A New "Old" Head Coach

saintswhodi · 12-14-2005, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by mjf150

Actually, at the time it was not a "no-brainer". It's hard to believe knowing what we know now, but just as many teams had Ryan Leaf listed at the top, as did Manning. And because we are the Saints and had that idiot of a GM at that time, I'm not so sure that we wouldn't have been one of those teams to take Leaf instead.

I disagree there. I think it was pretty much a no brainer. Leaf was not rated as high as Manning, and was widely considered the number two QB in that draft, still pretty damn lofty for what he turned out to be though. I think where the iffy part came in was when they played the "well, if this team gets the first pick, they should take so and so...." type arguments. But Manning was rated as the number one player, so based on that, I still feel it was a no brainer. I had no idea Leaf would be such a bust, as I am sure not many others did, but I do know Manning was rated higher. If you subscribe to the theory you take the highest rated player at your position of need, that to me makes it a no brainer. Plus, Peyton being from New Orleans, And his father having played for us and being a legend, I don't care who the GM was at the time, they would have taken Manning. IMO let me say. Don't wanna post inaccuracies without facts on an opinion based forum.

mjf150 · 12-14-2005, 11:35 AM

You have grossly overlooked one other very important point: Peyton, unlike his younger brother Eli, swore that he would not play for any team that his father had played for.

saintswhodi · 12-14-2005, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by mjf150

You have grossly overlooked one other very important point: Peyton, unlike his younger brother Eli, swore that he would not play for any team that his father had played for.

Really? When did he say that? I haven't heard him say that, so I don't think I overlooked it, I think I am unaware of it. But, if he did say that, and I have no reason to doubt you, it doesn't make it any less of a no brainer to pick him. We just woulda had to trade him for a buttload of picks we probably would have wasted. But since that scenario never came about, if he did say that, we will never know if he would have stayed true to that or not. It's interesting to hea he would say something like that though.

mjf150 · 12-14-2005, 12:10 PM

He has said it a couple of times. The first being when he announce his preference to sign with Tennessee, rather that Ole Miss. His reasoning being the legacy that his father had already established.
I don't know that it is that strange considering Eli's refusal to play for the Chargers, and Archie's insistance that the Charger not draft him.

saintswhodi · 12-14-2005, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by mjf150

He has said it a couple of times. The first being when he announce his preference to sign with Tennessee, rather that Ole Miss. His reasoning being the legacy that his father had already established.
I don't know that it is that strange considering Eli's refusal to play for the Chargers, and Archie's insistance that the Charger not draft him.

I don't see how Peyton saying he would not play for Ole Miss equates to him saying he would not play for the Saints, or even equates to Eli not going to the Chargers since his father never played there. Where are you drawing your parrallels there?

mjf150 · 12-14-2005, 01:10 PM

Because he said that his reasoning behind not going to Ole Miss is because he could not bring himself to play for a "team" that his father played for. The Saints are indeed a "team" that his father played for. Therefore, it isn't difficult to realize that he did not want to play for them, either.

saintswhodi · 12-14-2005, 02:51 PM

Oh, so he never said that, you are just inferring by what he said as a high school senior before deciding on Tenn, and 4 years before he entered the NFL. Gotcha. Still don't see what that has to do with Eli and the Chargers, since Eli never made these statements, played at Ole Miss, and his father never played for the Chargers.

mjf150 · 12-14-2005, 03:28 PM

The reasoning behind bringing Eli into this is to show that if Peyton did not want to play for a "team" that his father, Archie, had played for, as he had stated, then he would have played "hardball", similar to what Eli did when he was drafted by a team that he did not want to play for.

BTW, I'm not the one critizing you for making assumptions. You are welcome to draw your own conclusions. And no, Peyton did not list every single team his father played for, but he did say that he did not want to play for a team that his father had previously played for, which would include the Saints.

saintswhodi · 12-14-2005, 03:55 PM

Here's my problem, you are basing your reasoning on a statement you said Peyton made as a high school senior. I don't know about you, but I changed a lot from the time I was a high school senior til the time around where I would have finished college. It's not a bad inference, but I think he may have changed his mind by the time he was set to be drafted.

On Eli, like I said, he has a very rich brother. That PLUS his dad enabled him to make that decision. Not his dad alone. But it's all good. Different opinions.

APSaintsfan · 12-14-2005, 07:46 PM

OMG I remember when Peyton said it on some TV Interview that was why he did not want to go to Ole Miss, and to play for the Saints later. I remember that vividly. He did not want to come here.

12-14-2005, 11:24 AM	#11
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by mjf150 Actually, at the time it was not a "no-brainer". It's hard to believe knowing what we know now, but just as many teams had Ryan Leaf listed at the top, as did Manning. And because we are the Saints and had that idiot of a GM at that time, I'm not so sure that we wouldn't have been one of those teams to take Leaf instead. I disagree there. I think it was pretty much a no brainer. Leaf was not rated as high as Manning, and was widely considered the number two QB in that draft, still pretty damn lofty for what he turned out to be though. I think where the iffy part came in was when they played the "well, if this team gets the first pick, they should take so and so...." type arguments. But Manning was rated as the number one player, so based on that, I still feel it was a no brainer. I had no idea Leaf would be such a bust, as I am sure not many others did, but I do know Manning was rated higher. If you subscribe to the theory you take the highest rated player at your position of need, that to me makes it a no brainer. Plus, Peyton being from New Orleans, And his father having played for us and being a legend, I don't care who the GM was at the time, they would have taken Manning. IMO let me say. Don't wanna post inaccuracies without facts on an opinion based forum.

12-14-2005, 11:35 AM	#12
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752	You have grossly overlooked one other very important point: Peyton, unlike his younger brother Eli, swore that he would not play for any team that his father had played for.
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752

12-14-2005, 12:00 PM	#13
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by mjf150 You have grossly overlooked one other very important point: Peyton, unlike his younger brother Eli, swore that he would not play for any team that his father had played for. Really? When did he say that? I haven't heard him say that, so I don't think I overlooked it, I think I am unaware of it. But, if he did say that, and I have no reason to doubt you, it doesn't make it any less of a no brainer to pick him. We just woulda had to trade him for a buttload of picks we probably would have wasted. But since that scenario never came about, if he did say that, we will never know if he would have stayed true to that or not. It's interesting to hea he would say something like that though.

12-14-2005, 12:10 PM	#14
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752	He has said it a couple of times. The first being when he announce his preference to sign with Tennessee, rather that Ole Miss. His reasoning being the legacy that his father had already established. I don't know that it is that strange considering Eli's refusal to play for the Chargers, and Archie's insistance that the Charger not draft him.
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752

12-14-2005, 12:21 PM	#15
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by mjf150 He has said it a couple of times. The first being when he announce his preference to sign with Tennessee, rather that Ole Miss. His reasoning being the legacy that his father had already established. I don't know that it is that strange considering Eli's refusal to play for the Chargers, and Archie's insistance that the Charger not draft him. I don't see how Peyton saying he would not play for Ole Miss equates to him saying he would not play for the Saints, or even equates to Eli not going to the Chargers since his father never played there. Where are you drawing your parrallels there?

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12-14-2005, 01:10 PM	#16
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752	Because he said that his reasoning behind not going to Ole Miss is because he could not bring himself to play for a "team" that his father played for. The Saints are indeed a "team" that his father played for. Therefore, it isn't difficult to realize that he did not want to play for them, either.
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752

12-14-2005, 02:51 PM	#17
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Oh, so he never said that, you are just inferring by what he said as a high school senior before deciding on Tenn, and 4 years before he entered the NFL. Gotcha. Still don't see what that has to do with Eli and the Chargers, since Eli never made these statements, played at Ole Miss, and his father never played for the Chargers.

12-14-2005, 03:28 PM	#18
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752	The reasoning behind bringing Eli into this is to show that if Peyton did not want to play for a "team" that his father, Archie, had played for, as he had stated, then he would have played "hardball", similar to what Eli did when he was drafted by a team that he did not want to play for. BTW, I'm not the one critizing you for making assumptions. You are welcome to draw your own conclusions. And no, Peyton did not list every single team his father played for, but he did say that he did not want to play for a team that his father had previously played for, which would include the Saints.
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752

12-14-2005, 03:55 PM	#19
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Here's my problem, you are basing your reasoning on a statement you said Peyton made as a high school senior. I don't know about you, but I changed a lot from the time I was a high school senior til the time around where I would have finished college. It's not a bad inference, but I think he may have changed his mind by the time he was set to be drafted. On Eli, like I said, he has a very rich brother. That PLUS his dad enabled him to make that decision. Not his dad alone. But it's all good. Different opinions.

12-14-2005, 07:46 PM	#20
APSaintsfan 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Concord, NC Posts: 119	OMG I remember when Peyton said it on some TV Interview that was why he did not want to go to Ole Miss, and to play for the Saints later. I remember that vividly. He did not want to come here.