1280 says Payton offered the job.

mjf150 · 01-17-2006, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by GoldenTomb

The retread experiments generally don't work. What second time head coach that was fired in his previous job do you know of that does as well or better in his second job. Outside of Marty Schottenheimer, Bill Belichek and Tony Dungy, i would say NONE! Look at the teams left in the playoffs.

You convienently left out the other team in the playoffs, the Broncos. Mike Shanahan was fired from his previous job as head coach of the Raiders and yet he went on to lead the Bronco to, not one, but two Super Bowls. Between he and Belichek, these "retreads" have 5 Super Bowls total. I'll take a "retread" over Peyton any day.

DblBogey · 01-17-2006, 08:31 AM

when I see him standing next to Benson at the press conference acknowledging that fact.

I can only hope that Payton is his own man, because the day he stands next to Benson his life will take on a whole new dimension unlike he has ever experienced before. I keep praying relentlessly that Bradshaw can put together a deal that Benson can't refuse.

mjf150 · 01-17-2006, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by GoldenTomb

Furthermore no one is giving Payton the time of day at all, regardless of the fact that he was the offensive coordinator of a Super Bowl team.

Using your "He was FIRED" logic, so he must not be any good, then because no one wants to give Peyton the "time of day" he must not be any good. There is a reason no one wants him.
Maybe you should wonder, "Why no one is giving Peyton the time of day?"

GoldenTomb · 01-17-2006, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by mjf150

Originally Posted by GoldenTomb

Furthermore no one is giving Payton the time of day at all, regardless of the fact that he was the offensive coordinator of a Super Bowl team.

Using your "He was FIRED" logic, so he must not be any good, then because no one wants to give Peyton the "time of day" he must not be any good. There is a reason no one wants him.
Maybe you should wonder, "Why no one is giving Peyton the time of day?"

That's pretty simple. It's because no one knows who he is. The guy is getting job interviews yet so many people on here are saying he's not qualified. Apparently he must be if he's gettingb the interviews. Furthermore, people know who Sherman is so naturally they want the coach that they know rather than the coordinator who is unproven. That's hardly a reason to critcize him though. And you're twisting it...I never said that Sherman was no good. I just said the he was fired and that shouldn't be overlooked.

And you're right Shanahan is a retread. I forgot his two year stint with the Raiders, although working for Al Davis should give him a pass. However for every Shanahan, there's a Mariucci, Palmer, Capers, and a Ditka. It takes the right owner, the right team and the right coach for a retread to succeed. Like I said we should be fine with either of them. I just can't see why people automatically say we are doomed if we get Payton. They are basing off of nothing.

mjf150 · 01-17-2006, 10:47 AM

What is you response to my other post?

SAINTSFAN834 · 01-17-2006, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by GoldenTomb

OK...well i well just put it like this.

I'm generally opposed to taking previous HCs that were fired from their previous jobs....retreads if u you will. Why??? Because they were FIRED!!! You can say what you want about how it was the injuries and what not, but I'm sure that's not the only reason he was fired. That's like saying the only reason Haz was fired was because they went 3-13 this year. There are issues that you don't know of.

The retread experiments generally don't work. What second time head coach that was fired in his previous job do you know of that does as well or better in his second job. Outside of Marty Schottenheimer, Bill Belichek and Tony Dungy, i would say NONE! Look at the teams left in the playoffs. 3 of those teams....Denver, Carolina, and Pittsburg, have head coaches that are in their first stints as head coaches. The forth, Seattle, has Holmgren, who wasn't fired from his job, and who has a Super Bowl to his credit. The good ones don't get fired. All of the head coaches in the league were new at some point, guys. Remember this too guys....Sherman and Martz both had Super Bowl caliber teams handed to them.

I am sure there are many more that did not become successful on their first stint. As a matter of fact, the comment is usually that they are better prepared the second time around. Under your scenario, NE is crazy for ever hiring that Bellichek bum since he got fired once.

And to compare Haslett's situation here to Sherman is laughable. Had the 3-13 year come on the heels of the types of seasons Sherman produced, I am sure Haslett would still be here. The ONLY reason Sherman was fired is that Thompson felt threatened by him. Heck, look who he hired - McCarthy!

mattsprawls · 01-17-2006, 11:01 AM

Guys....Guys...Guys...settle down.

Let me put some perspective on this. All everyone in the city and the football world is enthralled with a Parcells protege. Payton has been that man for 9 years...While I strongly agree that we all can give a big F-U to Martz. I like Patyon or Henderson. Heres why:

Payton= Parcells no nonsense approach and if you read reports out of reporters covering Dallas Payton has the nuts to stand up to Parcells and argue his points and Parcells listens to the man so that must mean something... Payton will also bring us almost assuradly a new top flight Defensive Coordinator seeing that is on the offensive side of football and that = good defense see Ron Zook rehire here?

Henderson= No nosense style disciplinarian which is what we need here, see 2005 penalty and turnover stats. Also if any one says Henderson rode the JETS d into the ground look at their stats over the last 2 years...not bad. And lastly if you read all reports on the man it is the players would run themselves into a brick wall at full speed if the man asked them to. That is a good thing because everyone knows that on this level players just resemble the system they are asked to play in...see Saints of 2000 Defense...specificly #59 Kieth Mitchell....come on he was a product of Ron Zooks system...dont tell me he was a top flight OLB...dont think so...but the system made him part of a stellar Defense... I could go on and on with the 2000 saints d...Fred Weary CB...Kevin Mathis...Darren Smith playing out of position in the MLB spot.

Bottom Line is so far we have pretty much had Defensive minded Head Coaches in the past.. Lets try an Offensive mind for once.

GoldenTomb · 01-17-2006, 11:05 AM

I am sure there are many more that did not become successful on their first stint. As a matter of fact, the comment is usually that they are better prepared the second time around. Under your scenario, NE is crazy for ever hiring that Bellichek bum since he got fired once.

And to compare Haslett's situation here to Sherman is laughable. Had the 3-13 year come on the heels of the types of seasons Sherman produced, I am sure Haslett would still be here. The ONLY reason Sherman was fired is that Thompson felt threatened by him. Heck, look who he hired - McCarthy!

Well if u read my post i mentioned Belichek as one of the exceptions. And lets assume that the reason that Sherman got fired in GB is true. You think he would fare better down here with TOM BENSON and MICKEY LOOMIS?! LOL...right.

I'm not opposed to Sherman. If we get him i will still support the team. I just wonder why everyone expects so much from Sherman and so little from Payton.

mjf150 · 01-17-2006, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by GoldenTomb

However for every Shanahan, there's a Mariucci, Palmer, Capers, and a Ditka. It takes the right owner, the right team and the right coach for a retread to succeed. They are basing off of nothing.

First, for every Mariucci, Palmer, Capers, and Ditka, there is a Dave Campo, Chan Gailey, Jim Haslett, Butch Davis, Chris Palmer, Dave McGinnis, Vince Tobin, Marty Mornhinweg, etc. In other words, like SAINTSFAN said, there are far more examples of first term failures than second term bust. By the way, several of those names have come from the Cowboys organization.

Second, it takes the "right owner, the right team, and right coach" in any situation. Especially, when it comes to a first-time head coach.

Third, as far as basing the criticism off of nothing, you are basing his prospects of success on nothing. The guy has never proved himself, and the reason he has never had the chance to is because, obviously, he has never done anything to prove that he deserves a chance.

Forth, based on this organizations track record, there can be only two reasons for bringing in someone who is unproven: One, he will sign for cheap. And, two, Benson can control him, and continue to make the football decisions. And you know that to be true, based on Bensons history and ego.

GoldenTomb · 01-17-2006, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by mjf150

Originally Posted by GoldenTomb

However for every Shanahan, there's a Mariucci, Palmer, Capers, and a Ditka. It takes the right owner, the right team and the right coach for a retread to succeed. They are basing off of nothing.

First, for every Mariucci, Palmer, Capers, and Ditka, there is a Dave Campo, Chan Gailey, Jim Haslett, Butch Davis, Chris Palmer, Dave McGinnis, Vince Tobin, Marty Mornhinweg, etc. In other words, like SAINTSFAN said, there are far more examples of first term failures than second term bust. By the way, several of those names have come from the Cowboys organization.

Second, it takes the "right owner, the right team, and right coach" in any situation. Especially, when it comes to a first-time head coach.

Third, as far as basing the criticism off of nothing, you are basing his prospects of success on nothing. The guy has never proved himself, and the reason he has never had the chance to is because, obviously, he has never done anything to prove that he deserves a chance.

Forth, based on this organizations track record, there can be only two reasons for bringing in someone who is unproven: One, he will sign for cheap. And, two, Benson can control him, and continue to make the football decisions. And you know that to be true, based on Bensons history and ego.

I never claimed Payton will be successful or unsuccessful. I'm reacting to other's comments who are saying we are doomed for the next 5 years if we get him. That's unfair and ignorant to make that statement. It's true that he may sign for cheap, but who are you or anyone else outside of the NFL to say if he is deserving or not. Two NFL teams apparently think he is deserving. And why would he be getting job offers if he was undeserving??? He's just as deserving as Brad Childress or Eric Mangini. All three coaches have been to Super Bowls. Furthermore, he would already BE coach of the Raiders if he hadn't TURNED THE JOB DOWN IN '04.

01-17-2006, 08:26 AM	#21
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752	Re: RE: Re: RE: 1280 says Payton offered the job. Originally Posted by GoldenTomb The retread experiments generally don't work. What second time head coach that was fired in his previous job do you know of that does as well or better in his second job. Outside of Marty Schottenheimer, Bill Belichek and Tony Dungy, i would say NONE! Look at the teams left in the playoffs. You convienently left out the other team in the playoffs, the Broncos. Mike Shanahan was fired from his previous job as head coach of the Raiders and yet he went on to lead the Bronco to, not one, but two Super Bowls. Between he and Belichek, these "retreads" have 5 Super Bowls total. I'll take a "retread" over Peyton any day.
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752

01-17-2006, 08:31 AM	#22
DblBogey 500th Post Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 538	when I see him standing next to Benson at the press conference acknowledging that fact. I can only hope that Payton is his own man, because the day he stands next to Benson his life will take on a whole new dimension unlike he has ever experienced before. I keep praying relentlessly that Bradshaw can put together a deal that Benson can't refuse.
DblBogey 500th Post Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 538

01-17-2006, 08:32 AM	#23
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752	Originally Posted by GoldenTomb Furthermore no one is giving Payton the time of day at all, regardless of the fact that he was the offensive coordinator of a Super Bowl team. Using your "He was FIRED" logic, so he must not be any good, then because no one wants to give Peyton the "time of day" he must not be any good. There is a reason no one wants him. Maybe you should wonder, "Why no one is giving Peyton the time of day?"
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752

01-17-2006, 10:41 AM	#24
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Originally Posted by mjf150 Originally Posted by GoldenTomb Furthermore no one is giving Payton the time of day at all, regardless of the fact that he was the offensive coordinator of a Super Bowl team. Using your "He was FIRED" logic, so he must not be any good, then because no one wants to give Peyton the "time of day" he must not be any good. There is a reason no one wants him. Maybe you should wonder, "Why no one is giving Peyton the time of day?" That's pretty simple. It's because no one knows who he is. The guy is getting job interviews yet so many people on here are saying he's not qualified. Apparently he must be if he's gettingb the interviews. Furthermore, people know who Sherman is so naturally they want the coach that they know rather than the coordinator who is unproven. That's hardly a reason to critcize him though. And you're twisting it...I never said that Sherman was no good. I just said the he was fired and that shouldn't be overlooked. And you're right Shanahan is a retread. I forgot his two year stint with the Raiders, although working for Al Davis should give him a pass. However for every Shanahan, there's a Mariucci, Palmer, Capers, and a Ditka. It takes the right owner, the right team and the right coach for a retread to succeed. Like I said we should be fine with either of them. I just can't see why people automatically say we are doomed if we get Payton. They are basing off of nothing.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

01-17-2006, 10:47 AM	#25
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752	What is you response to my other post?
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752

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01-17-2006, 10:52 AM	#26
SAINTSFAN834 Registered Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 70	Re: RE: Re: RE: 1280 says Payton offered the job. Originally Posted by GoldenTomb OK...well i well just put it like this. I'm generally opposed to taking previous HCs that were fired from their previous jobs....retreads if u you will. Why??? Because they were FIRED!!! You can say what you want about how it was the injuries and what not, but I'm sure that's not the only reason he was fired. That's like saying the only reason Haz was fired was because they went 3-13 this year. There are issues that you don't know of. The retread experiments generally don't work. What second time head coach that was fired in his previous job do you know of that does as well or better in his second job. Outside of Marty Schottenheimer, Bill Belichek and Tony Dungy, i would say NONE! Look at the teams left in the playoffs. 3 of those teams....Denver, Carolina, and Pittsburg, have head coaches that are in their first stints as head coaches. The forth, Seattle, has Holmgren, who wasn't fired from his job, and who has a Super Bowl to his credit. The good ones don't get fired. All of the head coaches in the league were new at some point, guys. Remember this too guys....Sherman and Martz both had Super Bowl caliber teams handed to them. I am sure there are many more that did not become successful on their first stint. As a matter of fact, the comment is usually that they are better prepared the second time around. Under your scenario, NE is crazy for ever hiring that Bellichek bum since he got fired once. And to compare Haslett's situation here to Sherman is laughable. Had the 3-13 year come on the heels of the types of seasons Sherman produced, I am sure Haslett would still be here. The ONLY reason Sherman was fired is that Thompson felt threatened by him. Heck, look who he hired - McCarthy!
SAINTSFAN834 Registered Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 70

01-17-2006, 11:01 AM	#27
mattsprawls Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 14	Guys....Guys...Guys...settle down. Let me put some perspective on this. All everyone in the city and the football world is enthralled with a Parcells protege. Payton has been that man for 9 years...While I strongly agree that we all can give a big F-U to Martz. I like Patyon or Henderson. Heres why: Payton= Parcells no nonsense approach and if you read reports out of reporters covering Dallas Payton has the nuts to stand up to Parcells and argue his points and Parcells listens to the man so that must mean something... Payton will also bring us almost assuradly a new top flight Defensive Coordinator seeing that is on the offensive side of football and that = good defense see Ron Zook rehire here? Henderson= No nosense style disciplinarian which is what we need here, see 2005 penalty and turnover stats. Also if any one says Henderson rode the JETS d into the ground look at their stats over the last 2 years...not bad. And lastly if you read all reports on the man it is the players would run themselves into a brick wall at full speed if the man asked them to. That is a good thing because everyone knows that on this level players just resemble the system they are asked to play in...see Saints of 2000 Defense...specificly #59 Kieth Mitchell....come on he was a product of Ron Zooks system...dont tell me he was a top flight OLB...dont think so...but the system made him part of a stellar Defense... I could go on and on with the 2000 saints d...Fred Weary CB...Kevin Mathis...Darren Smith playing out of position in the MLB spot. Bottom Line is so far we have pretty much had Defensive minded Head Coaches in the past.. Lets try an Offensive mind for once.
mattsprawls Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 14

01-17-2006, 11:05 AM	#28
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Re: RE: Re: RE: 1280 says Payton offered the job. I am sure there are many more that did not become successful on their first stint. As a matter of fact, the comment is usually that they are better prepared the second time around. Under your scenario, NE is crazy for ever hiring that Bellichek bum since he got fired once. And to compare Haslett's situation here to Sherman is laughable. Had the 3-13 year come on the heels of the types of seasons Sherman produced, I am sure Haslett would still be here. The ONLY reason Sherman was fired is that Thompson felt threatened by him. Heck, look who he hired - McCarthy! Well if u read my post i mentioned Belichek as one of the exceptions. And lets assume that the reason that Sherman got fired in GB is true. You think he would fare better down here with TOM BENSON and MICKEY LOOMIS?! LOL...right. I'm not opposed to Sherman. If we get him i will still support the team. I just wonder why everyone expects so much from Sherman and so little from Payton.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

01-17-2006, 11:16 AM	#29
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752	Originally Posted by GoldenTomb However for every Shanahan, there's a Mariucci, Palmer, Capers, and a Ditka. It takes the right owner, the right team and the right coach for a retread to succeed. They are basing off of nothing. First, for every Mariucci, Palmer, Capers, and Ditka, there is a Dave Campo, Chan Gailey, Jim Haslett, Butch Davis, Chris Palmer, Dave McGinnis, Vince Tobin, Marty Mornhinweg, etc. In other words, like SAINTSFAN said, there are far more examples of first term failures than second term bust. By the way, several of those names have come from the Cowboys organization. Second, it takes the "right owner, the right team, and right coach" in any situation. Especially, when it comes to a first-time head coach. Third, as far as basing the criticism off of nothing, you are basing his prospects of success on nothing. The guy has never proved himself, and the reason he has never had the chance to is because, obviously, he has never done anything to prove that he deserves a chance. Forth, based on this organizations track record, there can be only two reasons for bringing in someone who is unproven: One, he will sign for cheap. And, two, Benson can control him, and continue to make the football decisions. And you know that to be true, based on Bensons history and ego.
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752

01-17-2006, 11:27 AM	#30
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Originally Posted by mjf150 Originally Posted by GoldenTomb However for every Shanahan, there's a Mariucci, Palmer, Capers, and a Ditka. It takes the right owner, the right team and the right coach for a retread to succeed. They are basing off of nothing. First, for every Mariucci, Palmer, Capers, and Ditka, there is a Dave Campo, Chan Gailey, Jim Haslett, Butch Davis, Chris Palmer, Dave McGinnis, Vince Tobin, Marty Mornhinweg, etc. In other words, like SAINTSFAN said, there are far more examples of first term failures than second term bust. By the way, several of those names have come from the Cowboys organization. Second, it takes the "right owner, the right team, and right coach" in any situation. Especially, when it comes to a first-time head coach. Third, as far as basing the criticism off of nothing, you are basing his prospects of success on nothing. The guy has never proved himself, and the reason he has never had the chance to is because, obviously, he has never done anything to prove that he deserves a chance. Forth, based on this organizations track record, there can be only two reasons for bringing in someone who is unproven: One, he will sign for cheap. And, two, Benson can control him, and continue to make the football decisions. And you know that to be true, based on Bensons history and ego. I never claimed Payton will be successful or unsuccessful. I'm reacting to other's comments who are saying we are doomed for the next 5 years if we get him. That's unfair and ignorant to make that statement. It's true that he may sign for cheap, but who are you or anyone else outside of the NFL to say if he is deserving or not. Two NFL teams apparently think he is deserving. And why would he be getting job offers if he was undeserving??? He's just as deserving as Brad Childress or Eric Mangini. All three coaches have been to Super Bowls. Furthermore, he would already BE coach of the Raiders if he hadn't TURNED THE JOB DOWN IN '04.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591