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BakoSaint 10-05-2024 12:46 PM
Re: Davante Adams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 1002727)
I'm hearing that "hamstring injury" would mysteriously disappear on a different roster. It won't be the first time, nor the last, that a player's agent has used that tactic to garner a trade.
Maybe Evan Engram's hamstring injury would disappear too, the Jaguars are 0-4 compared to the Raiders at 2-2.

The Titans thought Julio Jones nagging injuries would disappear with a trade.

The Giant thought Darren Waller's nagging injuries would disappear with a trade.

Brandin Cooks, 9 months younger than Davante Adams, went on IR today.

Father time is undefeated, and if there were two groups who had the best idea if Adams was already starting to succumb to it, they would be the team / front office who are offering him up for trade, and PFF who graded every snap he played and show a steady decline with just enough skill left to fool the eyes on a few big plays but nowhere near the consistency.

If we were dominating the whole league already on course to win a ring, I could see trading for Adams as a 1 year rental, knowing that we lack depth at WR, and he could step in if Olave or Shaheed goes down and keep us on trade. But I dont think he is better than Olave or Shaheed anymore. PFF scores dont indicate he has really been better since 2022. And he does not offer something way different, he is another deep threat edge guy who doesn't need to be taking hits over the middle. So he would be used for depth and rotation. That does not make us way better, but keeps us more steady on course for where we are already heading in one rare scenario that the main future injury challenge we face happens to be at WR not QB, more oline, defense, Kamara, etc, at a big cost to future years cap (even if we cut him, we owe money on the restructures used to make room to sign him), some draft picks we desperately need, and a big risk if he were injured and could not be cut and we had to pay him $36 million next year to be Bucs Julio Jones. The thing is, we are looking like an 8-10 win team right now, a team that could sneak into the wild card, maybe have a 1-in-3 chance to upset a team like the Bucs or Seahawks on the road, and then get knocked out by a stronger team. Its not worth mortgaging the future to take a flier on protecting that result from WR injury. We aren't on track for a ring, and he is not the player who puts us on track for one, because he addresses none of our biggest weaknesses: oline, dline, possession WR / TE who can attack the middle of the field. The best place to address those is the draft. The cheapest and most practical way to address them in season is TE.

rezburna 10-05-2024 12:57 PM
Re: Davante Adams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakoSaint (Post 1002735)
Maybe Evan Engram's hamstring injury would disappear too, the Jaguars are 0-4 compared to the Raiders at 2-2.

The Titans thought Julio Jones nagging injuries would disappear with a trade.

The Giant thought Darren Waller's nagging injuries would disappear with a trade.

Brandin Cooks, 9 months younger than Davante Adams, went on IR today.

Father time is undefeated, and if there were two groups who had the best idea if Adams was already starting to succumb to it, they would be the team / front office who are offering him up for trade, and PFF who graded every snap he played and show a steady decline with just enough skill left to fool the eyes on a few big plays but nowhere near the consistency.

If we were dominating the whole league already on course to win a ring, I could see trading for Adams as a 1 year rental, knowing that we lack depth at WR, and he could step in if Olave or Shaheed goes down and keep us on trade. But I dont think he is better than Olave or Shaheed anymore. PFF scores dont indicate he has really been better since 2022. And he does not offer something way different, he is another deep threat edge guy who doesn't need to be taking hits over the middle. So he would be used for depth and rotation. That does not make us way better, but keeps us more steady on course for where we are already heading in one rare scenario that the main future injury challenge we face happens to be at WR not QB, more oline, defense, Kamara, etc, at a big cost to future years cap (even if we cut him, we owe money on the restructures used to make room to sign him), some draft picks we desperately need, and a big risk if he were injured and could not be cut and we had to pay him $36 million next year to be Bucs Julio Jones. The thing is, we are looking like an 8-10 win team right now, a team that could sneak into the wild card, maybe have a 1-in-3 chance to upset a team like the Bucs or Seahawks on the road, and then get knocked out by a stronger team. Its not worth mortgaging the future to take a flier on protecting that result from WR injury. We aren't on track for a ring, and he is not the player who puts us on track for one, because he addresses none of our biggest weaknesses: oline, dline, possession WR / TE who can attack the middle of the field. The best place to address those is the draft. The cheapest and most practical way to address them in season is TE.
I wouldn’t be mad at Engram. Definitely improves the roster.

AsylumGuido 10-05-2024 01:42 PM
Re: Davante Adams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakoSaint (Post 1002735)
Maybe Evan Engram's hamstring injury would disappear too, the Jaguars are 0-4 compared to the Raiders at 2-2.

The Titans thought Julio Jones nagging injuries would disappear with a trade.

The Giant thought Darren Waller's nagging injuries would disappear with a trade.

Brandin Cooks, 9 months younger than Davante Adams, went on IR today.

Father time is undefeated, and if there were two groups who had the best idea if Adams was already starting to succumb to it, they would be the team / front office who are offering him up for trade, and PFF who graded every snap he played and show a steady decline with just enough skill left to fool the eyes on a few big plays but nowhere near the consistency.

If we were dominating the whole league already on course to win a ring, I could see trading for Adams as a 1 year rental, knowing that we lack depth at WR, and he could step in if Olave or Shaheed goes down and keep us on trade. But I dont think he is better than Olave or Shaheed anymore. PFF scores dont indicate he has really been better since 2022. And he does not offer something way different, he is another deep threat edge guy who doesn't need to be taking hits over the middle. So he would be used for depth and rotation. That does not make us way better, but keeps us more steady on course for where we are already heading in one rare scenario that the main future injury challenge we face happens to be at WR not QB, more oline, defense, Kamara, etc, at a big cost to future years cap (even if we cut him, we owe money on the restructures used to make room to sign him), some draft picks we desperately need, and a big risk if he were injured and could not be cut and we had to pay him $36 million next year to be Bucs Julio Jones. The thing is, we are looking like an 8-10 win team right now, a team that could sneak into the wild card, maybe have a 1-in-3 chance to upset a team like the Bucs or Seahawks on the road, and then get knocked out by a stronger team. Its not worth mortgaging the future to take a flier on protecting that result from WR injury. We aren't on track for a ring, and he is not the player who puts us on track for one, because he addresses none of our biggest weaknesses: oline, dline, possession WR / TE who can attack the middle of the field. The best place to address those is the draft. The cheapest and most practical way to address them in season is TE.
I guess you totally misunderstood the "disappearing hamstring". There are serious doubts that Adams truly has any hamstring injury. They addressed this yesterday afternoon on NFL Radio in a segment with Dr. David Chou, @profootballdoc. He said there's no way to know for sure if a player that wants (or is instructed) to hold out truly has a given injury in many cases. A hamstring is one of those. He said he had encountered that himself over the years saying the player would be dealt and "miraculously" is able to play right away with his new team.

K Major 10-06-2024 12:04 PM
Re: Davante Adams
 
Adams won’t make much of a difference playing with the Jets.

ARod looks close to being washed.

BakoSaint 10-06-2024 01:25 PM
Re: Davante Adams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 1002737)
I guess you totally misunderstood the "disappearing hamstring". There are serious doubts that Adams truly has any hamstring injury. They addressed this yesterday afternoon on NFL Radio in a segment with Dr. David Chou, @profootballdoc. He said there's no way to know for sure if a player that wants (or is instructed) to hold out truly has a given injury in many cases. A hamstring is one of those. He said he had encountered that himself over the years saying the player would be dealt and "miraculously" is able to play right away with his new team.
No I didn't misunderstand. I just contended that Engram's hamstring injury could be fake too. He could be fed up with the Jags and looking to play for a contender. Likewise, its hard to tell if all of our injured players are really injured. Lattimore, Thomas, and Winston were 'injured' a lot last year, and it could be that they were just in DA's dog house. Likewise who knows if AT Perry is actually injured or if the team is diagnosing him with some made up stuff to justify cutting him because he somehow took Winston's side on the victory formation thing.

My point is that I don't care if Adams is 100% healthy. He is also 100% 31 years and 9 months old. Basically the same age as Julio Jones when traded to the Titans. He is a player whose pff scores have declined from the 90's in 2022 and prior to 79 in 2023 to 64 in 2024. 64 is still enough to make a few plays if the ball is forced his way but would make him our #3 WR. But with that rate of decline it won't be enough to even be a #3 WR or regular contributor in 2025, in 2025 he projects to be Bucs Julio Jones. But we could risk paying our #4/5 WR $36 million next year if he is injured this year and can't be cut. I would rather not give up draft picks and considerable money for a #3 WR with a potential poison pill to nuke our 2025 cap.

It's also possible the Raiders know Adams has lost a step and they, not his agent, are encouraging him to sit out while demanding a trade. If he has lost a step, the more tape there is to show it, the lower his trade value. They also may be hesitant to risk owing him $36 million in 2025 if he tears his ACL. If Adams has lost a step, having him sit out so no more damning evidence makes it to the tape, and simultaneously engineering a whispering campaign that he is 100% but just wants a trade, is actually a great strategy from the Raiders to maximize his value. Maybe the Saints could have got picks for Lattimore in trade if they had convinced teams he has been injury free and only missed games to angle for a trade and is still the same player as a few years ago.

If we win against the Chiefs, indicating we are more competitive than I think, I could see adding Adams if the cost is cheap, the Raiders cover a bit of his salary, and he would agree to a fundamentally different contract that does not put $36 million on the books for 2025. A reasonable agreement could be to change his 2025 and 2026 salaries to $8 million but give him the ability to opt out either year. This way he has some protection from injury but not $36 million protection from injury. The end result is the same that he would likely either be a 1 year rental or have to renegotiate again to stay, but for the rest of THIS season having $8 million on the books if he tears an ACL like Dez Bryant is MUCH MUCH safer than being on the hook for $36 million if he pulls a Dez.

If we lose against the Chiefs, I think we need to wait for the Bucs game to make any moves. If we lose to the Bucs too, I think we need to consider being sellers in the trade market. A wise man once said that you need to know when to hold them and know when to fold them. That doesn't mean you never fold them because you try to win every hand until the end no matter what the cost is.

Rugby Saint II 10-06-2024 02:13 PM
Re: Davante Adams
 
Maybe we should get an offensive lineman to give our quarterback and receivers more time

K Major 10-06-2024 02:58 PM
Re: Davante Adams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 1002755)
Maybe we should get an offensive lineman to give our quarterback and receivers more time
The Saints addressed it by signing Connor McGovern.

With Shane Lemieux (sp) out tomorrow, there is a good chance that Connor will start vs. KC.

AsylumGuido 10-06-2024 04:06 PM
Re: Davante Adams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakoSaint (Post 1002753)
No I didn't misunderstand. I just contended that Engram's hamstring injury could be fake too. He could be fed up with the Jags and looking to play for a contender. Likewise, its hard to tell if all of our injured players are really injured. Lattimore, Thomas, and Winston were 'injured' a lot last year, and it could be that they were just in DA's dog house. Likewise who knows if AT Perry is actually injured or if the team is diagnosing him with some made up stuff to justify cutting him because he somehow took Winston's side on the victory formation thing.

My point is that I don't care if Adams is 100% healthy. He is also 100% 31 years and 9 months old. Basically the same age as Julio Jones when traded to the Titans. He is a player whose pff scores have declined from the 90's in 2022 and prior to 79 in 2023 to 64 in 2024. 64 is still enough to make a few plays if the ball is forced his way but would make him our #3 WR. But with that rate of decline it won't be enough to even be a #3 WR or regular contributor in 2025, in 2025 he projects to be Bucs Julio Jones. But we could risk paying our #4/5 WR $36 million next year if he is injured this year and can't be cut. I would rather not give up draft picks and considerable money for a #3 WR with a potential poison pill to nuke our 2025 cap.

It's also possible the Raiders know Adams has lost a step and they, not his agent, are encouraging him to sit out while demanding a trade. If he has lost a step, the more tape there is to show it, the lower his trade value. They also may be hesitant to risk owing him $36 million in 2025 if he tears his ACL. If Adams has lost a step, having him sit out so no more damning evidence makes it to the tape, and simultaneously engineering a whispering campaign that he is 100% but just wants a trade, is actually a great strategy from the Raiders to maximize his value. Maybe the Saints could have got picks for Lattimore in trade if they had convinced teams he has been injury free and only missed games to angle for a trade and is still the same player as a few years ago.

If we win against the Chiefs, indicating we are more competitive than I think, I could see adding Adams if the cost is cheap, the Raiders cover a bit of his salary, and he would agree to a fundamentally different contract that does not put $36 million on the books for 2025. A reasonable agreement could be to change his 2025 and 2026 salaries to $8 million but give him the ability to opt out either year. This way he has some protection from injury but not $36 million protection from injury. The end result is the same that he would likely either be a 1 year rental or have to renegotiate again to stay, but for the rest of THIS season having $8 million on the books if he tears an ACL like Dez Bryant is MUCH MUCH safer than being on the hook for $36 million if he pulls a Dez.

If we lose against the Chiefs, I think we need to wait for the Bucs game to make any moves. If we lose to the Bucs too, I think we need to consider being sellers in the trade market. A wise man once said that you need to know when to hold them and know when to fold them. That doesn't mean you never fold them because you try to win every hand until the end no matter what the cost is.
Sorry. Not wasting my time reading all that. Why is it beyond you to give straight forward replies as apposed to novellas?

iceshack149 10-07-2024 10:45 AM
Re: Davante Adams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 1002727)
I'm hearing that "hamstring injury" would mysteriously disappear on a different roster. It won't be the first time, nor the last, that a player's agent has used that tactic to garner a trade.
Perhaps similar to Kendre Miller...

iceshack149 10-07-2024 10:48 AM
Re: Davante Adams
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 1002765)
Sorry. Not wasting my time reading all that. Why is it beyond you to give straight forward replies as apposed to novellas?
Why discourage someone from giving a well thought out post?


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