Defense !!

saintswhodi · 01-10-2006, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by jergensl

the saints need to put butts in the seats next year and go 8-8. if they don't do both start printing new jerseys with the los angeles saints on it.

defense is important to win, but some forget that we actually had a decent defense this year. considering we had the worst turnover margin in the league this year and still had a defense ranked 14th overall says to me that a good defensive coordinator(get rid of venturi)a qb with a brain(leinhart) and a healthy deuce would make the saints a heads on favorite for 2006's worst to first team.

look what pitsburgh did with rothesburger(how ever spell his name) his rookie year. solid defense with a heavy dose of the running game. i agree with charmy and others that we need to pick up a solid young lb in the draft, but i think there will be plenty available when we pick early in the 2nd round.

Good post.

BrooksMustGo · 01-10-2006, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by jergensl

the saints need to put butts in the seats next year and go 8-8. if they don't do both start printing new jerseys with the los angeles saints on it.

defense is important to win, but some forget that we actually had a decent defense this year. considering we had the worst turnover margin in the league this year and still had a defense ranked 14th overall says to me that a good defensive coordinator(get rid of venturi)a qb with a brain(leinhart) and a healthy deuce would make the saints a heads on favorite for 2006's worst to first team.

look what pitsburgh did with rothesburger(how ever spell his name) his rookie year. solid defense with a heavy dose of the running game. i agree with charmy and others that we need to pick up a solid young lb in the draft, but i think there will be plenty available when we pick early in the 2nd round.

I largely agree with this post.
However, I think there are couple of problems with it.

The first thing is, I doubt Deuce will be 100% coming back from the injury next year. We might have the 2 year recovery window similar to Edgerrin James did. I hope I'm wrong at this point.

Second, I'm really concerned that the offensive line we have won't be as effective in a run first attack. Gandy is more of a liability for us.

If we could manage to get another pick in the first 40, I would feel pretty good about being able to address LT, LB and QB.

Maybe the answer is a 2 year rebuild? Suffer through another year of Brooks and don't let Leinart confuse the real needs of this team? I can't believe I'm even considering this.

BrooksMustGo · 01-10-2006, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by mjf150

I know this is slightly off-topic, but BMG, have you given any consideration to a new name, if the team puts us out of our misery and actually does let Brooks go? How about BrooksIsDone?

I have been giving some thought to this. Once it happens I'll need to decide if I'm going to have a more permanent handle. I'm leaning towards "BensonMustGo" at this point.

mjf150 · 01-10-2006, 09:05 AM

BrooksMustGo, just in case you missed the post:
I know this is slightly off-topic, but BMG, have you given any consideration to a new name, if the team puts us out of our misery and actually does let Brooks go? How about BrooksIsDone? Anyone else have a suggestion?

zachsaints52 · 01-10-2006, 09:57 AM

I think we need D, simple as that. Playmakers, and younger guys. Its sad when your DT leds in Tackles. Plus, Deuce IS coming back, maybe not 100%, but he still is.

mjf150 · 01-10-2006, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by BrooksMustGo

I have been giving some thought to this. Once it happens I'll need to decide if I'm going to have a more permanent handle. I'm leaning towards "BensonMustGo" at this point.

Actually, if we're hopeful, "BensonMustGo" would not be a more permanent handle. In a perfect world, he would sell the team and that handle would be obsolete, too. But I like the way you think.

TheDeuce · 01-10-2006, 11:34 AM

Ok, but I have a question. Which would you rather have, a stud QB or a stud MLB? A person to man the offense, or to man the defense? If Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson can lead teams to Super Bowls, why can't we rent a QB and have them play decent for a respectable record?

I would rather have a stud QB, hands down. Look at the Bears over the last few years. They have had Brian Urlacher, one of the best MLBs in the game, but no quarterback; and god almighty they were awful. When he was healthy and playing, there defense was pretty good, but their offense was absolutley horrid. That's exactly like what the Saints are. Our defense is mediocre, and last year with Captain Turnover at the helm, our offense was pitiful. The addition of one LB to our team isn't going to make us the Monsters of the Midway all of a sudden.
I'm sure when you wrote this you were probably thinking about that catchy little cliche "defense wins championships." And hey, maybe you're right. But that's exactly what it means, DEFENSES, entire defenses win championships, not just one player. Urlacher was top 3 best linebackers the last 5 years, but the rest of his defense sucked arse.
So applied to the Saints, the addition of a quarterback to this team would far outweigh the impact of a LB. This is because the rest of our defense isn't that good. We're no 2000 Ravens squad. Just imagine how many games we could have won with a turnover margin in the middle of the NFL teams. Think of how many games we could have won with a good QB. Tons. Probably 7 or 8 more. Now look at how many more games we could have won wiht a good LB. Maybe a couple because our defense wasn't the one choking the game away (usually). The point I'm making again, that I've made countless times over the last few days, but that nobody seems to understand, is that our offense is worse than our defense. YOu address your biggest needs first (offense) with Matt Leinart, and then address your second biggest need with the 34th (one of the standout LBs that are so deep in this draft). This will create balance on the team. Very rarely do you see championship teams that are all defense and no offense (2000 Ravens); just like you see very few championship teams that are all offense and no defense (late 90's Rams). What you do see in the good Super Bowl teams (Patriots, 90's Cowboys), is BALANCE. Sure our defense needs help. But our offense needs more. But you still wanna ignore the offensive problems in hopes that we can build a 2000 Ravens-esque defense? Won't happen. Give me Leinart.

gandhi1007 · 01-10-2006, 11:47 AM

O.K., I've read in all these threads how we have to draft defense in the 1st round. Haven't we done that the past 3 years? Did it pay off? Oh heck, let me answer that. Yes, we drafted defense in the 1st 3 years in a row. Other than Will Smith, HELL NO it didn't pay off. Draft Leinart in the 1st, get Bobby Carpenter in the 2nd & start acting like a franchise that wants to win more than 50% of its games.

saintswhodi · 01-10-2006, 11:48 AM

*saintswhodi starts a slow clap*

The Deuce, wow.
I am really beginning to wonder is it that hard to see?

TheDeuce · 01-10-2006, 01:22 PM

I think everybody else is just disillusioned by the prospect of AJ Hawk. They don't understand that defensive players can bust just as easily as offensive players. They also don't understand fixing your biggest problem, which is in this case, our offense. I think people are just so used to wanting a better defense (because of the last five years), that they are just programmed that way now and its just routine to them. They're like robots walking around saying, "Give me defense or give me death, give me defense...." without realizing the current needs of our team.

01-10-2006, 08:53 AM	#61
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by jergensl the saints need to put butts in the seats next year and go 8-8. if they don't do both start printing new jerseys with the los angeles saints on it. defense is important to win, but some forget that we actually had a decent defense this year. considering we had the worst turnover margin in the league this year and still had a defense ranked 14th overall says to me that a good defensive coordinator(get rid of venturi)a qb with a brain(leinhart) and a healthy deuce would make the saints a heads on favorite for 2006's worst to first team. look what pitsburgh did with rothesburger(how ever spell his name) his rookie year. solid defense with a heavy dose of the running game. i agree with charmy and others that we need to pick up a solid young lb in the draft, but i think there will be plenty available when we pick early in the 2nd round. Good post.

01-10-2006, 08:58 AM	#62
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Originally Posted by jergensl the saints need to put butts in the seats next year and go 8-8. if they don't do both start printing new jerseys with the los angeles saints on it. defense is important to win, but some forget that we actually had a decent defense this year. considering we had the worst turnover margin in the league this year and still had a defense ranked 14th overall says to me that a good defensive coordinator(get rid of venturi)a qb with a brain(leinhart) and a healthy deuce would make the saints a heads on favorite for 2006's worst to first team. look what pitsburgh did with rothesburger(how ever spell his name) his rookie year. solid defense with a heavy dose of the running game. i agree with charmy and others that we need to pick up a solid young lb in the draft, but i think there will be plenty available when we pick early in the 2nd round. I largely agree with this post. However, I think there are couple of problems with it. The first thing is, I doubt Deuce will be 100% coming back from the injury next year. We might have the 2 year recovery window similar to Edgerrin James did. I hope I'm wrong at this point. Second, I'm really concerned that the offensive line we have won't be as effective in a run first attack. Gandy is more of a liability for us. If we could manage to get another pick in the first 40, I would feel pretty good about being able to address LT, LB and QB. Maybe the answer is a 2 year rebuild? Suffer through another year of Brooks and don't let Leinart confuse the real needs of this team? I can't believe I'm even considering this.
	http://www.blackandgold.net/site/signature/buddysig.jpg

01-10-2006, 09:05 AM	#63
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Originally Posted by mjf150 I know this is slightly off-topic, but BMG, have you given any consideration to a new name, if the team puts us out of our misery and actually does let Brooks go? How about BrooksIsDone? I have been giving some thought to this. Once it happens I'll need to decide if I'm going to have a more permanent handle. I'm leaning towards "BensonMustGo" at this point.

01-10-2006, 09:05 AM	#64
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 726	BrooksMustGo, just in case you missed the post: I know this is slightly off-topic, but BMG, have you given any consideration to a new name, if the team puts us out of our misery and actually does let Brooks go? How about BrooksIsDone? Anyone else have a suggestion?
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 726

01-10-2006, 10:06 AM	#66
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 726	Originally Posted by BrooksMustGo I have been giving some thought to this. Once it happens I'll need to decide if I'm going to have a more permanent handle. I'm leaning towards "BensonMustGo" at this point. Actually, if we're hopeful, "BensonMustGo" would not be a more permanent handle. In a perfect world, he would sell the team and that handle would be obsolete, too. But I like the way you think.
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 726

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01-10-2006, 09:57 AM	#65
zachsaints52 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Abingdon, Virginia Posts: 522	I think we need D, simple as that. Playmakers, and younger guys. Its sad when your DT leds in Tackles. Plus, Deuce IS coming back, maybe not 100%, but he still is.

01-10-2006, 11:34 AM	#67
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Ok, but I have a question. Which would you rather have, a stud QB or a stud MLB? A person to man the offense, or to man the defense? If Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson can lead teams to Super Bowls, why can't we rent a QB and have them play decent for a respectable record? I would rather have a stud QB, hands down. Look at the Bears over the last few years. They have had Brian Urlacher, one of the best MLBs in the game, but no quarterback; and god almighty they were awful. When he was healthy and playing, there defense was pretty good, but their offense was absolutley horrid. That's exactly like what the Saints are. Our defense is mediocre, and last year with Captain Turnover at the helm, our offense was pitiful. The addition of one LB to our team isn't going to make us the Monsters of the Midway all of a sudden. I'm sure when you wrote this you were probably thinking about that catchy little cliche "defense wins championships." And hey, maybe you're right. But that's exactly what it means, DEFENSES, entire defenses win championships, not just one player. Urlacher was top 3 best linebackers the last 5 years, but the rest of his defense sucked arse. So applied to the Saints, the addition of a quarterback to this team would far outweigh the impact of a LB. This is because the rest of our defense isn't that good. We're no 2000 Ravens squad. Just imagine how many games we could have won with a turnover margin in the middle of the NFL teams. Think of how many games we could have won with a good QB. Tons. Probably 7 or 8 more. Now look at how many more games we could have won wiht a good LB. Maybe a couple because our defense wasn't the one choking the game away (usually). The point I'm making again, that I've made countless times over the last few days, but that nobody seems to understand, is that our offense is worse than our defense. YOu address your biggest needs first (offense) with Matt Leinart, and then address your second biggest need with the 34th (one of the standout LBs that are so deep in this draft). This will create balance on the team. Very rarely do you see championship teams that are all defense and no offense (2000 Ravens); just like you see very few championship teams that are all offense and no defense (late 90's Rams). What you do see in the good Super Bowl teams (Patriots, 90's Cowboys), is BALANCE. Sure our defense needs help. But our offense needs more. But you still wanna ignore the offensive problems in hopes that we can build a 2000 Ravens-esque defense? Won't happen. Give me Leinart.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

01-10-2006, 11:47 AM	#68
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	O.K., I've read in all these threads how we have to draft defense in the 1st round. Haven't we done that the past 3 years? Did it pay off? Oh heck, let me answer that. Yes, we drafted defense in the 1st 3 years in a row. Other than Will Smith, HELL NO it didn't pay off. Draft Leinart in the 1st, get Bobby Carpenter in the 2nd & start acting like a franchise that wants to win more than 50% of its games.

01-10-2006, 11:48 AM	#69
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	saintswhodi starts a slow clap The Deuce, wow. I am really beginning to wonder is it that hard to see?

01-10-2006, 01:22 PM	#70
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	I think everybody else is just disillusioned by the prospect of AJ Hawk. They don't understand that defensive players can bust just as easily as offensive players. They also don't understand fixing your biggest problem, which is in this case, our offense. I think people are just so used to wanting a better defense (because of the last five years), that they are just programmed that way now and its just routine to them. They're like robots walking around saying, "Give me defense or give me death, give me defense...." without realizing the current needs of our team.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928