I Hate It!

saintswhodi · 12-29-2005, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by BrooksMustGo

I feel really out of place on the board right now.

I don't want Leinert. I'd FAR rather work a trade with San Diego for Rivers. He should be more ready to play with less ego.

You can't always be in the "IT" crowd BMG. 8)

As far as Rivers goes, there is no way in hell I give up the top pick, or any of the top picks in the draft for him, when I could just take Leinart. Right now though, finacially, Rivers is a better option cause his bonus has been paid. That is the only advantage I can see. Unless they give us Rivers, AND their second pick or something, there is no way I do it.

saintswhodi · 12-29-2005, 12:45 PM

Eli had what none of these draft picks have, leverage. Plain and simple. None of them have any leverage to justify sitting out a whole year and losing millions of dollars. Without leverage, it would just be empty threats. Noone should be worried about any of these picks not signing with us.

jrmllb · 12-29-2005, 01:52 PM

Eli did have more leverage, I want a top qb in camp I just don't see Benson coming off the dime to do it, He needs to sell the team for them to have a future, A loser in NO is going to be a loser in LA the league knows this and they are not going to want to put a loser in that huge market

BrooksMustGo · 12-29-2005, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by saintswhodi

Originally Posted by BrooksMustGo

I feel really out of place on the board right now.

I don't want Leinert. I'd FAR rather work a trade with San Diego for Rivers. He should be more ready to play with less ego.

You can't always be in the "IT" crowd BMG. 8)

As far as Rivers goes, there is no way in hell I give up the top pick, or any of the top picks in the draft for him, when I could just take Leinart. Right now though, finacially, Rivers is a better option cause his bonus has been paid. That is the only advantage I can see. Unless they give us Rivers, AND their second pick or something, there is no way I do it.

Actually, I'd rather do a trade with our #1 or #2 for San Diego's #19 or #20. If we could manage to deal Howard too, then I'd feel pretty good about a Rivers deal. I don't want to just give our 1st rounder away. This draft is deep enough at O-line that we should be able to swap picks for Rivers and still get a quality LT where the Chargers would pick.

17 or 18 spaces is a LOT of draft value. Since the Chargers probably don't want a QB or RB, they could still trade out of the pick and make out like bandits. I'm not sure that the Chargers would be so dogmatic about a 1st rounder only if they could be in the driver's seat over the Reggie Bush sweepstakes. If we end up with the 1st overall pick, it's like trading Reggie Bush for Rivers and that seems like a much more even trade to me.

And Rivers is ready to play now.

.02

saintswhodi · 12-29-2005, 03:43 PM

Still gotta disagree. Reggie bush will grade out as prob one of the highest draft picks ever. Rivers isn't. If they offered us Rivers, their first, and their 2nd for the pick, i'd consider it, and draft defense later in the round, not a LT. I'd do that in FA. But if they aren't gonna sell the farm for the pick, screw that.

BrooksMustGo · 12-29-2005, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by saintswhodi

Still gotta disagree. Reggie bush will grade out as prob one of the highest draft picks ever. Rivers isn't. If they offered us Rivers, their first, and their 2nd for the pick, i'd consider it, and draft defense later in the round, not a LT. I'd do that in FA. But if they aren't gonna sell the farm for the pick, screw that.

I think we agree basically on Bush's value. We may be stuck on Leinert?

Leinert is no Carson Palmer and probably no Chad Pennington. I have the sneaking suspiciaion he's more of a Trent Dilfer and I just can't see drafting Trent Dilfer at 2nd overall.

I'm not opposed to drafting defense with a later 1st round pick, but I wouldn't kid myself about getting a franchise LT in free agency. We'd be looking at guys much more similar to Wayne Gandy in FA. Teams don't let guys like Orlando Pace or Walter Jones leave in free agency. Jones has been playing as a franchise player for years because he's too good to let walk.

I'm not sure what defensive position I would try to fill if we were able to pick at #17-19. I suppose I'd be tempted by Nagata if he were still there. I can't see Hawk still being on the board at that point. I'd probably take another LB in round 2 regardless though.

Even though, with as many quality offensive linemen in this draft, it would be silly of us not to come away with a LT. If we could draft an LT, move stinch to guard and re-sign Bentley, I like that unit.

The only other thought I have is--if Bush is so great, and we get 1st overall, then we shouldn't pass on him.

saintswhodi · 12-29-2005, 04:31 PM

I guess we do disagree on Leinart, cause he is being graded out higher than Eli and Palmer. I am not getting beyond passing on him. We would be screwing ourselves. So the only way I take Rivers still, is if they sell the farm to us. If not, I would take Leinart. Period. His value is behind Bush's, but not by much.

Lydon_26 · 12-29-2005, 05:37 PM

I guess we do disagree on Leinart, cause he is being graded out higher than Eli and Palmer.

By who? I think Lienart is going to be good, but give me someone that's ready to play now, instead of searching for someone to fill the role for a couple of years while Lienart adjusts to the speed of the NFL.

saintswhodi · 12-29-2005, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Lydon_26

I guess we do disagree on Leinart, cause he is being graded out higher than Eli and Palmer.

By who? I think Lienart is going to be good, but give me someone that's ready to play now, instead of searching for someone to fill the role for a couple of years while Lienart adjusts to the speed of the NFL.

None other than draft guru Mel Kiper. And he was right on about Eli and Palmer, so..................

Lydon_26 · 12-29-2005, 06:19 PM

Kiper was wrong about Williams, unless they decide to move him to tight end. Lienart's arm isn't near as strong as Palmer's.

12-29-2005, 12:43 PM	#21
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by BrooksMustGo I feel really out of place on the board right now. I don't want Leinert. I'd FAR rather work a trade with San Diego for Rivers. He should be more ready to play with less ego. You can't always be in the "IT" crowd BMG. 8) As far as Rivers goes, there is no way in hell I give up the top pick, or any of the top picks in the draft for him, when I could just take Leinart. Right now though, finacially, Rivers is a better option cause his bonus has been paid. That is the only advantage I can see. Unless they give us Rivers, AND their second pick or something, there is no way I do it.

12-29-2005, 02:09 PM	#24
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Originally Posted by saintswhodi Originally Posted by BrooksMustGo I feel really out of place on the board right now. I don't want Leinert. I'd FAR rather work a trade with San Diego for Rivers. He should be more ready to play with less ego. You can't always be in the "IT" crowd BMG. 8) As far as Rivers goes, there is no way in hell I give up the top pick, or any of the top picks in the draft for him, when I could just take Leinart. Right now though, finacially, Rivers is a better option cause his bonus has been paid. That is the only advantage I can see. Unless they give us Rivers, AND their second pick or something, there is no way I do it. Actually, I'd rather do a trade with our #1 or #2 for San Diego's #19 or #20. If we could manage to deal Howard too, then I'd feel pretty good about a Rivers deal. I don't want to just give our 1st rounder away. This draft is deep enough at O-line that we should be able to swap picks for Rivers and still get a quality LT where the Chargers would pick. 17 or 18 spaces is a LOT of draft value. Since the Chargers probably don't want a QB or RB, they could still trade out of the pick and make out like bandits. I'm not sure that the Chargers would be so dogmatic about a 1st rounder only if they could be in the driver's seat over the Reggie Bush sweepstakes. If we end up with the 1st overall pick, it's like trading Reggie Bush for Rivers and that seems like a much more even trade to me. And Rivers is ready to play now. .02

12-29-2005, 04:15 PM	#26
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Originally Posted by saintswhodi Still gotta disagree. Reggie bush will grade out as prob one of the highest draft picks ever. Rivers isn't. If they offered us Rivers, their first, and their 2nd for the pick, i'd consider it, and draft defense later in the round, not a LT. I'd do that in FA. But if they aren't gonna sell the farm for the pick, screw that. I think we agree basically on Bush's value. We may be stuck on Leinert? Leinert is no Carson Palmer and probably no Chad Pennington. I have the sneaking suspiciaion he's more of a Trent Dilfer and I just can't see drafting Trent Dilfer at 2nd overall. I'm not opposed to drafting defense with a later 1st round pick, but I wouldn't kid myself about getting a franchise LT in free agency. We'd be looking at guys much more similar to Wayne Gandy in FA. Teams don't let guys like Orlando Pace or Walter Jones leave in free agency. Jones has been playing as a franchise player for years because he's too good to let walk. I'm not sure what defensive position I would try to fill if we were able to pick at #17-19. I suppose I'd be tempted by Nagata if he were still there. I can't see Hawk still being on the board at that point. I'd probably take another LB in round 2 regardless though. Even though, with as many quality offensive linemen in this draft, it would be silly of us not to come away with a LT. If we could draft an LT, move stinch to guard and re-sign Bentley, I like that unit. The only other thought I have is--if Bush is so great, and we get 1st overall, then we shouldn't pass on him.
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12-29-2005, 05:37 PM	#28
Lydon_26 Rookie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 3	I guess we do disagree on Leinart, cause he is being graded out higher than Eli and Palmer. By who? I think Lienart is going to be good, but give me someone that's ready to play now, instead of searching for someone to fill the role for a couple of years while Lienart adjusts to the speed of the NFL.
Lydon_26 Rookie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 3

12-29-2005, 05:38 PM	#29
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by Lydon_26 I guess we do disagree on Leinart, cause he is being graded out higher than Eli and Palmer. By who? I think Lienart is going to be good, but give me someone that's ready to play now, instead of searching for someone to fill the role for a couple of years while Lienart adjusts to the speed of the NFL. None other than draft guru Mel Kiper. And he was right on about Eli and Palmer, so..................

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12-29-2005, 12:45 PM	#22
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Eli had what none of these draft picks have, leverage. Plain and simple. None of them have any leverage to justify sitting out a whole year and losing millions of dollars. Without leverage, it would just be empty threats. Noone should be worried about any of these picks not signing with us.

12-29-2005, 01:52 PM	#23
jrmllb 500th Post Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alexandria, Louisiana Posts: 665	Eli did have more leverage, I want a top qb in camp I just don't see Benson coming off the dime to do it, He needs to sell the team for them to have a future, A loser in NO is going to be a loser in LA the league knows this and they are not going to want to put a loser in that huge market

12-29-2005, 03:43 PM	#25
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Still gotta disagree. Reggie bush will grade out as prob one of the highest draft picks ever. Rivers isn't. If they offered us Rivers, their first, and their 2nd for the pick, i'd consider it, and draft defense later in the round, not a LT. I'd do that in FA. But if they aren't gonna sell the farm for the pick, screw that.

12-29-2005, 04:31 PM	#27
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	I guess we do disagree on Leinart, cause he is being graded out higher than Eli and Palmer. I am not getting beyond passing on him. We would be screwing ourselves. So the only way I take Rivers still, is if they sell the farm to us. If not, I would take Leinart. Period. His value is behind Bush's, but not by much.

12-29-2005, 06:19 PM	#30
Lydon_26 Rookie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 3	Kiper was wrong about Williams, unless they decide to move him to tight end. Lienart's arm isn't near as strong as Palmer's.
Lydon_26 Rookie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 3