ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

Not being a Pessimist. Just reporting what comes across my desk.

This is about our Captain.

“Yikes. ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler has been busy polling personnel around the NFL on their top-10 rankings at every position, seeking feedback from general managers, coaches, and scouts alike. And of the “nearly 80 voters” he spoke with, not a single one was willing to rank Derek Carr among the game’s best quarterbacks.

Between the top-10 list, six honorable mentions, and two other quarterbacks receiving votes, there were 18 passers highlighted by ESPN’s rankings. And the New Orleans Saints’ $150 million man was not among them.”

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

So, what incredible passer should the Saints have selected instead. Should the Saints have given up 3 1st round draft picks to get to the top of the first round to get Stroud?

Dammit, don't you get it man. The team got the guy they could get with the resources they had at the time instead of overreaching for a prospect.

Unless you share a better idea of what can be done, these reports that are coming across your desk are pretty worthless.

SFIAH

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

These reports state the facts. Your “woulda shoulda coulda” hypotheticals mean nothing. Now you’re trolling me. Good luck with that.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

FARM TEAM

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

I will give you a straightforward analogy to answer this question. Lets say you really wanted to attend an event, be it your favorite bands concert, a big rally, a championship game, etc, and somehow scored last minute tickets. But unfortunately the event was across the country, and when you looked up last minute flights, they were all outside your price range. If you live in Seattle, and the event is in Miami, would it make sense to spend all the money you do have to buy plane tickets that get you to Chicago at the same time the event starts in Miami?

You couldn't get tickets to Miami? What should you have done, sell a kidney to afford the last minute flight to Miami? Turn a trick at the park? So you buy the ticket to Chicago instead because you got the best you could get with the resources you had a the time.

But the thing is, the event ain't in Chicago. Half way there is not there. When you land in Chicago at the time the concert starts in Miami, you guarantee missing the concert, and have flushed your entire bank account down the toilet to watch it rain in a place with different trees, and now you have less money in the future to buy tickets and travel to any future concert.

This is what the Saint's did with Carr, they settled for the guy who could only get them half way there. In theory, the Saints want to go to the Super Bowl, except for Guido who I believe said championships are not the goal and just wants to go 9-8 every year to save face and have rank as some sort of beta king of the NFC south. Carr will never get the Saints to the Super Bowl, even if he is better than the worst option. Neither will Dennis Allen. They are a ticket half way to the destination, but can't go all the way.

So what should you do if Carr is the best option you can afford? You should pick a worse option that costs less and save money so you can afford a better option later that is actually good enough to go all the way. Just like this person wanting to attend a concert in Miami should not buy a flight to Chicago, they should save their money, scalp the ticket, and save up until they have enough money to get a ticket and travel ALL THE WAY to their destination. This is called rebuilding. Its better than building for 9-8 every year with no patience, and sometimes when you take risks instead of the safe 9-8 known commodity you hit the jackpot earlier than expected so losing in a rebuild is no guarantee, while putting off a rebuild is a guarantee to never win.

Also, Arthur Blank's answer is that he would sell a kidney, turn a trick in the park, buy a ticket to Chicago, and buy a standby ticket to Miami. At least we didnt do that. He might get to Miami but it won't do him a lot of good if he can't sit down and he can't stand up.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

Salient points.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

This is pretty solid perspective imo. Although saving some $$ to rebuild is no guarantee of success and could lead to generational failure i.e. first 40 years of Saints existence..The million dollar question is, in my mind is do you half ass and strive for .500 like we are doing now to fill the stands and keep people employed or do you trade the pieces for draft capital, not live with middle of the pack FA (Carr), Play your draft picks. Then rebuild from the ground up AND Top Down. That's the discussion I think we all could have here on the black and gold.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

The fallacy with your analogy is that it is your opinion that Carr and Allen can't get us all the way there. I believe whole-heartedly that they can. They may, in fact, give us the best chance we'll see in the next few decades for all we know. Your hatred guides your every thought process. You make the narrative fit your hate. Not only do you blindly feel that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, but you see the grass beneath your feet as something vile and barren.

You have to face the fact that not everyone feels the way you do. There's the sinner guy and the cowpattie guy, of course, but that's sure nothing to hang your hat on. :D Pretty much everyone around here thinks they are just hate spewing flunkies, as well.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

Your million dollar question is pertinent.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

That sort of rebuilding commonly results in that generational failure that you mentioned. I've been living with my Saints since 1967 and what we have today is miles ahead of most of those dismal years.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

You’re clearly willing to wait “for the next few decades”, for Carr and Allen to fade through more mediocrity, into obscurity, assuming that you/we survive even one more season, let alone one decade, to watch the black and gold paint to continue to peel from the wall. You are quoted as saying, “Winning championships is not the goal”, which is all you really need to say. We don’t “hate” it, we just see it. Clearly.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

The only hatred apparently being displayed is that of losing. pointing out factual specifics of reality are not hate; such as AK being a thug, and #13 is a prima donna. Quido's assertion of anyone hating any specific person is ludicrous. :beatnik:

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

Sometimes you present yourself as the only Baby Boomer on this forum whose endured hardship and futility, intentional or not is irrelevant. But trust me, your not. As a Saints fan we've all endured futility and hardship. while yes, we may be in a better place than we have been in years past, but are we really championship quality or just mediocre. That's really the debate. I try to listen to everyone's two cents. You have have good points, Sinner has good points but I don't agree with everything anyone has to say. my .02 is something's missing...is it in personnel? Management? ownership? We have a good QB not great, we have a coach is he good enough to win a championship? not so sure.
Is it time for Mickey to move on? i believe it is.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

BINGO.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

watch out... when you point out reality and facts... you get demonized here. it is tough being right. :beatnik:

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

I believe SFIAH has addressed these questions himself and has failed to get any suggestions. How does replacing Carr guarantee he'd be able to be replaced by anyone better? The same goes for Dennis Allen. Who would be a replacement that guarantees the defense would remain as good as it is now and the team as a whole would be better? And what GM would be guaranteed to do a better job than Loomis?

Are we championship quality or just mediocre? I'd say we're closer to becoming championship quality than we might be if we flushed it all down the drain and started over. It just makes sense that it's easier to reach the top from the middle as opposed to starting at the bottom.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

It’s ok. At the end of the day, or the season, there are just as many of us, as there are them. Keep your little beatnik emoji alive!

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

Perhaps, but sometimes mediocrity is the highest level attained or attainable. Just because we are in the middle doesn't mean reaching the top is attainable.
Doesn't mean I hate the coach, GM or even certain players. Would you be happy with 5, 6 or 7 years down the road with a 7-10, 8-9, 9-8 maybe 10-7 record with no realistic chance of producing a SB? And I know you will say there's always a chance, but come on.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

He has already answered that, a million times since I have been calling for a complete rebuild, back when Drew was in decline and Sean had his eyes on the exit sign. That “woulda shoulda coulda” created a whole new conversation right about now, with fireworks about to be displayed by this season… but here we are.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

Another analogy:

You can want with every fiber of your being to date a "10", but that doesn't mean that a "10" is attainable for you. Nice to have, but not realistic... especially when you're a "5" or "6"!

The fact is that you may realistically have a shot at a "7" or "8". So the bigger question remains... are you REALLY going to blow up everything and hold out for that "10" instead of shooting your shot for what you can reasonably expect to get? Or do you wreck shop praying for a miracle?

Discuss.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

You walk into the dance and grab the 10 and look into her eyes and say, thank you for waiting (because you’re a gentleman) and you do the Tango with your trousers down around your ankles. You walk into the schoolyard and look around for the bully, and walk up to him and punch him in the mouth. You go for it on 4th and long. You do the freak onside kick, you strip the ball and run it back for a TD… or… you stay home and masturbate.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

The great football fandom paradox. Keep grinding to get to the top of the mountain, adding here adding there, or after years of trying you blow it up and try acknew. I used to think (back in the day) I'd go to bed with a 10 but would end up with a 2. Those that believe we are close opt for the 7 or 8 and those that don't keep swinging for the 10, keep swinging for the 10. I've never been a fan of blowing up the house, but not so sure we aren't getting close, Think this year everyone should be looking over their shoulders pretty close.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

saints need to set their sights on Arch Manning... build a formidable offense prior to his eligibility for the draft, and when he is eligible then do whatever it is necessary to obtain him or draft him; money, trade, or tank. :beatnik:

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

fallacy in your view it is only YOUR opinion.... get it. Everyone has one, some are right and some are wrong, such as yours. :beatnik:

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

He views his "OPINIONS" as "FACTS"

People with narcissistic personality disorder also have trouble handling anything they view as criticism.

They can:

Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special recognition or treatment.

Have major problems interacting with others and easily feel slighted.

React with rage or contempt and try to belittle other people to make themselves appear superior.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

See Guido the problem is you are paralyzed by fear, afraid of the team taking any risk, and willing to settle for being middle of the pack forever just out of fear of being left out of the pack.

1967 is not relevant today. Fearing a repeat of the Saints struggles from 1967-1986 is the fallacy because the conditions are so different that cannot happen again. This is a different league. The salary cap changed everything and much else has changed. Revenues have increased greatly and the shared revenues are so large that all teams are well funded. The media has gone from local newspaper reporters to 24/7 cable news, bloggers, podcasts, etc. Advanced stats and analytics are available to everyone. In the Saints early years they probably drafted picks their scouts had only seen play once or twice, or only read about in newspaper articles. Now a salary cap assures the Saints have similar resources to every team, if they fall behind they can lure away other teams players, no rival can afford to maintain incredible depth. The draft is coming down to a science with a lot more information than in those early years. The Saints will no longer draft a punter with the 1st round pick or keep trading away their 1st round picks for aging washed up stars because with lack of scouting data they did not really know who to pick and with financial pressure they needed immediate returns. They won't struggle with substandard practice facilities. Our division rivals won't be able to afford having Steve Young backup Joe Montana for 4 years, we will be able to sign one away if that happens.

Essentially Guido's goal for the Saints is the Marv Lewis Bengals. As he says, championships are not the goal, just being competitive and not having to relive the 67-86 Saints is the goal. Lewis's Bengals were 131-122 and has more winning seasons than losing seasons. And Marv Lewis is available, despite a much better coaching record than Dennis Allen.

But the thing is, in the post-free-agency NFL world, there are no 67-86 Saints, thats impossible, with free agency, a salary cap, and highly informed draft data nobody can be that bad that long ever again. Teams like the Bengals are the closest thing to the modern equivalent. The worst teams since the inception of free agency that come to mind are the Bengals, Browns, Raiders, Jets, etc. All those teams have gone to the playoffs. Two have gone to Super Bowls. And what is Guido's formula to avoid becoming like the 67-86 Saints? Get the Raiders head coach. Try to outbid the Browns for a troubled QB. When that fails, beat the Jets in a free agent bidding war for the Raiders QB. And be incredibly excited when in his 5th year of head coaching, facing one of the easiest schedules in history, your head coach has one season where his winning percentage resembles Bengals Marvin Lewis's career winning percentage.

Essentially what Guido has done is imprinted his fear of the worst that was possible 40-60 years ago so deeply in his psyche that he is willing to accept the worst that is possible in the modern NFL as a good favorable acceptable outcome. It is not. Dennis Allen is by all measures a worse head coach than Marvin Lewis. Derek Carr is getting closer to an aging Andy Dalton than a prime Andy Dalton. You can look at the Browns and complain about their many coaching and QB changes, but ultimately would it have been better if the Browns stuck with Butch Davis and Tim Couch? The Bills found Josh Allen after years of struggle. The Bengals found Joe Burrow after years of struggle. QBs like Drew Bledsoe and Andy Dalton did not prevent those years of struggle, they were part of them.

The message I have for Guido is to stop fearing and start dreaming, and don't be afraid to dream too big. Derek Carr is probably not the dream. Dennis Allen is probably not the dream. But the nightmare of the 67-86 Saints is the past. That can't happen in the modern in NFL with the salary cap, free agency, lots of data, and lessons learned. Lowering our standards to where the floor of the current NFL landscape is at may protect you from disappointment but it is no way to achieve success. Raise your standards. Make championships the goal. And then we may win some.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

Salient. Precise.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

You have the right to wish for what you wish. I have the right to hope for what I hope. Neither is guaranteed. Repeating it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again every day in every thread makes you far too easy to ignore (not referring to the available function), but is now resulting in many members totally ignoring the forum altogether having become completely exhausted with the constant drivel. You, sir, are full of crap and enjoy sharing it ad nauseum. Just stating fact. ;)

:bng:

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

LITERALLY… EVERYTHING… WORD FOR WORD, ^^^ THAT YOU JUST WROTE…

Please read it out loud TO YOURSELF while looking in the mirror. PLEASE.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

He's no Billy Joe. :)

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

Carr hasn't performed like a top 10 QB. Why is this an argument?

It's not to say he "can't" or "won't" have a top 10 season in the future, he's just fallen short of expectations including his own I'd have to assume.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

Mid tier QB most of his career.

And the fourth oldest starter …

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

haters gonna hate.... :rofl: :beatnik:

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

He's the 15th highest paid QB.

Going in, I expected him to perform around that range but that's when I thought Carmichael had a pulse.

With Kubiak coming in, I just want him to execute the offense and avoid turnovers.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

The thing is, I don't think anyone gets paid to be the 15th best QB. I think teams pay for someone they hope can be the 5-10th best QB and take a discount for uncertainty. It sounds fine to be the 15th QB in both pay and performance (though Carr was closer to 20 in performance overall last year), like a square deal, but the truth is that there is that the 15th best QB rarely wins it all, and there is not a ton of difference in performance between QB15, QB20, and QB25 while there can be a massive difference in cost. Lets face it, if the Chiefs are paying Mahomes QB10 money, we are paying Carr QB15 money, and the Texans are paying Stroud QB25 money, we ain't coming home with a ring.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

I'm giving Carr another year before I say his contract was a mistake. Pete had one foot out the door. O line was atrocious.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

Salient points.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

Not sure where the Carr being "fourth oldest starter" came from. All of the following who started multiple games other than Rodgers were as old or older than Carr last season.

A. Rodgers 40
Joe Flacco 38
Stafford 35
Wilson 35
Cousins 35
Tannehill 35
Tyrod Taylor 35
Geno Smith 33
Jimmy Garoppolo 32

Carr 32

Dak Prescott 30

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

32 on Derek Carr feels like 64.

I’d take Flacco at 38 in a hearbeat.

Re: ESPN polled dozens of NFL personnel to rank the game’s best quarterbacks, but Derek Carr didn’t receive a single vote. 18 other passers did:
 

You have a solid point. No hyperbole, just metrics.

I can hold out one more year with a REAL OC in charge.