culture within the organization and fan base. Hes seen us at our best and I think he’s needed if this team decides it wants to reestablish an identity. I say pay him and show the league we take care of our playmakers.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

Kamara isn't wanting to leave. He's wanting to stay. It's not about the money, it's about an extension from everything I have heard and read. He wants to retire a Saint. This will be done before anything else resumes.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

Don't waste your time with Bako, Rez. He hates everything the Saints are now. Hates.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

AK IS OUT, at exactly the time that a well managed team in our position would have him IN. Nah we are a hot mess.
That’s what the Saints are now.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

Trade AK while you still can get some value and get that contract off the books, especially next year's dead money. No player swaps, just future draft capital. Juwan is a goner with yet another injury. Opens the door for multiple new TEs. We need motivated young new blood anyway.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

With the legal issues he had last year and now this my appreciation for Kamara has dropped way off.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

Everything I'm hearing is that Kamara wants to spend the rest of his career in New Orleans. He's wanting an extension to stay here long term, not necessarily more money.

And don't forget, almost all of these players have agents and these type of moves are fully orchestrated by those agents. Nothing personal.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

He will be dynamic in the offense. He will get paid. Even at his age as an RB, he still has a lot of tread if used properly.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

Leaving while the team hits the field in front of God and everyone is a little different than leaking news or just not showing up. Looks like a message straight from Kamara to me. Obviously his agent is behind the contract issue but Kamara is going to do what Kamara wants to do to get HIS point across.
It doesn’t matter what your old scrawny Popeye looking ass says.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

So, he just wants an extension and it's not about more $$$? Not buying that, Guido. I mean, how does that even work anyway? By contractural logic, doesn't and extension naturally lead to greater salary consideration? Or are we really expected to believe that AK simply wants to 'retire' in NOLA and he's OK making his current bag?

Is that why he made a show of walking out of practice? :confused:

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

"Poo-poo smells just as bad as s#!%. One just SOUNDS cuter!"

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

Obviously some posturing going on weather it’s his agents doing, AK spur of the moment, doubtful, or a mix of the 2.

Should AK choose to hold out for the start of training camp he can be fine up to $50,000 a day for total of up $2 million if he misses all of training camp.

No doubt the Saints have an acceptable number in mind for an extension as does AK and his agent. Understandable that at this point of the negotiation that either side has made an acceptable offer or counter offer.

Typical fodder for the media and speculative narratives by everyone not in the know … IYKYK and you ain’t talking.

Is what it is … Be Happy don’t worry.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

There are lots of moving parts to this story.

We don't know what AK wants yet. Does he want an extension? More money? More guarantees? How far apart are the Saints and his agent? Who's idea was it to walk out after the walk through that morning? If there was going to be a contract dispute then why didn't he attend the offseason program to familiarize himself with the new scheme?

One more question is whose fault is it that AK has had unproductive seasons under Pete Carmichael? I'm thinking that AK worked just as hard as ever, kept in fantastic shape and was criminally underused by the Saints the last couple of years.

The Saints worked hard to downplay his suspension, but it did leave the team in a tough spot to start the season without him last year. But their patience might be wearing thin now.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

I would like to keep AK but I’m also not against trading him. If we could get a few picks I would pull the trigger. He is not irreplaceable

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

Two thoughts Rugs

Saint's aren't the ones in the relationship who deserve the description of "criminally".

It's fair to say misused, but not sure he was underused.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

I wouldn't even extend him on current terms
He is a aging RB who's numbers have dropped each year as his injuries have increased. Its not a position to have a player get old and on a high deal. I don't even agree with 1 high priced extension for a RB. Let them get old on someone else's dime

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

There is little to no doubt Kamara will get an extension and I'm sure we'll all end up liking the result in this new offense that features backs of his skillset. Any misconceived notion of a sizable drop off in his abilities is not considering the byproduct of Pete Carmichael's total ineptitude at play design and play calling.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

Both misused and underused, albeit they can be overlapping in definition.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

The thing is, while other teams are putting winning packages together (and winning players into position) right about now, we are doing this drama thing that creates yet another wrench in the gears of our perpetual “rebuild” cycle. I’m starting to think that some of y'all are starting to enjoy this sh*t more than championship football. Most of us would rather see our team win.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

I really like Kamara, but when it comes down to it, my personal feelings for him won't affect my business decisions. I do agree that holding onto him would send a positive message to other players, but in reality, most players prioritize money over loyalty.

In my experience as a leader, I've noticed a significant decrease in employee loyalty over the years. It's hard to say whether it's the employees or the employers who stopped prioritizing loyalty first. Kamara is aware that his time as a player is limited due to the wear and tear on his body. We've seen running backs' value diminish in recent years, which makes it clear that he needs to consider his future carefully as does the organization. Each season we struggle with cap space and go into restructuring hell.

Depending on demands, this may be his last as a Saint.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

If it is indeed his last as a Saint it will also be his last in the league. He has repeatedly intimated that he wants to play his entire career with the Saints. And given his agent's whole purpose for making this "statement" is to hurry up and get that extension it doesn't make sense that he'd retire after this season.

As for money over loyalty, I have been hearing that the market for Kamara would be far less than what the Saints are already willing to pay for his extension.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

Saints aren't paying his voidable $25 million year next year. :popcorn:

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

There are 32 teams in the league, and if a team just won the Superbowl or got very close, that is often not the year that they move on from an aging running back in anticipation of decline, because it is safer to just 'stick with what worked' when it is working. Also, it is often the case that teams that feature star running backs as centerpieces of their offense don't win as many rings as more 'pass first' teams, so most teams that move on from such running backs are not great contenders before or after. The Saints did not win the Super Bowl or get close last year. The fact is that all these running backs decline around this age, then don't usually do much for their next team, and letting them walk if they want too much cash at least gives a chance to put that money on a player with upside. The Jets will sign him just like they signed LT2, Bell, and Cook, and he will be fine.

If AK is willing to take a team friendly deal like Demario Davis was, I would be happy for the Saints to extend him. If what it will take to make him happy is a 'him friendly' deal like Cam Jordan got when he started waxing poetic about his lovely dream to retire a Saint, we need to say No. My fear is a deal that approaches what the 49ers paid CMC, which would not be team friendly, something that guaranteed over $12 million in 2025 or over $8 million in 2026 before we even see if he lost a step or is rejuvenated in the new offense despite the questionable oline in 2024. Realistically, market value would be low for Kamara if he was a free agent, similar to Cook and Elliott last year. We don't need to pay way over market value.

A good example of a team benefitting from letting an aging RB walk is the Colts with Edgerrin James. The Colts let James walk in 2006, his age 28 season, and won the Super Bowl their first year without him, and returned to another Super Bowl 3 years later. Kamara will be entering his age 29 season this year. James signed with the Cardinals who did make the Super Bowl in 2008 his final year with the team, but by that times James was a greatly declined 500 yard rusher for the year and honestly the Cardinals might have a ring if they had put the money elsewhere.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

I think you are taking the PR at face value too much. What a player, their agent, or the team says in negotiations may often just be a negotiating tactic. Some players really do want to play their entire career with one franchise, others want to go where they can win, and others want to follow the money. In negotiations where a players demands are not being met, but outside demand is also soft, it can be a good negotiating tactic to emphasize loyalty and legacy with the home team, to try to drum up public support for an extension and convince the team to offer a little more based on fans contagious optimism. Fans often want to see defectors fail and loyal players succeed, so when a player broadcasts their supposed loyalty, fan expectations can rise.

I have no doubt there are legitimately loyal players. And also, there are players who don't like moving and like their home team but are also greedy for contract numbers their performance makes hard to justify.

Last season, Cam Jordan played the same tune about wanting to retire a Saint and how loyal he was, then talked the team into an unnecessary extension with big guarantees just as he was aging into decline, and the Saints ended up in 2024 paying $14 million for a player coming off 2 sacks who will supposedly get healthier as they age and never again twist and ankle wrestling 350lb men. This offseason Jordan restructured, but didn't take any pay cut despite greatly diminished performance, while many teammates did. Jordan may love the Saints, but ultimately he is going to cash out every dollar he can, even as his performance declines, despite the strains that may put the team under. He is loyal to .500. You will never see and apology for letting fans down, only business is business.

In light of this, and rumors the Saints are already offering Kamara above market when players like Davis took below market deals coming off better years, I think the reality is that Kamara is probably all business here and looking to back up the Brinks truck in Metairie. He might prefer to retire a Saint, or he might be just as well to go to the Jets if they write a big check, but right now given that his last 2 years performances are not setting the world on fire, I think the loyalty and legacy card is just a negotiating tactic.

Kamara is under contract. We have a younger backup. No sane 29 year old running back is walking away from almost $12 million. It is virtually impossible that Kamara could put up a performance in 2024 that would lead other teams to bid more than $12 million a year on a 30 year old RB, as McCaffery only had that value to the 49ers for being already proven in their system that was already in Super Bowl contention. Even if Kamara bounces back, he still turns 30, and there are major limits to have far he can bounce back with an oline that, even if improved and serviceable, is very very unlikely to be elite.

Essentially the only way Kamara can outplay his $12 million salary is if he is the best or tied for best RB in the league in 2024. That is very unlikely. If that happens, he is under contract for $25 million in 2025 and the Saints could hold onto him until post-june-1 working on extension.

We lose nothing by taking a wait and see approach to Kamara during 2024. If he was truly loyal he would not mind playing on a year to year basis as a 29yo RB who has seen many of his contemporaries doing the same. If he was truly loyal he would not be demanding a contract that pays more than his recent performance justifies and demanding the team pay for hopes and what ifs. He is a businessman. We need to be businessmen too.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

Both sides know exactly what they are doing. On the other hand, you and I have no clue what they're doing. If you can make totally unfounded declarations, so can I.

:D

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

Interesting article. At this stage in his career, several years older than many of the top players on this list, and not coming off the the top RB type season that McCaffery was, I think at best Kamara's current comps would players 6-10 on this list not players 1-5. It doesn't matter that he was a top 5 RB when he signed his previous deal in 2020, that does not make him top 5 now, and he would be lucky to get top 10 money. What top 5-10 money means is 3-3.5% of the salary cap.

With the salary cap at $255 million that means his new deal at 3-3.5% of the salary cap should average $7.5-$9 million per year. The most recent contract in the middle of this range is Joe Mixon. He got 3yr $25.5m total with $16m guaranteed, an average annual salary of $8.5m/yr. This is approximately Kamara's market value. If anything Mixon is worth more coming off 1034/376 rushing/receiving and entering the 2024 season at 28yo. Kamara is a year older and coming off 694/466 rushing/receiving.

But even a Mixon level contract, that would be a pay cut for Kamara short term, might be generous. Dalvin Cook is essentially the same age as Kamara, became a free agent last year (a year younger than Kamara is now) coming off 1173/295 rushing/receiving with 4.4ypc (10% above Kamara and Mixon) and had to settle for a 1 year $7 million contract.

Fair value for Alvin Kamara would be $7-9 million per year for 1-3 years. Whether he would be worth 1yr $7 million like Cook or 3yr $27 million (basically the same as Mixon) is a matter of opinion. Anything more than this would be shear stupidity and incompetency.

The problem is, Kamara is due to make almost $12 million in 2024 alone, so its Mixon's 3yr contract with $16 million guaranteed may be hard sell. Thats just the reality of a declined player, nobody will want to extend them at their previous salary level. So, its up to him, he has not justified a raise, he has justified a salary reduction. If he wants to keep playing out his existing contract he can take that risk, but the Saints cannot afford to overpay him based on nostalgia.

Re: AK IS PULLING AN MT, AND THEY WHEELIN JIMMY G IN TO PICK UP WHERE JUWAN DROPPED OFF…
 

The Saints will indeed over pay him, but not in the manner you propose. Kamara has built up equity that give him more value than just a player on the field. The vast majority of fans love him.

That said, I simply don't see Kamara as "a declined player" as you label him. I see him as a player that was totally misused under the guidance of Pete Carmichael for the past two seasons. The Shanahan/Kubiak offensive scheme was designed for his type of play. If McCaffrey was running the exact same plays here under Carmichael his production would have been WAY down over the same time span. On the other hand, if Kamara had been running the Niners' Shanahan/Kubiak based scheme these past two seasons his numbers would have been markedly better.

Given all of that, he's still not going to be paid near top dollar and I seriously doubt he's expecting that. I believe he wants an extension first and foremost. That's it.

I understand that your mindset is to always look toward the very worst. For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone could live their life that way.

Pessimist versus optimist.