Some bad news.....

Tobias-Reiper · 01-04-2006, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by yasoon

And, truthfully, I'm not certain Leinart is right for us. He is certainly a hollywood darling and I like the exposure. But, this team could possibly benefit from a vet QB this year and then see where AMAC is before getting another guy that we know is a year or two from winning. If AMAC and Leinart both "arrived" at the same time, that would kinda suck for a team with other, equally pressing needs. (LB, OL)

I do like Matt...despite the "playa hating" thing that hides in the back of most people's minds. Seems like a decent dude...as do Bush and Young. The franchise does need a new face. I mean, right now it's Horn.....and that is no different than the last few years. They tried with AB, but, well, ya know. Will Smith? Solid as hell, but young.

I'm with you, I don't "feel" it with Leinart... the whole USC team has gotten so hyped up in the last 3 years... they are media darlings indeed... I thought of Gino Torretta when I saw Leinart.. now I see a taller Danny Wuerfell... weak arm in a great system with great athletes around him and very good coaching...

.. I'll tell you, a guy that's growing on me is Vince Young... I see Vick's mobility but with passing skills... he may not have the ability to change directions like Vick has, but the kid can run it with the best of them, with the added bonus that he looks like he can throw it...

yasoon · 01-04-2006, 04:32 PM

Torretta? That's a good call TR.

I just think it's very hard to truly evaluate Leinart when his O is so good. It's almost like taking a free agent off a Belichik defense, but we don't know anything about that

Vince Young sure "looks" like AB in uniform, but he is much more poised in interviews and stuff. I'll bet their height/weight are very similar, but Vince's strides seem a bit quicker.

And with regard to Danny boy....did ya see the special during the Sugar bowl. He deserves alot of credit for staying involved down there even though his career was not good. Lots of good work he's doing in NO. Hats off.

Tobias-Reiper · 01-04-2006, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by yasoon

Torretta? That's a good call TR.

I just think it's very hard to truly evaluate Leinart when his O is so good. It's almost like taking a free agent off a Belichik defense, but we don't know anything about that

Vince Young sure "looks" like AB in uniform, but he is much more poised in interviews and stuff. I'll bet their height/weight are very similar, but Vince's strides seem a bit quicker.

And with regard to Danny boy....did ya see the special during the Sugar bowl. He deserves alot of credit for staying involved down there even though his career was not good. Lots of good work he's doing in NO. Hats off.

Oh, I love Danny W. He's one of the true good guys...

Vince is waay faster than Brooks, and seems not only to have a brain, but be coachable as well... I'm sure he's going to post 4.4's - 4.3's at the combine, if he decides to come out... I guess that would be determined after the Bowl... if the Longhorns win (and I will be cheering for them to win ) is going to be hard for Vince not to come out...

... there are some very good players coming out this year.. I love AJ Hawk's speed and range at LB; there are a few good DT's... but I think Vince Young will put fannies in the seats, and as long as he keeps on saying what he's saying, i.e., the right things to say to the media, he'll be supported, if not loved, in N.O....

... just imagine the Young vs Vick forum flamewars

saintswhodi · 01-04-2006, 05:12 PM

First, I don't think Young goes near a 4.3. 4.4 maybe. But 4.3? Uh uh. I am willing to bet his combine speed will be a surprise as it won't appear as fast as his game speed.

Next, he still has work to do mechanics wise. He made a huge leap from last year to this year, but he needs another season of polish. Unless we have a veteran QB who can start next year while he works, I don't see this is a good choice.

Also, the Leinart/Toretta comparisons are quite unfair. I don't recall Toretta losing his entire receiving corps and still being the best QB in college football. I also don't recall Toretta being called the best 3 straight years, and projected as a consensus top pick for two years. As a matter of fact:

He was drafted in the 7th round in the 1993 NFL draft by the Minnesota Vikings.

So I don't know how he reminds anyone of a guy picked int he 7th round. Simply cause he won the Heisman? So did Jason White, and he is no longer in football even. Unfair comparison all around.

yasoon · 01-04-2006, 06:11 PM

So I don't know how he reminds anyone of a guy picked int he 7th round. Simply cause he won the Heisman? So did Jason White, and he is no longer in football even. Unfair comparison all around.

I was talking as a pocket passer who posted great numbers and won a Heisman. I don't particularly remember the draft when Gino came out, but he just appeared to be a "system" guy.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Matt...I really have enjoyed watching him play. The 4th down throw vs Notre Dame was as good of a throw as I've ever seen.

I just have this feeling that I fear he will end up like Torretta (obviously with more money). I see your point, though. Maybe an overstatement with the Torretta comparison, I just wonder if Leinart's arm will fizzle in the league.

papz · 01-04-2006, 06:15 PM

In the back of my mind that I try to block out, I have a small feeling he's going to turn out like Cade McNown. Ekk! But I'm all for taking Leinart... he has a lot to bring to the table and he's not McNown, Gino, etc. He's Matt Leinart and I hope we do draft him.

Tobias-Reiper · 01-04-2006, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by saintswhodi

First, I don't think Young goes near a 4.3. 4.4 maybe. But 4.3? Uh uh. I am willing to bet his combine speed will be a surprise as it won't appear as fast as his game speed.

Next, he still has work to do mechanics wise. He made a huge leap from last year to this year, but he needs another season of polish. Unless we have a veteran QB who can start next year while he works, I don't see this is a good choice.

Also, the Leinart/Toretta comparisons are quite unfair. I don't recall Toretta losing his entire receiving corps and still being the best QB in college football. I also don't recall Toretta being called the best 3 straight years, and projected as a consensus top pick for two years. As a matter of fact:

He was drafted in the 7th round in the 1993 NFL draft by the Minnesota Vikings.

So I don't know how he reminds anyone of a guy picked int he 7th round. Simply cause he won the Heisman? So did Jason White, and he is no longer in football even. Unfair comparison all around.

There wasn't the love affair with the 'canes back then (actually, I don't think the media likes the U very much) as the love affair with the Trojans these past couple of years... he may have "lost" his 2 WRs of 2003, yet in 2004 he seemed to throw to wiiiide open WRs who were much faster than the secondaries covering them, while not a single defensive player lay a hand on him. And this year he had Reggie Bush...

What reminds me of Torretta is the play on the field, not the hype... Torretta, like Leinart, stood in the pocket, untouched, with all the time in the world, just waiting for the stud receivers to get a few yards of separation, then throwing floaters...

saintswhodi · 01-04-2006, 09:55 PM

TR, I still STRONGLY disagree with you comparing Leinart to Toretta, cause he was under heavy duress in the Fresno State game AND the Notre Dame game, and played like a star, BUT I will agree with you that if Vince Young comes out, i'd be looking strongly at taking him. Wow. I thought he was gonna take another year, but damn if he don't look ready now.

jrmllb · 01-05-2006, 09:21 AM

Vince Young is the real deal...I can't remember who it was, but someone on this site or several people said he was a "raw quarterback"...That is a load of crap from someone who did not watch any film and just digested some dumb critics column and spit it back at us...

After watching my first full game of that guy last night I have to totally disagree, VY is the total package...I was not aware of this but he lead the nation in passing effeciency, rushed for over 1000 yards if you count the rose bowl and passed for a butt load of yards with sophomore and freshman WR's...If he comes out he will be a top 5 pick, I say top 5 because I don't think Houston wants him cause they have Carr and need a player like Bush if he comes out...

01-04-2006, 04:19 PM	#11
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Originally Posted by yasoon And, truthfully, I'm not certain Leinart is right for us. He is certainly a hollywood darling and I like the exposure. But, this team could possibly benefit from a vet QB this year and then see where AMAC is before getting another guy that we know is a year or two from winning. If AMAC and Leinart both "arrived" at the same time, that would kinda suck for a team with other, equally pressing needs. (LB, OL) I do like Matt...despite the "playa hating" thing that hides in the back of most people's minds. Seems like a decent dude...as do Bush and Young. The franchise does need a new face. I mean, right now it's Horn.....and that is no different than the last few years. They tried with AB, but, well, ya know. Will Smith? Solid as hell, but young. I'm with you, I don't "feel" it with Leinart... the whole USC team has gotten so hyped up in the last 3 years... they are media darlings indeed... I thought of Gino Torretta when I saw Leinart.. now I see a taller Danny Wuerfell... weak arm in a great system with great athletes around him and very good coaching... .. I'll tell you, a guy that's growing on me is Vince Young... I see Vick's mobility but with passing skills... he may not have the ability to change directions like Vick has, but the kid can run it with the best of them, with the added bonus that he looks like he can throw it...
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

01-04-2006, 04:32 PM	#12
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	Torretta? That's a good call TR. I just think it's very hard to truly evaluate Leinart when his O is so good. It's almost like taking a free agent off a Belichik defense, but we don't know anything about that Vince Young sure "looks" like AB in uniform, but he is much more poised in interviews and stuff. I'll bet their height/weight are very similar, but Vince's strides seem a bit quicker. And with regard to Danny boy....did ya see the special during the Sugar bowl. He deserves alot of credit for staying involved down there even though his career was not good. Lots of good work he's doing in NO. Hats off.
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

01-04-2006, 04:53 PM	#13
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Originally Posted by yasoon Torretta? That's a good call TR. I just think it's very hard to truly evaluate Leinart when his O is so good. It's almost like taking a free agent off a Belichik defense, but we don't know anything about that Vince Young sure "looks" like AB in uniform, but he is much more poised in interviews and stuff. I'll bet their height/weight are very similar, but Vince's strides seem a bit quicker. And with regard to Danny boy....did ya see the special during the Sugar bowl. He deserves alot of credit for staying involved down there even though his career was not good. Lots of good work he's doing in NO. Hats off. Oh, I love Danny W. He's one of the true good guys... Vince is waay faster than Brooks, and seems not only to have a brain, but be coachable as well... I'm sure he's going to post 4.4's - 4.3's at the combine, if he decides to come out... I guess that would be determined after the Bowl... if the Longhorns win (and I will be cheering for them to win ) is going to be hard for Vince not to come out... ... there are some very good players coming out this year.. I love AJ Hawk's speed and range at LB; there are a few good DT's... but I think Vince Young will put fannies in the seats, and as long as he keeps on saying what he's saying, i.e., the right things to say to the media, he'll be supported, if not loved, in N.O.... ... just imagine the Young vs Vick forum flamewars
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

01-04-2006, 05:12 PM	#14
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	First, I don't think Young goes near a 4.3. 4.4 maybe. But 4.3? Uh uh. I am willing to bet his combine speed will be a surprise as it won't appear as fast as his game speed. Next, he still has work to do mechanics wise. He made a huge leap from last year to this year, but he needs another season of polish. Unless we have a veteran QB who can start next year while he works, I don't see this is a good choice. Also, the Leinart/Toretta comparisons are quite unfair. I don't recall Toretta losing his entire receiving corps and still being the best QB in college football. I also don't recall Toretta being called the best 3 straight years, and projected as a consensus top pick for two years. As a matter of fact: He was drafted in the 7th round in the 1993 NFL draft by the Minnesota Vikings. So I don't know how he reminds anyone of a guy picked int he 7th round. Simply cause he won the Heisman? So did Jason White, and he is no longer in football even. Unfair comparison all around.

01-04-2006, 06:11 PM	#15
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	So I don't know how he reminds anyone of a guy picked int he 7th round. Simply cause he won the Heisman? So did Jason White, and he is no longer in football even. Unfair comparison all around. I was talking as a pocket passer who posted great numbers and won a Heisman. I don't particularly remember the draft when Gino came out, but he just appeared to be a "system" guy. I'm not trying to take anything away from Matt...I really have enjoyed watching him play. The 4th down throw vs Notre Dame was as good of a throw as I've ever seen. I just have this feeling that I fear he will end up like Torretta (obviously with more money). I see your point, though. Maybe an overstatement with the Torretta comparison, I just wonder if Leinart's arm will fizzle in the league.
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

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01-04-2006, 06:15 PM	#16
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,754	In the back of my mind that I try to block out, I have a small feeling he's going to turn out like Cade McNown. Ekk! But I'm all for taking Leinart... he has a lot to bring to the table and he's not McNown, Gino, etc. He's Matt Leinart and I hope we do draft him.

01-04-2006, 07:25 PM	#17
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Originally Posted by saintswhodi First, I don't think Young goes near a 4.3. 4.4 maybe. But 4.3? Uh uh. I am willing to bet his combine speed will be a surprise as it won't appear as fast as his game speed. Next, he still has work to do mechanics wise. He made a huge leap from last year to this year, but he needs another season of polish. Unless we have a veteran QB who can start next year while he works, I don't see this is a good choice. Also, the Leinart/Toretta comparisons are quite unfair. I don't recall Toretta losing his entire receiving corps and still being the best QB in college football. I also don't recall Toretta being called the best 3 straight years, and projected as a consensus top pick for two years. As a matter of fact: He was drafted in the 7th round in the 1993 NFL draft by the Minnesota Vikings. So I don't know how he reminds anyone of a guy picked int he 7th round. Simply cause he won the Heisman? So did Jason White, and he is no longer in football even. Unfair comparison all around. There wasn't the love affair with the 'canes back then (actually, I don't think the media likes the U very much) as the love affair with the Trojans these past couple of years... he may have "lost" his 2 WRs of 2003, yet in 2004 he seemed to throw to wiiiide open WRs who were much faster than the secondaries covering them, while not a single defensive player lay a hand on him. And this year he had Reggie Bush... What reminds me of Torretta is the play on the field, not the hype... Torretta, like Leinart, stood in the pocket, untouched, with all the time in the world, just waiting for the stud receivers to get a few yards of separation, then throwing floaters...
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

01-04-2006, 09:55 PM	#18
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	TR, I still STRONGLY disagree with you comparing Leinart to Toretta, cause he was under heavy duress in the Fresno State game AND the Notre Dame game, and played like a star, BUT I will agree with you that if Vince Young comes out, i'd be looking strongly at taking him. Wow. I thought he was gonna take another year, but damn if he don't look ready now.

01-05-2006, 09:21 AM	#19
jrmllb 500th Post Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alexandria, Louisiana Posts: 665	Vince Young is the real deal...I can't remember who it was, but someone on this site or several people said he was a "raw quarterback"...That is a load of crap from someone who did not watch any film and just digested some dumb critics column and spit it back at us... After watching my first full game of that guy last night I have to totally disagree, VY is the total package...I was not aware of this but he lead the nation in passing effeciency, rushed for over 1000 yards if you count the rose bowl and passed for a butt load of yards with sophomore and freshman WR's...If he comes out he will be a top 5 pick, I say top 5 because I don't think Houston wants him cause they have Carr and need a player like Bush if he comes out...
	"When you see a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra