Wait one second!!! How can you say that Brooks has never stepped up in the pocket and thrown a crisp pass? That just sounds like AB bashing to me. I know you and I saw the SAME Saints games. Brooks ran from the pocket when he had to for the most part. The man used his mobility very well whodi. I don't know how or why you would deny him that.

Um, what I said after that was:

Miss that? But like I said to TR, I am not gonna argue with you about it. If you can't see it for yourself, well, that's on you. I'll just take QB opinions from you with a grain of salt from here forward. No biggie.

Its all good whodi...passion can make people miss a detail or two. My bad.

The fact is that it is time for both the Saints and Brooks to move on. Brooks has had countless opportunities to get this team over the hump since he became the actual starter in 2002, and the team has consistently regressed. Come on, do you really want another year of that? We've seen what Brooks can do. I have nothing personal against the guy, but it is time to move on.

Hey Fat, are you an abused wife? Because your arguments are mirrored at the battered women's shelter every day. "If only he had that new car he wouldn't burn me with his cigarettes...". Babe, AB's going to burn you whether he's got a new car or not. Break the cycle and toss that jerk in the can.

You know I'm just messing with you, right Fat?

Xan you are heartless and cruel. I'm calling my counselor right now. Seriously though... I am sorry if I am one of the few people in here that feel that with the availability in the FA market this year that we should just go out and get Leinart becuase we are unhappy that AB doesn't have a serious face when he does something wrong, or that he does terrible because defenses are smart enough to know that when your star RB is down and out (thats twice now) that your defensive scheme will revolve around the passing game because the world knows that 9 times out of 10 when the Saints do not have Deuce they can't run, or that we have had an O-Line that....well....you get the idea (false starts, countless holds, DRIVE KILLERS), or that our recievers just happened to lead the league in dropped passes. Hell...if you can put on any kind of smile on your face when dealing with those conditions....you deserve a medal.

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Decision on Brooks Coming So
 

... I hear you, bro...but then again, aren't you going to miss my clever analogies??? :broccoli:

Well I don't know about that...
I've watched those same Saints games and Brooks would either throw the ball too soon(not dropping far enough in the pocket)or drop back too far and ROLLRIGHT INTO THE COVERAGE..........he sucks....period.

The only decision on Brooks we need to make is who to give his old locker to.

Matt Leinart or A.J. Hawk?

Wow. I haven't seen anyone make this many excuses for Brooks since Billy, and blackonblack/winwin. And that one guy The Gambler. Can't make a positive post for AB WITHOUT blaming everyone else? That's why he needs to go. HE has NO positives of his own, unless you throw the rest of the team under the bus.

Are you telling me that these reasons are not legit whodi? Would you be able to succeed in this league with those conditions? I'm not saying none of it is Brooks' fault...but c'mon....he sure as hell had a lot of help in his demise.

Um, yes I am. SIX YEARS!!! I am sorry, but no way in hell you can say Brooks has had these issues for 6 years. Last year Matt Hasselbeck's Seahawks, wait for the past few years, led the league in drops, and he STILL is a pro bowl QB that completes a high % of passes. Bulger gets KILLED in St. Louis behind his line, yet he still is among league leaders in passer rating. Hell, even David Carr, the most sacked QB in the league since he was drafted, has had seasons of over 60% completing his passes. None of those EXCUSES are flying. EVERY team has problems, you are stille xpected to go out and do your job. AB doesn't and hasn't.

Also, we ran the ball better than Carolina last year. Their star RB Stephen Davis was hurt. Did that stop Delhomme from doing great, with only one receiver? No excuse. We also ran much better than NE, who had dillon hurt a lot. And we weren't too far behind Indy and Tampa Bay, who had Chris freaking Simms QBing. No excuse. Like I said, if you have to blame EVERYONE else to defend ONE player, that player isn't worth it.

... I smell goat...

You are absolutely right...he did not have those conditions for six years... how quickly we forget how well he did do when he didn't have those conditions.

Did well? When? Dude, you're full of it.

Whodi.....I am convinced...you are just a straight up HATER. His first 2-3 years here were pretty good man. Look I want to be clear about something. I am defending Brooks only on the premise that he, during the early part of his tenure here, did a good job for us. He was more accurate, more responsible, and the team was also in better shape. As time went on we lost key players and coaching obviously became a joke. One year we ranked 31 out of 32 in the league in yards alloed by the defense, next we lead the league in FALSE STARTS, almost 2 years in a row we lead the league in turnovers( I am aware that Broooks was partially responsible for that part), when things were good.....Brooks was more competent but theam was also much more cohesive. You can't sit there and say that he sucked for six years. Thats just crap and nothing but AB bashing. Now....I am also not against him leaving......especially with the money he is about to cost us. What I am saying is I would like to see one of two things happen:
1. Coach Payton restructures his contract and provides Brooks an offense that he can excel in while we stack up our defense. (Which I feel he can do...he has the tools, maybe good coaching can help him in other areas.) Call me an optimist...I'm game.
2. We trade Brooks save up the cash and stack up our D in the draft while we find a decent FA QB.

You say that a pro QB can't turn his career around after so many years....Payton did it with Bledsoe...why not Brooks? But if not so be it......but I just feel that signing millions to an unproven rookie when we have the opportunity to really beef up this team through draft and FA would be a mistake.

Like I said, full of it.

Um, cause Bledsoe was one of the most prolific passers EVER with NE, and even took his team to a SUPERBOWL. And he wasn't bad with Buffalo, until they got rid of Price and his O-line went to swiss cheese, coupled with the fact he is a statue. THAT'S why not Brooks.

FALSE. a 76.4 rating and an 80 rating while barely completing 55% of your passes IS NOT PRETTY GOOD, unless mediocrity is a goal to strive for.

What a load. Brooks has NEVER EVER been described as anyone rational as ACCURATE, or responsible. This is how I know you are full of it. Even guys who jock him don't call him accurate. This may be the first time I have EVER heard that term used to describe Aaron Brooks? And responsible? This has to be a joke.

Yup, we are the only NFL team that loses players. Excuse.
Excuse.

Excuse, but got a link?

The guy who committs the MOST turnovers on the team is PARTIALLY responsible? Do you even read what you're typing? 2003, he led the league in lost fumbles(half when he was untouched) 2004 he led the league in red zone turnovers. Last year he was just pathetic, and he is PARTIALLY responsible? Wow.

BS.

Hater. Period! ;0)

I don't know. Let's put Brooks on another team and find out.

I don't disagree with ya mjf...if its a new start he needs then its all good. But I can't deal when people blame our failures on one guy. Its a completely unrealistic view. If thats the case then I am going to start walking around town here in Miami and claim that Dan Marino was pathetic and he did not win one because it was all his fault. As good as Marino was, there was a time when the Dolphins lineup looked and played a lot like the Saints lineup does now....we went 6-10, 8-8..so on and so on. DAN MARINO....6 - 10 and this was during his prime too. That Dolphins team had no running back and a terrible defense. If Dan Marino could not succeed with that kind of environment what the hell makes anyone think that AB should have?

That's a terrible analogy. Not even close to the same thing. Marino put up phenominal numbers. Brooks has no right to be mentioned in the same post as Marino. Actually, a better one would be to blame whoever was the RB's for the reason that Miami never won it all. Here are some of Marinos records stats:

Records:
Most Attempts, Career: 8,358
Most Completions, Career: 4,967
Most Yards Passing, Career: 61,361
Most Touchdown Passes, Career: 420
Most Passing Yards, Season: 5,084 in 1984
Most Games, 400 or more Yards Passing, Career: 13
Most Games, 400 or more Yards Passing, Season: 4 in 1984
Most Games, 300 or more Yards Passing, Career: 60
Most Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes, Career: 21
Most Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes, Season: 6 in 1984
Most Consecutive Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes: 4 in 1984
Lowest Percentage, Passes Intercepted, Rookie Season: 2.03 in 1983 (296-6)
Most Seasons Leading League, Attempts: 5 (1984, 1986, 1988, 1992, 1997)
Most Seasons Leading League, Completions: 6 (1984-86, 1988, 1992, 1997)
Most Seasons, 40 or more Touchdown Passes: 2 (1984, 1986)
Most Seasons, 20 or more Touchdown Passes: 13 (1983-92, 1994-95, 1998)
Most Consecutive Seasons, 20 or more Touchdown Passes: 10 (1983-92)
100 TD Passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: 44 (9/7/86 at San Diego)
200 TD passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: 89 (9/17/89 at New England)
300 TD passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: 157 (9/4/94 vs. New England)
Most Seasons Leading League, Yards Gained: 5 (1984-86, 1988, 1992) with Sonny Jurgensen (Philadelphia, 1961-62; Washington, 1966-67, 1969)
Most Consecutive Seasons Leading League, Completions: 3 (1984-86) with George Blanda (Houston, 1963-65)
Most Consecutive Games, 400 or more Yards Passing: 2 (1984) with Dan Fouts (San Diego, 1982) and Phil Simms (N.Y. Giants, 1985)
Most Seasons, 4000 or more Yards Passing: (1984-86, 1988, 1992, 1994) with Peyton Manning (Indianapolis, 1999-2004)

Other Stats:
Named NFL Most Valuable Player (1984)
Played 242 games, starting 240 of them
Career completion percentage of 59.4%
Career passing efficiency rating is 86.4
First QB in NFL history to have six 4,000-yard seasons (1984-86, 1988, 1992, 1994)
Led 37 fourth-quarter comeback victories, second only to John Elway.
Holds Dolphins team record for most seasons played, 17.
Had 116 wins under Don Shula – the most by a head coach - quarterback combination in NFL history.
Won the AFC Offensive Player of the Week honor 18 times in the regular season (and 20 times overall, including playoffs).
Started 240 Regular Season Games and Held a 147-93 record as a starter ( Second to John Elway's NFL Best 148-82-1 Regular Season Record )
Played in 18 Playoff Games and Held a 8-10 Record in the Playoffs
One of only six quarterbacks in NFL history that have achieved two consecutive (back-to-back) 30-touchdown passing seasons at least one time in their careers (the others are Steve Bartkowski, Brett Favre, Dan Fouts, Jeff Garcia, and Y. A. Tittle).
Passed for 4,510 yards over career in playoff games
Threw at least one touchdown pass in 16 of his 18 playoff contests, throwing a TD pass in his first 13 postseason contests.

You KNOW a guy is off his rocker when he tries to compare Brooks to hall of famers. Billy used to try and compare Brooks to John Elway. This is just pathetic. Jeebs, no disrespect, but you just dropped to the bottom of the list of people who's opinions I would argue with over QBs. You won't hear another peep from me to you on any situation involving any QB. You're gone man.

LOL.....you guys trip me out. I will never completely compare Marino's career to Brooks. But look carefully between the years '86 - '90. The Dolphins team was hapless. No Defense like the saints and no RB like the Saints. The result? 4 years of complete mediocrity. We had records of like 6-10 and 8-8 all those years. The team was doing terribly and along with it marino's performance those years were also affected. I'm saying that Brooks' predicament with the Saints now is very similar to Marino's during those years. Even the great MARINO could not get it done because the rest of the team around him was also falling apart. I can't be any clearer. Stop thinking that I am comparing Brooks to Marino...I am saying that when a team is in bad condition even the greatest of QB's CAN'T GET IT DONE.

.. I smell goat...

Keep sniffin...its very close to your keyboard. ;0)

OK, OK. Deep breath. There are so many things wrong with your post, I don't know where to start. I guess I'll begin with "I'm saying that Brooks' predicament with the Saints now is very similar to Marino's during those years". Now, tell me again how that is anything BUT comparing Brooks and Marino. Second, Marino may have had a "bad" year or two, but he had many more good years to out-weigh the bad. Brooks can only point to one year, and he wasn't even the starter for the entire of that year. And it was 5 YEARS ago. Third, by referring to '86, you mean the year he threw 44 TD's? He led the NFL in TD's that year and placed 2nd in '87 & '88. Forth, he was in the top 3 in passing yards and completions in 4 out of those 5 years and the other year ('90) he was 4th in both catagories. Fifth, they were 12-4 in '90. Sixth, in that 5 year span '86-'90, he threw 143 TD's. And Seventh, I think I'm beginning to smell goat also.

The question still remains mjf....with all those stats....what did he achieve? Losing records. The bottom line here is that all of this is still not one man's fault.

One more thing....I am not and never will compare Marino's complete career to Brooks. Im just saying that when a team is doin bad....even the best players become affected. So imagine how bad someone a little more average like Brooks is gonna do?

No, the bottom line is, if Brooks had put up the numbers that Marino achieved and the team had still failed, then you might have a leg to stand on. But as it is, you're grabbing at straws and making senseless statements.

You are entitled to your opinion mjf. As I see it many factors affected Brooks. As you see it Brooks is the be all end all problem for the Saints. We'll see how this unfolds.

Good point.

| 1987 mia | 12 | 263 444 59.2 3245 7.3 26 13
| 1988 mia | 16 | 354 606 58.4 4434 7.3 28 23 |
| 1989 mia | 16 | 308 550 56.0 3997 7.3 24 22 |

mjf...here are Marino's stats during those years. Now lets look at offensive scheme. Brooks will never ever throw this much because Haslett was over zealous about our running game. Between 88-89 he threw practically as many picks as he did TD's. You gonna tell me he was not affected? I won't talk about 87 cause of the strike. Now mjf...I singled out this portion of his career because I remember those teams were frutrating to watch.(Like the Saints these last 3 years) You gonna call those numbers successful? Cause if you are then Brooks did great! I remember '86 also. He had a great year. Problem was the defense was like swiss cheese.

2002 New Orleans Saints 16 16 528 283 53.6 3572 6.77 64 27 15
2003 New Orleans Saints 16 16 518 306 59.1 3546 6.85 76 24 8
2004 New Orleans Saints 16 16 542 309 57.0 3810 7.03 57 21 16

These are Brooks last 3 years. WOW mjf...the success rate between Brooks and MArino when they had crappy teams is astounding isn't it?

Oh and I won't discuss 2005. I don't think anyone should.

How convenient. :roll:

Okay, first you convienently left out '05 the most recent and worst year of Brooks' career, which helps to prove his regression and your bias. That year Brooks threw 17 INTs in just 13 games, and only 13 TD's. You also left off Brooks' 58 career fumbles. And as far as stats, in Brooks' case that makes a total of 4 out of six years. In Marino's, it is only 3 out of 17 years. See that is the biggest difference, Marino has the GREAT years to show his proven ability, and Brooks does NOT. You can not win this argument, so just give up.

mjf, remember that great sig you had about certain people being impermeable to reason and logic..................................................

Yeah, I know. All disagreements aside, ya'll have a great weekend. I'm out of here.

Give up?!? HA! Never. LOL. As far as proven ability? Brooks has the only playoff win and the record for most touchdown passes by a Saint. I think he did it in half or almost half the time that Manning did it. But I would definitely have to defend Manning on the point of my whole arguement which is:...bad teams will always affect QB's performances. Even the best of them.
You really wanna bring up '05? Thats your call. Personally I refuse to discuss '05. Lets face it the Saints were definitely not in any kind of mindset to play good football. The fact that they went out there each week and tried though makes me love them even more.

One last thing...go look at Marino's stats. I love Marino to death but the reality is... if you look at every season Marino played a full 16 game schedule...take away '84, '86, and '94 you'll see that his numbers really weren't that much better than Brooks. In fact, the were almost the same minus attempts and yardage.(Obviously Haslett depended on the run game a whole lot more than Shula did.)

Well, I'm out. Whether you hate me or not...its all good mjf. i'm always down for a good discussion. You guys have a great weekend. I may stop in but for the most part I'll be back on Monday. Peace to all and Go Saints Go!

... it sure smells like goat now!!!!