Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed

BakoSaint · 07-07-2025, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Devils Advocate

Merriam-Webster
Collusion - secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose.

Just because the public does not know, does not make it a secrete or illegal. Also, lets not forget that everyone but the agents are employees of the same company.

Discussing the avoidance of fully guaranteed contracts as a general policy within the same company is a far stretch from collusion. The NFLPA wants to frame it as collusion because they want their players to get guaranteed contracts but no one else is concerned.

Lord knows how poorly players have performed after that big guaranteed payout. No guarantee is better for competition.

Legally, the problem is that it is not one company with legitimate outside competitors, it is 32 separate companies that work together to reduce outside competition. That is like if Walmart, Target, Kohls, Home Depot, Lowes, Dollar General, Rite Aid, CVS, Walgreens, Dollar Tree, etc all got together and discussed the importance of none offering sick leave. They are supposed to compete, in theory, and in return for the degree to which they don't (like the salary cap) it is supposed to be negotiated with the players.

But alas, as a fan, guaranteed contracts are not my problem. The salary cap is my problem, because without it, the Super Bowl is LA vs NY most years, or other big markets, and we are the Drays or something.

AsylumGuido · 07-07-2025, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Legally, the problem is that it is not one company with legitimate outside competitors, it is 32 separate companies that work together to reduce outside competition. That is like if Walmart, Target, Kohls, Home Depot, Lowes, Dollar General, Rite Aid, CVS, Walgreens, Dollar Tree, etc all got together and discussed the importance of none offering sick leave. They are supposed to compete, in theory, and in return for the degree to which they don't (like the salary cap) it is supposed to be negotiated with the players.

But alas, as a fan, guaranteed contracts are not my problem. The salary cap is my problem, because without it, the Super Bowl is LA vs NY most years, or other big markets, and we are the Drays or something.

The salary cap isn't your problem at all, Bako. Your problem is that you think it is your problem. It is what it is. To obsess over it as a fan is meaningless and to a degree unhealthy. To compulsively obsess over the cap and the person responsible is likely a disorder. It sounds like a version of OCD to me.

BakoSaint · 07-08-2025, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

The salary cap isn't your problem at all, Bako. Your problem is that you think it is your problem. It is what it is. To obsess over it as a fan is meaningless and to a degree unhealthy. To compulsively obsess over the cap and the person responsible is likely a disorder. It sounds like a version of OCD to me.

The salary cap is a part of football. To argue that fans should ignore it is as ridiculous as arguing that fans should ignore the draft, the record, the score, or the down and distance of the game. They all play key roles in the teams success. Just as player nearing the sidelines may score if they don't cross out of bounds before they reach the goal line, a team may be able to assemble a dynasty level roster if they can add quality young talent without reaching the point where they are limited by the salary cap and have to stick with the senior tour instead to kick the can.

The only difference with the salary cap is that it involves middle school level math, whereas the rest involve early elementary school level math skills such as counting and basic addition and subtraction. Middle School math intimidates too much of the audience for the media to be willing to cover it in detail, once you start busting out x = (y-1)/5 to explain how a restructure prorates money, a lot of people think that its quantum physics or 'wizardry.' Many tune out or click away, but its seriously more like 7th grade and I try to explain and analyze it since the media won't. As a more neglected aspect of football competition, I take an interest in it. Sorry if you think anyone who likes 7th grade math must have Asperger's or something, but its really not all that.

AsylumGuido · 07-09-2025, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

The salary cap is a part of football. To argue that fans should ignore it is as ridiculous as arguing that fans should ignore the draft, the record, the score, or the down and distance of the game. They all play key roles in the teams success. Just as player nearing the sidelines may score if they don't cross out of bounds before they reach the goal line, a team may be able to assemble a dynasty level roster if they can add quality young talent without reaching the point where they are limited by the salary cap and have to stick with the senior tour instead to kick the can.

The only difference with the salary cap is that it involves middle school level math, whereas the rest involve early elementary school level math skills such as counting and basic addition and subtraction. Middle School math intimidates too much of the audience for the media to be willing to cover it in detail, once you start busting out x = (y-1)/5 to explain how a restructure prorates money, a lot of people think that its quantum physics or 'wizardry.' Many tune out or click away, but its seriously more like 7th grade and I try to explain and analyze it since the media won't. As a more neglected aspect of football competition, I take an interest in it. Sorry if you think anyone who likes 7th grade math must have Asperger's or something, but its really not all that.

As a former systems and business analyst with an accounting degree, I have have been fascinated by the NFL cap and individual contracts in general since the cap was first introduced back in 1994. That said, I believe most current NFL fans have a decent understanding of how contracts and the cap function. The difference is that most fans aren't obsessed with caps and contracts, nor should they be. We have no affect on the cap personally, nor does it have any material affect on us. Especially to a degree that demands creating a IHateMickey website. LOL!

TheOak · 07-08-2025, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Legally, the problem is that it is not one company with legitimate outside competitors, it is 32 separate companies that work together to reduce outside competition. That is like if Walmart, Target, Kohls, Home Depot, Lowes, Dollar General, Rite Aid, CVS, Walgreens, Dollar Tree, etc all got together and discussed the importance of none offering sick leave. They are supposed to compete, in theory, and in return for the degree to which they don't (like the salary cap) it is supposed to be negotiated with the players.

But alas, as a fan, guaranteed contracts are not my problem. The salary cap is my problem, because without it, the Super Bowl is LA vs NY most years, or other big markets, and we are the Drays or something.

It is a hybrid that isn't as clear cut as your example. Depending on the circumstance it can be 32 separate divisions of the same company. All teams fall under the NFL Corporate umbrella, so much so that the NFL decides how many teams there (limits competition), how much they are allowed to pay (salary cap), which cities get them, and who gets to own them. Not apples to apples with your comparison.

The Supreme Court ruled in 2010 that the NFL and its teams must be treated as 32 independent businesses, particularly for antitrust and licensing purposes, according to multiple legal news sources. While the teams collaborate to operate the league (this collaboration is what is being called collusion), they are ultimately separate, profit-maximizing entities.

If they had a meeting to blanket raise ticket prices that is collusion as the public is getting screwed. Guaranteed contracts have nothing to do with the public, that is an internal union issue between the employers and the employees.

It is convoluted to say the least, almost as if at some point, congress had a hand in forming the NFL and granting cities and teams (which it did).

SmashMouth · 07-08-2025, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Legally, the problem is that it is not one company with legitimate outside competitors, it is 32 separate companies that work together to reduce outside competition. That is like if Walmart, Target, Kohls, Home Depot, Lowes, Dollar General, Rite Aid, CVS, Walgreens, Dollar Tree, etc all got together and discussed the importance of none offering sick leave. They are supposed to compete, in theory, and in return for the degree to which they don't (like the salary cap) it is supposed to be negotiated with the players.

But alas, as a fan, guaranteed contracts are not my problem. The salary cap is my problem, because without it, the Super Bowl is LA vs NY most years, or other big markets, and we are the Drays or something.

Originally Posted by TheOak

It is a hybrid that isn't as clear cut as your example. Depending on the circumstance it can be 32 separate divisions of the same company. All teams fall under the NFL Corporate umbrella, so much so that the NFL decides how many teams there (limits competition), how much they are allowed to pay (salary cap), which cities get them, and who gets to own them. Not apples to apples with your comparison.

The Supreme Court ruled in 2010 that the NFL and its teams must be treated as 32 independent businesses, particularly for antitrust and licensing purposes, according to multiple legal news sources. While the teams collaborate to operate the league (this collaboration is what is being called collusion), they are ultimately separate, profit-maximizing entities.

If they had a meeting to blanket raise ticket prices that is collusion as the public is getting screwed. Guaranteed contracts have nothing to do with the public, that is an internal union issue between the employers and the employees.

It is convoluted to say the least, almost as if at some point, congress had a hand in forming the NFL and granting cities and teams (which it did).

Is it a better analogy if the NCAA is used instead, the NIL being what's resulted in a long legal battle from the players' suits vs the NCAA? While the NFL has a union, what's to stop a certain player from doing what transpired with the NCAA? It's clear DW set a precedent, one that owners don't want to become common place. Yet we see the 2nd rounders vying for guaranteed contracts, including our very own Tyler Shough. DW and 2nd rounders have created a trickle with guaranteed contracts. Is it inevitable like it is with the NBA now? What special player will have the balls to sue?

And btw, Chuckie Gruden still has a pending suit against the league and RG. Surely, there's collusion there too, neaux?

AsylumGuido · 07-08-2025, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Is it a better analogy if the NCAA is used instead, the NIL being what's resulted in a long legal battle from the players' suits vs the NCAA? While the NFL has a union, what's to stop a certain player from doing what transpired with the NCAA? It's clear DW set a precedent, one that owners don't want to become common place. Yet we see the 2nd rounders vying for guaranteed contracts, including our very own Tyler Shough. DW and 2nd rounders have created a trickle with guaranteed contracts. Is it inevitable like it is with the NBA now? What special player will have the balls to sue?

And btw, Chuckie Gruden still has a pending suit against the league and RG. Surely, there's collusion there too, neaux?

In what way is Gruden's situation collusion? He is suing because of leaked emails that showed examples of "racist, sexist, and homophobic language". That has nothing to do with collusion. It has everything to do with defamation of character, instead.

BakoSaint · 07-08-2025, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

In what way is Gruden's situation collusion? He is suing because of leaked emails that showed examples of "racist, sexist, and homophobic language". That has nothing to do with collusion. It has everything to do with defamation of character, instead.

Collusion could definitely be an element to the Gruden case. 32 purportedly independent businesses fund one central league office that is supposed to play a merely organizational role, more of a neutral arbiter. Instead that 'neutral arbiter' commissioner entered into feuds with various owners and coaches who he perceived as not towing the company line and being too independent, including the Raiders, Davis Family, and Jon Gruden. To further pursue that grudge, the league office apparently selectively leaked small excerpts from a sealed investigation to specifically target one NFL employee, Jon Gruden, for doing something numerous NFL employees including the commissioner himself likely did behind closed doors, likely as punishment for the many times Gruden, the Davis Family, and the Raiders defied the NFL and other owners. Imagine if Walmart, Target, Home Depot, Walgreen, etc formed an office to manage the mutual interests of the top 32 retailers, conducted an extensive investigation, then kept everything sealed except for excerpts of racist statements by the CEO of Dollar Tree, after numerous clashes with Dollar Tree over other top retailers disagreements with its low pricing. Yeah, that would probably be collusion.

TheOak · 07-08-2025, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Is it a better analogy if the NCAA is used instead, the NIL being what's resulted in a long legal battle from the players' suits vs the NCAA? While the NFL has a union, what's to stop a certain player from doing what transpired with the NCAA? It's clear DW set a precedent, one that owners don't want to become common place. Yet we see the 2nd rounders vying for guaranteed contracts, including our very own Tyler Shough. DW and 2nd rounders have created a trickle with guaranteed contracts. Is it inevitable like it is with the NBA now? What special player will have the balls to sue?

And btw, Chuckie Gruden still has a pending suit against the league and RG. Surely, there's collusion there too, neaux?

Sh1t Smash.... Without collusion there would be no New Orleans Saints so we should appreciate the fact that some days you are the hammer, some days you are the nail

BakoSaint · 07-08-2025, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

It is a hybrid that isn't as clear cut as your example. Depending on the circumstance it can be 32 separate divisions of the same company. All teams fall under the NFL Corporate umbrella, so much so that the NFL decides how many teams there (limits competition), how much they are allowed to pay (salary cap), which cities get them, and who gets to own them. Not apples to apples with your comparison.

The Supreme Court ruled in 2010 that the NFL and its teams must be treated as 32 independent businesses, particularly for antitrust and licensing purposes, according to multiple legal news sources. While the teams collaborate to operate the league (this collaboration is what is being called collusion), they are ultimately separate, profit-maximizing entities.

If they had a meeting to blanket raise ticket prices that is collusion as the public is getting screwed. Guaranteed contracts have nothing to do with the public, that is an internal union issue between the employers and the employees.

It is convoluted to say the least, almost as if at some point, congress had a hand in forming the NFL and granting cities and teams (which it did).

The way I understand it, anti-trust and collusion are not limited to the public or the consumer. For example, business ethics trainings I have taken have been very clear that it is a potential violation to discuss contractor bids with a competitor, such as agreeing that neither company will offer a bid below a certain amount, or neither company will accept a bid over a certain amount. Monopoly power does not just allow a company or colluding companies to exploit consumers, it allows them to demand lower bids where their contractors can barely break even, offer higher bids that other companies have to pay because they have no other options, and pay lower salaries to workers because there is no threat of a competitor poaching their staff. Many of the big complaints about companies like Amazon, Walmart, and Microsoft have centered around what they have done to other companies, not directly to consumers, and sure maybe many don't care, but it really sucks for small business owners if Amazon or Walmart suddenly demand they wholesale at a loss or lose 90% of their sales, or Microsoft copies they product and preinstalls the copy on 90% of new computers.

The NFL is convoluted as it can do things many companies can't. For example it is very illegal for competing companies to agree to 'territories' so that each can have its own local monopoly, but obviously NFL teams can. But home teams are a part of sports, so the government allows that exception.

When you say that guaranteed contracts are an issue between the employers and employees you may be right. But it depends whether by the employer you mean the NFL or independent teams. If it is between the NFL and the teams it is supposed to be a part of the union agreement, but the union agreement does not address guaranteed contracts currently. Since its not in the union contract, its supposed to be up to each individual team. But if groups of teams are pressuring each other separately from the union contract, to make secret side rules, that is potentially collusion, because its happening in secret not in open labor and employer negotiations.

07-07-2025, 02:37 PM	#1
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,425	Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed Originally Posted by TheOak Devils Advocate Merriam-Webster Collusion - secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose. Just because the public does not know, does not make it a secrete or illegal. Also, lets not forget that everyone but the agents are employees of the same company. Discussing the avoidance of fully guaranteed contracts as a general policy within the same company is a far stretch from collusion. The NFLPA wants to frame it as collusion because they want their players to get guaranteed contracts but no one else is concerned. Lord knows how poorly players have performed after that big guaranteed payout. No guarantee is better for competition. Legally, the problem is that it is not one company with legitimate outside competitors, it is 32 separate companies that work together to reduce outside competition. That is like if Walmart, Target, Kohls, Home Depot, Lowes, Dollar General, Rite Aid, CVS, Walgreens, Dollar Tree, etc all got together and discussed the importance of none offering sick leave. They are supposed to compete, in theory, and in return for the degree to which they don't (like the salary cap) it is supposed to be negotiated with the players. But alas, as a fan, guaranteed contracts are not my problem. The salary cap is my problem, because without it, the Super Bowl is LA vs NY most years, or other big markets, and we are the Drays or something. SmashMouth likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,425

07-07-2025, 03:49 PM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,766	Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed Originally Posted by BakoSaint Legally, the problem is that it is not one company with legitimate outside competitors, it is 32 separate companies that work together to reduce outside competition. That is like if Walmart, Target, Kohls, Home Depot, Lowes, Dollar General, Rite Aid, CVS, Walgreens, Dollar Tree, etc all got together and discussed the importance of none offering sick leave. They are supposed to compete, in theory, and in return for the degree to which they don't (like the salary cap) it is supposed to be negotiated with the players. But alas, as a fan, guaranteed contracts are not my problem. The salary cap is my problem, because without it, the Super Bowl is LA vs NY most years, or other big markets, and we are the Drays or something. The salary cap isn't your problem at all, Bako. Your problem is that you think it is your problem. It is what it is. To obsess over it as a fan is meaningless and to a degree unhealthy. To compulsively obsess over the cap and the person responsible is likely a disorder. It sounds like a version of OCD to me.

07-08-2025, 10:09 PM	#3
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,425	Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed Originally Posted by AsylumGuido The salary cap isn't your problem at all, Bako. Your problem is that you think it is your problem. It is what it is. To obsess over it as a fan is meaningless and to a degree unhealthy. To compulsively obsess over the cap and the person responsible is likely a disorder. It sounds like a version of OCD to me. The salary cap is a part of football. To argue that fans should ignore it is as ridiculous as arguing that fans should ignore the draft, the record, the score, or the down and distance of the game. They all play key roles in the teams success. Just as player nearing the sidelines may score if they don't cross out of bounds before they reach the goal line, a team may be able to assemble a dynasty level roster if they can add quality young talent without reaching the point where they are limited by the salary cap and have to stick with the senior tour instead to kick the can. The only difference with the salary cap is that it involves middle school level math, whereas the rest involve early elementary school level math skills such as counting and basic addition and subtraction. Middle School math intimidates too much of the audience for the media to be willing to cover it in detail, once you start busting out x = (y-1)/5 to explain how a restructure prorates money, a lot of people think that its quantum physics or 'wizardry.' Many tune out or click away, but its seriously more like 7th grade and I try to explain and analyze it since the media won't. As a more neglected aspect of football competition, I take an interest in it. Sorry if you think anyone who likes 7th grade math must have Asperger's or something, but its really not all that.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,425

07-09-2025, 08:37 AM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,766	Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed Originally Posted by BakoSaint The salary cap is a part of football. To argue that fans should ignore it is as ridiculous as arguing that fans should ignore the draft, the record, the score, or the down and distance of the game. They all play key roles in the teams success. Just as player nearing the sidelines may score if they don't cross out of bounds before they reach the goal line, a team may be able to assemble a dynasty level roster if they can add quality young talent without reaching the point where they are limited by the salary cap and have to stick with the senior tour instead to kick the can. The only difference with the salary cap is that it involves middle school level math, whereas the rest involve early elementary school level math skills such as counting and basic addition and subtraction. Middle School math intimidates too much of the audience for the media to be willing to cover it in detail, once you start busting out x = (y-1)/5 to explain how a restructure prorates money, a lot of people think that its quantum physics or 'wizardry.' Many tune out or click away, but its seriously more like 7th grade and I try to explain and analyze it since the media won't. As a more neglected aspect of football competition, I take an interest in it. Sorry if you think anyone who likes 7th grade math must have Asperger's or something, but its really not all that. As a former systems and business analyst with an accounting degree, I have have been fascinated by the NFL cap and individual contracts in general since the cap was first introduced back in 1994. That said, I believe most current NFL fans have a decent understanding of how contracts and the cap function. The difference is that most fans aren't obsessed with caps and contracts, nor should they be. We have no affect on the cap personally, nor does it have any material affect on us. Especially to a degree that demands creating a IHateMickey website. LOL!

07-08-2025, 08:17 AM	#5
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,055	Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed Originally Posted by BakoSaint Legally, the problem is that it is not one company with legitimate outside competitors, it is 32 separate companies that work together to reduce outside competition. That is like if Walmart, Target, Kohls, Home Depot, Lowes, Dollar General, Rite Aid, CVS, Walgreens, Dollar Tree, etc all got together and discussed the importance of none offering sick leave. They are supposed to compete, in theory, and in return for the degree to which they don't (like the salary cap) it is supposed to be negotiated with the players. But alas, as a fan, guaranteed contracts are not my problem. The salary cap is my problem, because without it, the Super Bowl is LA vs NY most years, or other big markets, and we are the Drays or something. It is a hybrid that isn't as clear cut as your example. Depending on the circumstance it can be 32 separate divisions of the same company. All teams fall under the NFL Corporate umbrella, so much so that the NFL decides how many teams there (limits competition), how much they are allowed to pay (salary cap), which cities get them, and who gets to own them. Not apples to apples with your comparison. The Supreme Court ruled in 2010 that the NFL and its teams must be treated as 32 independent businesses, particularly for antitrust and licensing purposes, according to multiple legal news sources. While the teams collaborate to operate the league (this collaboration is what is being called collusion), they are ultimately separate, profit-maximizing entities. If they had a meeting to blanket raise ticket prices that is collusion as the public is getting screwed. Guaranteed contracts have nothing to do with the public, that is an internal union issue between the employers and the employees. It is convoluted to say the least, almost as if at some point, congress had a hand in forming the NFL and granting cities and teams (which it did).
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

07-08-2025, 10:24 AM	#6
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 39,019 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed Originally Posted by BakoSaint Legally, the problem is that it is not one company with legitimate outside competitors, it is 32 separate companies that work together to reduce outside competition. That is like if Walmart, Target, Kohls, Home Depot, Lowes, Dollar General, Rite Aid, CVS, Walgreens, Dollar Tree, etc all got together and discussed the importance of none offering sick leave. They are supposed to compete, in theory, and in return for the degree to which they don't (like the salary cap) it is supposed to be negotiated with the players. But alas, as a fan, guaranteed contracts are not my problem. The salary cap is my problem, because without it, the Super Bowl is LA vs NY most years, or other big markets, and we are the Drays or something. Originally Posted by TheOak It is a hybrid that isn't as clear cut as your example. Depending on the circumstance it can be 32 separate divisions of the same company. All teams fall under the NFL Corporate umbrella, so much so that the NFL decides how many teams there (limits competition), how much they are allowed to pay (salary cap), which cities get them, and who gets to own them. Not apples to apples with your comparison. The Supreme Court ruled in 2010 that the NFL and its teams must be treated as 32 independent businesses, particularly for antitrust and licensing purposes, according to multiple legal news sources. While the teams collaborate to operate the league (this collaboration is what is being called collusion), they are ultimately separate, profit-maximizing entities. If they had a meeting to blanket raise ticket prices that is collusion as the public is getting screwed. Guaranteed contracts have nothing to do with the public, that is an internal union issue between the employers and the employees. It is convoluted to say the least, almost as if at some point, congress had a hand in forming the NFL and granting cities and teams (which it did). Is it a better analogy if the NCAA is used instead, the NIL being what's resulted in a long legal battle from the players' suits vs the NCAA? While the NFL has a union, what's to stop a certain player from doing what transpired with the NCAA? It's clear DW set a precedent, one that owners don't want to become common place. Yet we see the 2nd rounders vying for guaranteed contracts, including our very own Tyler Shough. DW and 2nd rounders have created a trickle with guaranteed contracts. Is it inevitable like it is with the NBA now? What special player will have the balls to sue? And btw, Chuckie Gruden still has a pending suit against the league and RG. Surely, there's collusion there too, neaux?

07-08-2025, 12:15 PM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,766	Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed Originally Posted by SmashMouth Is it a better analogy if the NCAA is used instead, the NIL being what's resulted in a long legal battle from the players' suits vs the NCAA? While the NFL has a union, what's to stop a certain player from doing what transpired with the NCAA? It's clear DW set a precedent, one that owners don't want to become common place. Yet we see the 2nd rounders vying for guaranteed contracts, including our very own Tyler Shough. DW and 2nd rounders have created a trickle with guaranteed contracts. Is it inevitable like it is with the NBA now? What special player will have the balls to sue? And btw, Chuckie Gruden still has a pending suit against the league and RG. Surely, there's collusion there too, neaux? In what way is Gruden's situation collusion? He is suing because of leaked emails that showed examples of "racist, sexist, and homophobic language". That has nothing to do with collusion. It has everything to do with defamation of character, instead.

07-08-2025, 10:20 PM	#8
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,425	Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed Originally Posted by AsylumGuido In what way is Gruden's situation collusion? He is suing because of leaked emails that showed examples of "racist, sexist, and homophobic language". That has nothing to do with collusion. It has everything to do with defamation of character, instead. Collusion could definitely be an element to the Gruden case. 32 purportedly independent businesses fund one central league office that is supposed to play a merely organizational role, more of a neutral arbiter. Instead that 'neutral arbiter' commissioner entered into feuds with various owners and coaches who he perceived as not towing the company line and being too independent, including the Raiders, Davis Family, and Jon Gruden. To further pursue that grudge, the league office apparently selectively leaked small excerpts from a sealed investigation to specifically target one NFL employee, Jon Gruden, for doing something numerous NFL employees including the commissioner himself likely did behind closed doors, likely as punishment for the many times Gruden, the Davis Family, and the Raiders defied the NFL and other owners. Imagine if Walmart, Target, Home Depot, Walgreen, etc formed an office to manage the mutual interests of the top 32 retailers, conducted an extensive investigation, then kept everything sealed except for excerpts of racist statements by the CEO of Dollar Tree, after numerous clashes with Dollar Tree over other top retailers disagreements with its low pricing. Yeah, that would probably be collusion. SmashMouth likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,425

07-08-2025, 02:51 PM	#9
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,055	Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed Originally Posted by SmashMouth Is it a better analogy if the NCAA is used instead, the NIL being what's resulted in a long legal battle from the players' suits vs the NCAA? While the NFL has a union, what's to stop a certain player from doing what transpired with the NCAA? It's clear DW set a precedent, one that owners don't want to become common place. Yet we see the 2nd rounders vying for guaranteed contracts, including our very own Tyler Shough. DW and 2nd rounders have created a trickle with guaranteed contracts. Is it inevitable like it is with the NBA now? What special player will have the balls to sue? And btw, Chuckie Gruden still has a pending suit against the league and RG. Surely, there's collusion there too, neaux? Sh1t Smash.... Without collusion there would be no New Orleans Saints so we should appreciate the fact that some days you are the hammer, some days you are the nail SmashMouth likes this.

07-08-2025, 10:37 PM	#10
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,425	Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed Originally Posted by TheOak It is a hybrid that isn't as clear cut as your example. Depending on the circumstance it can be 32 separate divisions of the same company. All teams fall under the NFL Corporate umbrella, so much so that the NFL decides how many teams there (limits competition), how much they are allowed to pay (salary cap), which cities get them, and who gets to own them. Not apples to apples with your comparison. The Supreme Court ruled in 2010 that the NFL and its teams must be treated as 32 independent businesses, particularly for antitrust and licensing purposes, according to multiple legal news sources. While the teams collaborate to operate the league (this collaboration is what is being called collusion), they are ultimately separate, profit-maximizing entities. If they had a meeting to blanket raise ticket prices that is collusion as the public is getting screwed. Guaranteed contracts have nothing to do with the public, that is an internal union issue between the employers and the employees. It is convoluted to say the least, almost as if at some point, congress had a hand in forming the NFL and granting cities and teams (which it did). The way I understand it, anti-trust and collusion are not limited to the public or the consumer. For example, business ethics trainings I have taken have been very clear that it is a potential violation to discuss contractor bids with a competitor, such as agreeing that neither company will offer a bid below a certain amount, or neither company will accept a bid over a certain amount. Monopoly power does not just allow a company or colluding companies to exploit consumers, it allows them to demand lower bids where their contractors can barely break even, offer higher bids that other companies have to pay because they have no other options, and pay lower salaries to workers because there is no threat of a competitor poaching their staff. Many of the big complaints about companies like Amazon, Walmart, and Microsoft have centered around what they have done to other companies, not directly to consumers, and sure maybe many don't care, but it really sucks for small business owners if Amazon or Walmart suddenly demand they wholesale at a loss or lose 90% of their sales, or Microsoft copies they product and preinstalls the copy on 90% of new computers. The NFL is convoluted as it can do things many companies can't. For example it is very illegal for competing companies to agree to 'territories' so that each can have its own local monopoly, but obviously NFL teams can. But home teams are a part of sports, so the government allows that exception. When you say that guaranteed contracts are an issue between the employers and employees you may be right. But it depends whether by the employer you mean the NFL or independent teams. If it is between the NFL and the teams it is supposed to be a part of the union agreement, but the union agreement does not address guaranteed contracts currently. Since its not in the union contract, its supposed to be up to each individual team. But if groups of teams are pressuring each other separately from the union contract, to make secret side rules, that is potentially collusion, because its happening in secret not in open labor and employer negotiations.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,425