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saintswhodi 01-10-2006 12:09 PM

NFL personnel men not sold on Young/So-so on Leinart
 
Quote:

What a tremendous game played Wednesday night between the Texas Longhorns and USC Trojans.

As much as it was a dream game for fans, it was a dream game for NFL personnel men.

And after checking in with a few of them who carry some pretty impressive credentials, you may be surprised that a great performance by Texas quarterback Vince Young does not necessarily leave NFL teams drooling over his eventual arrival into the NFL. The same goes for USC quarterback Matt Leinart.

Samplings:

• "I'd still take Leinart over Young as an NFL quarterback, but Leinart is not a franchise guy in the traditional sense. He's not John Elway, Dan Marino, Peyton Manning or Carson Palmer. Now, really, there aren't a lot of those guys anyway. Alex Smith sure wasn't. When [Texas] blanketed the USC receivers, especially early in the game, you got a glimpse of what the NFL is like. The windows are a lot tighter. Leinart struggled with those. But give the USC coaches credit -- they adjusted and managed to put up, what, over 500 yards against a pretty talented Texas defense?"


Young
• "Young is a great competitor, that's the thing you have to like about him. But be careful about his athleticism. It's a great attribute but he doesn't have Michael Vick's suddenness. He's got real good speed, but it's not world-class speed, and you see what eventually happens to the guys in this league -- they get beat up and they slow down. He is strong for a fairly lean guy. And you have to like his size. But if you do the film cut-ups on just his throws from last night's game, you're going to be fairly unimpressed."

• "Leinart's clearly a bright guy. He's got better feet than most people talk about. His arm strength is average. He doesn't throw as many pure spirals as you would like. But he's a big guy, he's played a lot of football in a pro-style offense and he's had a lot of success. He's not going to carry a franchise on his back, but if you put talent around him, he's going to be a good quarterback in the NFL. And let's face it, we need more good quarterbacks."

• "If Young's performance did anything, it made a case that he should have won the Heisman, not [Reggie] Bush. But that was splitting hairs. That's not a very good USC defense he faced -- didn't Fresno State put up 40 on them? What I like about Young is that he's gotten better every year as far as throwing the football. He does spin it a lot better than he did before. Arm strength, like Leinart, pretty marginal. He won't have the same success running the ball in the NFL, not even close. But he's a leader, he'll generate some excitement, and then he'll get ripped [by the media and fans] when he doesn't dazzle in the NFL like people think. Still, if I were him, I'd probably come out. He needs a lot of work and he might as well start getting it now."

As for Bush, he still projects as the probable No. 1 pick in April's draft by the Houston Texans.

"He still did enough Superman stunts to make you say, 'Wow,'" said one personnel man. "There aren't many players who make you go, 'Wow,' so he's got tremendous value to a team. Maybe he's not a 4.2 guy [in the 40] but he's got plenty of juice."

Now, USC running back LenDale White had all these guys pretty excited.

"That's an NFL back," said one scout. "He's 220 pounds-plus and he will be a big-timer in our league. He won't dazzle, but he's the type of guy with the right team who can win a rushing title and score a lot of touchdowns."


Speaking of QBs
Good news for any NFL team in the market for a proven quarterback coach: Larry Kennan is ready to get back in the business. Kennan has spent the past few years as the director of the NFL Coaches Association, where his leadership was greatly needed to improve benefits for assistant coaches around the league.
"When I started doing what I am doing now, I gave my word to the coaches who asked me that I would do this until I felt I wasn't needed any more," Kennan said. "In February, we began talks with [NFL Players Association executive director] Gene Upshaw to get much more involved in day-to-day operations in ways he could and I couldn't. That's been done. Gene agreed to take a lot of this over.

"So my obligation is done and I might keep doing this, but I'm a coach and a coach ought to be coaching, and if the right job came along, I might be very interested."

Kennan's previous work as an NFL assistant has some very notable and intriguing achievements.

He coached Jeff George as a rookie in Indianapolis and he coached Rick Mirer as a rookie in Seattle.

Don't laugh. George's rookie season with the Colts at the time was the second-best in NFL history behind Dan Marino's. Then came Mirer in Seattle, and Mirer's season surpassed George's.

As it stands now, Mirer and George have the third- and fourth-best rookie seasons on record behind Marino and the Steelers' Ben Roethlisberger. The difference? Mirer and George played for bad teams -- Kennan was the victim of head coach dismissals during those terms.

When Kennan was sought by his peers for his latest calling, he fed his football hunger by serving as a paid consultant for the powerful IMG football operations headed by Tom Condon. He specifically trained and prepared quarterbacks such as Eli Manning, Alex Smith, Tim Couch and Cade McNown for their pre-draft workouts.

Regardless of how they produced later, their work in pre-draft workouts under Kennan's tutelage was always impressive.

Archie Manning praised Kennan's work with Eli, saying, "Eli really liked Larry. I knew he was an excellent coach, even when he spent a year in New Orleans. He's really good."
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insid...ris&id=2281337

gandhi1007 01-10-2006 01:04 PM

RE: NFL personnel men not sold on Young/So-so on Leinart
 
Nice post, whodi.

TheDeuce 01-10-2006 01:25 PM

RE: NFL personnel men not sold on Young/So-so on Leinart
 
Quote:

He won't have the same success running the ball in the NFL, not even close
True dat.

GoldenTomb 01-10-2006 01:44 PM

Well I see my concerns about Leinart are shared by NFL personnel. He's got some things to seriously work on to be a top flight NFL QB.

CheramieIII 01-10-2006 01:49 PM

RE: NFL personnel men not sold on Young/So-so on Leinart
 
You guys are so sold on Leinart and so not on Young that you did not even pick up on the "so-so" about Leinart. Here a quote about Leinart from the article above:
Quote:

He's not going to carry a franchise on his back, but if you put talent around him, he's going to be a good quarterback in the NFL. And let's face it, we need more good quarterbacks."
I know I don't have to say anything more, because if you're calling our OLine, Stallworth (can't catch a ball), Horn (has TOidis) and Deuce (you can depend on me to get hurt) talented righ now I know one thing for sure if we draft Leinart he will get KILLED. As in Murder, Death, Kill.

Thank you for your support.

saintswhodi 01-10-2006 02:25 PM

Ease back Cher. Calm down bro. This is just some personnel guy's opinions. First, there are not nearly as many ???s about Leinart as there are about Young. Second, if there are questions like this about Leinart and Young, both picked to go top three, what do you think the questions are on Cutler, Jacobs, and anyone else down the line in the draft? Third, ANYONE can be a bust. It's not as cut and dry as picking defense is better than offense, as you are pushing. We could trade down and draft a bust. What you do though, is you take the best guess of a guy who can help you. How do we know the probs this O-line had, and drops by receivers, aren't due to coaching? How is it that Denver's o-line ALWAYS churns out 100 yard backs? How is it their O-line coach goes to Atlanta, and they become the best rushing team in the league? SCHEMES. A new coach brings new blocking schemes, which could help our line, making Leinart the perfect choice for him. Who knows? Ease back on picking the man apart.

TheDeuce 01-10-2006 03:10 PM

I think Leinart might have disrespected Cher's momma

MordorIV 01-10-2006 06:09 PM

We will see in the draft.

CheramieIII 01-10-2006 06:12 PM

Guys don't get me wrong, I don't think Leinart will be a bust, I think given time and the right surroundings he will be a good QB in the NFL, how good only time will tell. What I am trying to say is that I do not think we have 2 or 3 more years for a QB to develop before he makes an impact. I think next year we have to make the playoffs. The NFL is watching very closely now and there have been articles about San Diego not funding a new stadium, so the Chargers maybe looking at relocating anyway. I just think it is going to be far more important that we put fans in the seats (sellouts at home) and create as much interest in the Saints (playoffs would be nice) in Louisiana as possible next year and I think winning games will go alot farther to that end then drafting a QB of the Future.

No, my momma doesn't like California boys, she likes her some cajun! and just because Leinart may become a Saint won't make him one of those either.

MordorIV 01-10-2006 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CheramieIII
Guys don't get me wrong, I don't think Leinart will be a bust, I think given time and the right surroundings he will be a good QB in the NFL, how good only time will tell. What I am trying to say is that I do not think we have 2 or 3 more years for a QB to develop before he makes an impact. I think next year we have to make the playoffs. The NFL is watching very closely now and there have been articles about San Diego not funding a new stadium, so the Chargers maybe looking at relocating anyway. I just think it is going to be far more important that we put fans in the seats (sellouts at home) and create as much interest in the Saints (playoffs would be nice) in Louisiana as possible next year and I think winning games will go alot farther to that end then drafting a QB of the Future.

No, my momma doesn't like California boys, she likes her some cajun! and just because Leinart may become a Saint won't make him one of those either.



Stop blowing $()$() D, calm down its not WWII.

Just the future of the saints.

MordorIV 01-10-2006 06:17 PM

We need a good OF pick and D pick so pick Vince or Leinart either is good in different ways look at Jake Plummer he sucked when he was at Arizona now he's at the Broncos and he's going to the playoffs 2nd seed, like my father CIII has said before if you surround any one QB with good players he will be a star.

saintswhodi 01-10-2006 06:38 PM

What I know is, NOTHING puts butts in the seats like a franchise QB. NOTHING. You wanna see people buy jerseys, you wanna see people at the games, draft Leinart. You wanna see an empty stadium if we don't have a winning record midway? Have Collins, Volek, or Garrard starting and draft AJ Hawk. NOTHING gives fans hope like the thought that they have the next great QB. A franchise QB will also bring in more casual fans than a LB would. IF you are thinking about seats in the dome, then you are thinking about taking Leinart.

MordorIV 01-10-2006 06:40 PM

Im not saying take Hawk i just like him alot but pick Leinart if he's there in the end Leinart will be better after the saints get good players around him. get it.

AllSaints 01-10-2006 06:53 PM

<<< Be the first to get a Leinart Jersey.....

Maybe somehow I can get the 1 he holds up with Tag.

It only says 1 on it but Leinart would have touched it lol.....

Gooooo Leinart...

TheDeuce 01-10-2006 07:20 PM

Quote:

What I know is, NOTHING puts butts in the seats like a franchise QB.
So true again whodi. ANd why is that? Is it because no one position on the team affects the ENTIRE team like a quarterback? I think so.

saintswhodi 01-10-2006 07:21 PM

Okay, now that's just frightening AllSaints. You wanna :hump: Leinart. Calm down man.

MordorIV 01-10-2006 07:22 PM

I think so to.

CheramieIII 01-10-2006 07:23 PM

You say potato and I say tomato, blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada.

MordorIV 01-10-2006 07:25 PM

YAda what? Dont make me put exlax in your cerel dad.

AllSaints 01-10-2006 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saintswhodi
Okay, now that's just frightening AllSaints. You wanna :hump: Leinart. Calm down man.

LMAOOOOOOOO

Guys wats matter with that? no lmaoo just kiddin damn...

HAHAHAHH

MordorIV 01-10-2006 07:28 PM

Just fun and games.

jergensl 01-11-2006 05:33 AM

i don't think leinhart will come in his rookie year and turn us into a super bowl contender and throw for 30 tds. i do think he can come in and manage an offense with some good skill position players and an o line that might play for a guy who gives them a chance.

if we draft leinhart we will still need to upgrade the defense a little. the offense will need to be a quick short passing game that takes advantage of leinharts ability to ready defenses and his accuracy. this too will keep d-linemen from murder death killing him. the health of deuce will be huge. this past season has shown that stecker is a good back but not good enough to carry the load (sidenote: stecker should have gotten the carries instead of spliting them with old man smith).

with a run first short passing game and a solid, but not great defense the saints can atleast make a run at the playoffs and finish around 8-8 next season.

xan 01-11-2006 09:11 AM

whodi, I'm with you on the "put the butts in the seats" concept. I'm just torn between doing that and causing the franchise more dismal seasons by not filling gaping holes. That said, the qb position has been a gaping hole for 5 years. Let's see how these guys work out in combines and individuals. there's not a lot one can tell from watching film of Leinart beating up the Berkeley Halfway House or Young run around the Baylor Cement Shoes.

pakowitz 01-11-2006 09:55 AM

Quote:

What I know is, NOTHING puts butts in the seats like a franchise QB. NOTHING. You wanna see people buy jerseys, you wanna see people at the games, draft Leinart. You wanna see an empty stadium if we don't have a winning record midway? Have Collins, Volek, or Garrard starting and draft AJ Hawk. NOTHING gives fans hope like the thought that they have the next great QB. A franchise QB will also bring in more casual fans than a LB would. IF you are thinking about seats in the dome, then you are thinking about taking Leinart.
actually i dont think drafting leinert will help in getting tickets sold.... alot of saints fans are also LSU fans who despise leinert and the whole Trojan media bandwagon... which u have obviously jumped aboard.... and drafting leinert will only push those people further away...if u really wanted seats in the stands an jerseys sold... take young or bush... both are far more exciting and young grew up in houston... not far from a good saints fan base .....

saintswhodi 01-11-2006 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xan
whodi, I'm with you on the "put the butts in the seats" concept. I'm just torn between doing that and causing the franchise more dismal seasons by not filling gaping holes. That said, the qb position has been a gaping hole for 5 years. Let's see how these guys work out in combines and individuals. there's not a lot one can tell from watching film of Leinart beating up the Berkeley Halfway House or Young run around the Baylor Cement Shoes.

I can agree to that. I don't expect the combine to hurt his at all though.

TheDeuce 01-11-2006 10:06 AM

Quote:

alot of saints fans are also LSU fans who despise leinert and the whole Trojan media bandwagon...
Quote:

and drafting leinert will only push those people further away...if u really wanted seats in the stands an jerseys sold... take young or bush...
Last time I checked Leinart and Bush played on the same team....

Also, I don't really think Saints fans are that prejudiced against where guys on the Saints played their college ball. I mean, our best offensive player (Deuce) played at one of LSU's most historic rivals, but nobody gives a crap. I think you're just digging for excuses not to like Leinart...

What next? We shouldn't take Leinart because he uses Crest, while the most popular toothpaste in Louisiana is COlgate?

saintswhodi 01-11-2006 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pakowitz
Quote:

What I know is, NOTHING puts butts in the seats like a franchise QB. NOTHING. You wanna see people buy jerseys, you wanna see people at the games, draft Leinart. You wanna see an empty stadium if we don't have a winning record midway? Have Collins, Volek, or Garrard starting and draft AJ Hawk. NOTHING gives fans hope like the thought that they have the next great QB. A franchise QB will also bring in more casual fans than a LB would. IF you are thinking about seats in the dome, then you are thinking about taking Leinart.
actually i dont think drafting leinert will help in getting tickets sold.... alot of saints fans are also LSU fans who despise leinert and the whole Trojan media bandwagon... which u have obviously jumped aboard.... and drafting leinert will only push those people further away...if u really wanted seats in the stands an jerseys sold... take young or bush... both are far more exciting and young grew up in houston... not far from a good saints fan base .....

Where do I even start with this? A lot of LSU fans also aren't Saints fans, and could care less about them. Hence, selling out Tiger Stadium for an LSU game, but there being 40,000 empty seats the next day at a Saints game. And how have I jumped aboard the USC media bandwagon? I am an LSU Tiger fan, only and always. But it's stupid to think there aren't great players at other schools. Damn stupid. But, you want it to appear youhaven't jumped on the bandwagon, when every other word out of your mouth is Reggie Bush. Hypocrite much?

Quote:

and drafting leinert will only push those people further away...if u really wanted seats in the stands an jerseys sold... take young or bush
Wait, so taking Leinart cause he is from USC will push people away, who lived in Baton Rouge and didn't go to Saints games anyway, but taking Reggie Bush, also from USC WON'T push them away? I don't think I need to listen to you anymore. Your bias is far too evident for you to be objective.

pakowitz 01-11-2006 10:16 AM

Quote:

Wait, so taking Leinart cause he is from USC will push people away, who lived in Baton Rouge and didn't go to Saints games anyway, but taking Reggie Bush, also from USC WON'T push them away
the difference is... back in 03, it was leinert who was all over the television claiming to have won a NC, i dont ever remember seeing bush screaming that LSUs title was crap...plus id rather have a humble solid running back b/c we know that deuce is going to get hurt again... then a pompus arragont ******* who thinks he is the greatest qb in the world....

TheDeuce 01-11-2006 10:20 AM

Quote:

b/c we know that deuce is going to get hurt again
Are you a prophet or something? Pak, are you Miss Chleo? Can you really see into the future?!?!?!?! That's awesome!

It's obvious you have some grudge and you're ridiculously biased. Anything you say about this topic now I will regard as complete trash.

saintswhodi 01-11-2006 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDeuce
Quote:

b/c we know that deuce is going to get hurt again
Are you a prophet or something? Pak, are you Miss Chleo? Can you really see into the future?!?!?!?! That's awesome!

It's obvious you have some grudge and you're ridiculously biased. Anything you say about this topic now I will regard as complete trash.

Couldn't agree more.

pakowitz 01-11-2006 10:30 AM

so u are seriously going to sit there and tell me that u have been happy with the play of deuce for the past 2 years?!!?! he has lost all of his burst and isnt fast enough to hit the holes.. he has good hands but cant seem to catch the ball...

TheDeuce 01-11-2006 10:36 AM

No of course I'm not happy with his play, but I'm not going to give up on him, draft another RB when we already have one with Pro-Bowl talent especially when we have so many other needs. I also think that both of the injuries were kind of freak accideents. In 2004, he had a severe ankle sprain, but the guy came back weeks early and rushed for over 1000 yards. He's still a good player and I think it's ridiculous to give up on him so early.

pakowitz 01-11-2006 10:40 AM

im not by any means giving up on him but id like to be breath a little easier knowing that if he does go down we have someone good to replace him and i dont even want to hear about stecker.. so dont...

TheDeuce 01-11-2006 10:48 AM

OK so let's use our #2 overall pick on Reggie Bush to fill a hole that doesn't even exist. Smith and STecker are decent back-ups IF Deuce gets hurt again. But why would we want to draft a QB or LB or DT or CB when we could get another RB? I would love to see Reggie on our team, but not if it means having Todd Bouman or AMAC as our QB, or even seeing McKinnon, Slaughter, and Watson as our LBs.

Euphoria 01-11-2006 10:56 AM

uhm well some can argue that there is a whole at RB. You don't get speed/burst back once it starts to go... its gone. Reggie will bring a new dimension to the offense and a 2nd RB. You can't deny that the Broncos have been very successful with there 2 RB's in the backfield. Its not just about Deuce getting hurt. I also feel that AB will be the starter again if Amac isn't ready and who is the coach at the start of the season. We also have other picks to fill holes.

saintswhodi 01-11-2006 11:15 AM

Um, the Broncos have done it with second and third round RBs, not taking RBs number two over all. Terrell Davis was a 6th rounder, I think Mike anderson was undrafted, or was also drafted late. Tatum Bell was second round, and Ron Dayne was a retread. So if we NEED a backup RB, take Addai in the 4th if he's there. Since the Broncos are the example, we don't need a RB at #2. Good job Euphoria.

Crusader 01-11-2006 11:16 AM

You can't compare the play of our O-line to the Broncos. If our o-line would be playing the same way Stecker and Smith would be plenty, I honestly believe that none of the Broncos RBs stack up against Deuce, at all. But they have great coaching and a great system which gets the bes out of every player.

pakowitz 01-11-2006 11:18 AM

addai will probably be a late 1st early 2nd round pick...

this is based on the assumption that bush and white both dont enter the draft...

from ya boy mel kiper...

Running Backs
1. DeAngelo Williams, Memphis
2. Laurence Maroney, Minnesota (Junior)
3. Joseph Addai, LSU
4. Jerome Harrison, Washington State
5. Leon Washington, Florida State
5a. Andre Hall, South Florida
5b. P.J. Daniels, Georgia Tech

saintswhodi 01-11-2006 11:27 AM

Um, that's only seniors, and White has entered the draft. So that then makes Addai the FIFTH RB that should be chosen when Bush declares? I like our chances. Especially if we can trade Brooks for a third.

pakowitz 01-11-2006 11:33 AM

didnt i just say that it was based on bush and white not being there....i coulda swore i wrote that....let me scroll up n check... yes i did say that.............


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