Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

Bryan Bresee has 3 sacks. If you look only at that one stat, he is a promising player. But look deeper and there may be trouble.

Bressee leads all Saints DT's in snap count through Week 4 with 173 so its not a small sample size thing:

https://www.footballguys.com/stats/s...m=NO&year=2024

Bresee's 36.7 PFF score is the second lowest on the Saints team, behind only Bub Means, who only has 18 snaps on the year.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/bryan-bresee/122142

But how could Bresee have such a low score with 3 sacks. PFF must be made up. He would have to be doing nothing else, just taking every other play off, to have such a low score.

While Bresee has 3 sacks, he only has 3 tackles for a loss, and 4 total tackles on the season. That means in 4 games he has only 1 tackle that is not a sack. He is doing nothing other than those 3 sacks.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...s/nor/2024.htm

Looking at our team defensive stats Granderson has 15 tackles, Young has 11, Shepherd has 11, even Foskey has 7 (on 14 total snaps) which is perhaps why Foskey is not as low rated as you would think for 0 sacks.

Isiah Foskey produced 7 non-sack tackles in 14 snaps this year. Bryan Bresee produced 1 non-sack tackle in 173 snaps. Isiah Foskey has been 85.5x more effective in non-sack dline production than Bressee. We literally might improve our run defense greatly by moving Foskey to DT and benching Bresee.

I don't study tape or subscribe to advanced stats, but it sure looks like Bressee is a pure 1 category player this year. Last season he had 539 snaps, similar to Shepherd and Saunders (they were all 523-594) but he only had 19.5 non-sack tackles in 17 games, basically 1 play per game outside of rushing the QB. Shepherd and Saunders both had about 3x the production with non-sack tackles. Roach in half the snaps had double the non-sack tackles of Bresee.

On his career Bressee has 7.5 sacks and 10 tackles for a loss, so it appears that in 712 career snaps, Bryan Bresee has tackled a RB for a loss 2.5 times, which for all we know were on a runs to line up the ball for a field goal or kill the clock or something. You would assume he got a couple of those so basically zero effective run defense in 712 snaps for Bressee.

Bresee did have another dimension to his game last year, with 6 passes defended, probably batting down balls, but this year he has none. He may be regressing in his other skills and overwhelmed by being asked to play non-passing downs.

Many pass rushers make an impact with QB hits. Granderson has 11.5 sacks but 24 total QB hits the past 2 years. Bressee had 9 QB hits to 4.5 sacks last year. But this year he is 3 and 3, no extra QB hits in non sack situations. Young has only half a sack this year, but 7 QB hits.

Bressee had a limited game last year but got some sacks, some extra QB hits, and batted down some balls. This year he is playing more, leading our DT in snaps, and had seemingly done nothing but the 3 sacks, 1 strip, and 1 other tackle. Against the run, we have 10 men on the field when he is in.

Trey Hendrickson might have had similar issues against the run with the Saints, but he played DE so I think that may be different. I am not sure we can afford an extreme liability against the run right in the middle of our defense. I am also not sure Bressee has the value of Hendrickson as a pass rusher. I feel like Hendrickson got to the QB quick and forced bad decisions, whereas Bressee picks up sacks later in plays, when nobody is open, the pocket is breaking down, and Bressee is the pass rusher with the longer reach who gets a last minute spin move when the QB thought it was safe to get close because he wasnt pushing the olineman around.

In contrast to Bressee, Carl Granderson was 3rd on the Saints team in tackles last season with 78 and is on pace for 64 this year. That is how Granderson is an 88 in PFF and Bressee is a 36 despite the same number of sacks. Carl Granderson may be a $30 million a year player down the road. Bressee may be a situational pass rusher barely worth more than a few million.

Nobody is talking about it so I just wanted to do some research on why Bressee's PFF score is so low. It appears he is a liability in the running game more than Penning is a liability in the passing game. Maybe he will develop down the road but so far this year he seems to have become a more one dimensional sack chaser as his playing time has increased on non-passing downs. For the moment the Saints might do better if they gave snaps to any other dlineman at DT on passing downs.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

That’s definitely an interesting statistic. And almost seems impossible that WTFoskey has more tackles than Bresee. That’s insane.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

DT has to be one of the most difficult and therefore inaccurate positions to "stat" for.

Stunts, twists, double teams... a good DT does not always make the stat sheet.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

Didn’t Bresee register 4 solo tackles & 2 QB hurries vs Philly?

Take PFF scores with a grain of salt.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

According to pro football reference advanced stats, Bresee only has 1 hurry in addition to his 3 sacks this season. All stat sources agree that Bressee only has 1 non-sack tackle all year.

Granderson has 14 plays impacting the QB this year, 3 sacks, 1 additional knockdown, and 10 hurries.

Bresee only has the 3 sacks and 1 hurry, no additional knockdowns.

As much as stats are hard to account for at DT, we see RBs running up the middle against us and we see Bresee with 173 snaps and 1 tackle of a RB. Stunts, spins, and twists are great, but the fact is that the opposing RB's are getting 1st downs on us while Bresee is out there doing the Macarena.

I am thinking maybe Foskey is getting those tackles on special teams. Still 7 tackles on 14 snaps is a ton. Its not like he is getting those tackles being targeted in coverage.

I take PFF scores with a grain of salt, but the 88 vs 36 pff score difference between Granderson and Bressee is 52 grains of salt, and they start to add up that all sacks are not created equal. Granderson is a menace in all phases of the game who could be holding out for a $30 million contract in 2026. Bressee is a 1 dimensional sack garbage man.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

Bako, while I think you have some good points, I don’t think it’s fair to compare a DE to a DT. Dude those are very different positions with very different responsibilities. And for the most part, DE’s yield more sacks than DT’s.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

It's about being involved in stopping the down. He's one of three things: 1) getting blocked out of the play and therefore losing the matchup, 2) on the wrong side of the flow, i.e., the play is run away from him, or 3) he's making poor decisions on how to engage when the play is run at him - bad angles.

to have 173 snaps, 81 against the run, and one tackle? I agree, something's not right.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

Sorry I was trying to contrast more than compare. I agree that DE's are supposed to yield more sacks. I am not complaining about Bressee's ability to yield sacks. I am complaining that Bressee appears to produce nothing but yield sacks. A DT is supposed to have more responsibility than a DE to stop runs up the middle, but Bressee has 1 tackle of a non-QB this year and 2.5 tackles for a loss of a non-QB in his career. I am not citing DE's to say Bressee needs to do their job, I am contrasting him with DE's to say he needs to do his, unless he wants to switch positions to a 3rd down DE. He needs to stop the run.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

He has not been an impactful player to the untrained eye. At the same time, the defense has more than done its job. Stats are not the be all end all. The jury is still out.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

Adequate but not great in any regard.

He often does a great job at beating blocks in pass protection and then ends up missing sacks. I counted 3 already where the QB has escape the arm tackles he's tried.

Doesn't seem to stand out in any run defense situations. Teams have had a decent amount of success running on us, especially up the gut.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

To put things in perspective, Calais Campbell is 38 years old and playing DT this year. He has 50 less snaps than Bresee this year. On the season Campbell has 10 non-sack tackles including 2 for a loss, half of each coming in the last game, and I watched him stuff a run behind the line of scrimmage last night. Bresee has 1 and 0 on the season.

I looked into Bresee's past game logs and play by plays and of his 3 career tackles for a loss of a running back, two were in the final 3 minutes of the 4th quarter with the opponent ahead, running down the clock as their primary objective. The last on and only time Bresee tackled a running back for a loss outside the final minutes of the game was 1 year ago, on 10/1/2023.

This play is at 22 seconds in the highlight video below. It looks like a missed blocking assignment as Bresee gets straight through with no block and no apparent move, just runs in a straight line.


Bresee is a big tall guy, but at DT he is kind of this big lumbering tall guy with a high center of gravity and no push trying to spin and grab for sacks. We need a bulldozer. We have a crane. It seems like most of his sacks are where he is in the right time at the right place and can happen to grab the QB or a lane opens up straight to the QB with no blockers.

If you compare to highlights for Jason Carter, a player we could have had if we didnt trade our pick to Philly, Carter plays a lot more like a bulldozer. He impacts the line of scrimmage. He pushes blockers aside or goes through them. He hits with his body not just his arms. He imposes fear. Bresee seems to dance with the oline, throwing his hands in the air like he just dont care in hopes of batting a pass, until a straight line to the QB opens up or somebody runs near him that he can try to grab.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

I've never been a huge fan, even when he was drafted. Honestly, he's turned out better than I expected, but I still think he's a flawed player.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

My thoughts as well. He's a situational DT.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

Certainly a better draft pick than WTFoskey... Or Peyton Turner.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

Should we blame Sean Payton for the Peyton Turner selection :p ?

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

I don't necessarily agree.

Bryan Bresee's PFF scores for 23 and 24 are 45.5 and 36.7.

Foskey's are 62.2 and 61.4. Foskey may not have the sacks but when he is on the field he does try to tackle runners. Like I say we could consider moving Foskey to DT where he would cover the traditional responsibilities of one better than Bresee.

Turner's pff scores go back to 2021 and are 64.6, 69.6, 60.5, and 72.5 but obviously Turner has been hurt a lot. When healthy, he is clearly better than Breseee.

Neither Foskey nor Turner have ever had a season pff score within a full grade of being as low as Bresee's best score. I know some people discount those scores but I think they mean something. I think when people review the tape they see Bresee almost never impacting the run game, and that a large portion of his sacks are more related to other pass rushers driving the QB toward Bresee, who never beat his own man, but then can just reach and bring down the QB, or disengage from the oline and get to the qb behind or beside him. And yet still Bresee misses many of these opportunities.

If Penning can go from looking bad and barely playing many games to being a seemingly competent starter at times in year 3, maybe Foskey can too, who knows. And maybe Turner can overcome injuries though I would never trust him with a big contract. Bresee needs to overcome arm tackling, not impacting the line of scrimmage, and ignoring the run game.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

What about your salary cap angle? :confused:

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

None of them affect the cap much. Turner will be a free agent but based on his history he might be less expensive next year if we keep him on a 1 year deal.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

After 7 games, Bryan Bresee still has a pff rating of 36.7 which is poor to very poor.

This is an interesting piece under pff.com/grades that likely explains Bresee's score too:

"Not all sacks are created equal. Beasley sacked the quarterback 16 times, but eight of those sixteen were either unblocked or clean-up sacks that owed more to somebody else flushing the quarterback towards where Beasley was than they did to him beating a blocker to make the play. PFF grading takes into account the quality of the play made to get the sack, and excellent plays to defeat blocks will be graded higher than sacks where the quarterback just happened to be flushed past a player as he was being blocked only to get taken down."

Bresee still does not have a tackle for a loss against a RB this season.

Bresee is currently the second lowest ranked player on the Saints entire roster in PFF scores. Only Johnathan Abram at 35.1 is slightly worse. Foskey is better. All the oline are better. Khristian Boyd, John Ridgeway, and Kendal Vickers are all over a full grade better. Cam Jordan could lose 15 pounds and be a more effective DT with 0 sacks.

Either Bresee should be a weekly inactive to shore up our running game, or we should look to pawn him off on another team that only looks at his sack stats for a 3rd round pick or so. He is a much worse pick than Turner or Davenport and at this point does not belong in the NFL because he cant defend the run.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

At this point, we must be fair and blame DA for the failures. Isn't the the DC also? Bresee is a good player. Saints need an infusion of new leadership, not just players.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

Why is Bresee a good player? Because he looks big and has a few clean up sacks? Maybe he could be good. Maybe he couldn't. With new coaching or more time we may find out but so far he is a bust and the data says Foskey has a better chance to be a star. When Bresee plays our run defense is the worst in the league it seems. I will go with what the data says. The data says Bresee is the worst bust of all recent Saints first round picks at this point in his career and is worth than a year 2 Penning, Foskey, Ruiz, Turner, Davenport, etc and is the second worst player on a roster full of street free agents and undrafted rookies. He is a highlight hunter who has less than zero concern about any responsibilities in the run game. If we play the Jets, I would worry about our ability to contain Aaron Rodgers as rushing threat up the middle.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

When it comes to DT I'm more than happy woth 2 mid/later rounds big men that can stop the run first and foremost and if you can find a pass rusher DT when the rosters near complete

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

He is a liability because he does not produce. End of story.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

He produces some sacks because he is a big lanky guy with long arms who QBs will run towards to run away from Granderson when the pocket breaks down, but they are not very valuable sacks, mostly someone else would have got the QB a yard later if he didnt. He produces some batted passes because he is tall. But he is horrible in run defense and doesn't create pressure unless the oline misses an assignment and he is unblocked. Overall, he is an extreme liability on the field.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

His grades are horrible, but 6 sacks from a DT is really high production all things considered. Elite production tbh.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

He is a classic example of when the production and stats don't match - only the opposite way around from the usual example.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

For some reason PFF is currently showing some premium breakdown stats that they usually don't show.

While Bresee's PFF score rose all the way to 38 (still lowest that I know of on the team) with his big game two weeks ago, its down to 37.8 again, so he couldn't sustain just the worst production on the team.

PFF is now showing a breakdown of that 37.8 grade: 57.1 pass rush and 28.3 run defense grade. 28.3 run defense grade is good for 212th of 213 defensive interior players.

Everyone said Bresee's kick block was an incredibly athletic play and I just don't see it. He looked incredibly awkward, like Rocksteady or Beebop jumping in a Ninja Turtles game my kid plays at Chuck E Cheese, and looked like he was crumpling down with a risk of tearing a ligament on the landing as he blocked the kick.

Some other telling stats, Bresee is 19th in total snaps, but 107th in solo tackles and 129th in assists.

Bresee's run defense is not a minor detail. It is like Kadarius Toney's hands. It is like Jameis Winston's pick sixes. It is like Diontae Johnson and Devondre Campbells motivation. It is like Walter Thomas's endurance.

7.5 sacks may sound like amazing production but would you agree to play defense with 10 men on the field all game in return for pushing your opponent back 10 yards on one play? That is the reality of starting Bresee. That is why he is the lowest ranked players on the Saints team when you look at every play not just the average of one highlight reel play per game.

If the Saints are smart, they will trade Bresee in the offseason to a team that isnt. Or they will fire their defensive line coach and bring in competition and not just reward mediocrity with infinity snaps.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

I get all that at the same time, he's young and relatively inexpensive. We have time to continue to develop him. What kind of return do we realistically think we can get for him? 3-5 round draft pick? I'd rather just hold on to him for that.

We're likely going to have a coaching overhaul this off season and I hope we can get some premium position coaches to attempt to get better production from the guys we've drafted first. It's a bit early to cut bait here. If anything, give him all the snaps he can take. We don't really have nothing to play for and we should get him as much experience as possible. That game tape will be very helpful for the next sets of coaches that will be brought in.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

If we're having the discussion then we already know the answer. But I'll still take 1 Bresee over 50 Jonathan Sullivans.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

You can normally find good run suffers who don't generate much pressure in the mid rounds and as cheaper Free Agents. Go and find a 320lb plus space blocker who can anchor the line next to him, then rotate him in and out and keep him fresh

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

I don't think it would be impossible that some team could take a shallow look at the stats and trade a late 1st or early 2nd round pick for Bresee. I read that Woody Johnson bases roster decisions on his kids Madden exploits and overrules his front office. If we could get a pick in the first half of the second round for Bresee, I would trade him. If we can't, I agree, he is still worth trying to coach up.

I dont think putting another 1 dimensional run stuffer with the opposite skill set next to Bresee will solve all our problems. One problem that could create is if that run stuffer ever missed time we have the worst run defense in the league. And if Bresee doesn't miss time, its not clear the run defense can ever be elite with a one dimensional player covering for another.

Re: Is Bryan Bresee a Liability despite Sacks?
 

Is that why Roach is now playing in Denver?