A Big Day!

stockman311 · 03-08-2006, 10:42 AM

This may be one of the most important days in Saints and NFL history. If the owners can agree on a deal that will share more revenue from the big market teams and thus extend the CBA then the Saints have a very real shot at winning a Superbowl sometime in our lifetime. If on the other hand no deal is reached small market teams can just forget about ever winning a Superbowl and we will go back to the days of Steelers, Cowboys, Redskins, Patriots, and Eagles dynasties.
I for one think that a deal will get done by the 8 pm deadline. Either way this will be remembered as a day that made history in professional sports in America.

FatiusJeebs · 03-08-2006, 11:11 AM

Well then.....THEY BETTER MAKE A DEAL!!!!

xan · 03-08-2006, 12:08 PM

I say screw the Player's proposal and lock'em out. A salary cap is necessary and will continue to make the NFL a premier sports attraction. What's not needed is salary based inflation which forces ticket prices and other related prices through the roof. The players make far more money than what they're worth. And besides, when you're making $38 million do you really need a union (or even $250K)?

I can see mine workers and long shoremen and garment workers needing a union to protect against child labor, unsafe working conditions and benefits for employer fault injuries. But does this overpaid, pampered, whining, greedy, lazy and selfish group need to be addressed as a the only factor for labor relations in football? Break the union. Or have several unions. Monopolies are most often bad. Have a group of players form a different union and negotiate with that one. Someone's going to cave when there's competition.

Everyone thinks that prices can rise indefinitely, and there's no competition for viewership. Soccer, basketball, baseball, hockey, college sports, olympic sports all vie for viewership and TV watching has already hit its saturation point. Make this a 6 team league with no revenue sharing and the NFL will crash regardless of a CBA or not. Owners' are certainly greedy, but many don't make much money and have lots of debt to service. The only way the league can continue to be successful is for the owners to be wealthier than the players. Otherwise the individual franchises and ultimately the league will wither under the searing greed of the transient player.

stockman311 · 03-08-2006, 12:25 PM

Let's get one thing straight. NFL players are overpaid ninnies like all professional atheletes, but as far as professional sports go they have the rawest deal in prosports. NBA guys and MLB and even NHL guys get guaranteed contracts and make tons more than NFL players, and the NFL brings in more revenue per year than those three sports combined. Also, NFL careers average far shorter than any other sport due to the ridiculous punishment these althletes subject themselves to for our entertainment. So I don't think it is unfair if the players take a stand against the likes of Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder and ask for a fairer deal every 6 years. Also, the NFL is a $6 BILLION dollar business and is expected to go to a $10 BILLION business by 2010. With revenues like labor costs should go up at the same rate.

spkb25 · 03-08-2006, 12:31 PM

stockman not to be a jerk but what eagles dynasty is there in the history of the nfl. i must have missed that one. also what patriots dynasty was there. i mean i know of the current one under the current cba but what other one was there

FatiusJeebs · 03-08-2006, 01:18 PM

Aww c'mon spkb... the man is just mentioning teams that have had a string of years with sucess. The Eagles minus last year have done well in the playoffs the last 3 years I think, the Patriots...obvious.

This topic upsets me. I always kind of admired the NFL business model. Now, once again, the players aren't happy and this time Tagliabue has pinned the owners into a corner. Tell you the truth....even though the quality of football would drop I would really just like to see people who WANT TO PLAY FOOTBALL more than anything else. I, personally, did not mind watching the replacement players back in '87. Why? These guys did not care about salary and went out there and played for the love of the game. I get seriously irked when this kmind of crap happens.

stockman311 · 03-08-2006, 01:51 PM

How many times did the Patriots make it to the Superbowl before the CBA? Twice
Eagles? Twice
Saints? Zero before or after
Let me rephrase my statement. If this deal isn't worked out we will see the dynasties of teams like the Cowboys, Redskins, and Steelers of the past and teams in big markets aka Patriots, Eagles, and Houston will have a decided advantage on becoming the next dynasty. Teams like the Saints, Jags, Colts, and Bengals can hang it up. You are talking about big market teams having to pay on 10% of their revenues on labor costs as opposed to smaller market teams having to pay 70% of their revenues on labor costs. We just would not be able to sign free agents and we would lose all of our good draft picks after 4 years with us. It's that simple.

WhoDatQB · 03-08-2006, 04:28 PM

stockman311,
I agree on many points, however. Show me where MLB brings in less money overall than the NFL. There are 100+ games per team in MLB. I know all do not sell out, and the MLB TV contract is lower than the NFL, but if you look at total revenue across the board MLB has to beat the NFL, just based on the number of games alone.

As far as guaranteed contracts go....... If the NFL guaranteed contracts they would be in trouble, as you stated the NFL has more career and season-ending injuries than any other league. If those contracts were guaranteed the player that has a 50 million contract over 6 or 7 years and is in his first year and has a season ending injury would still be due his money! That would destroy the salary cap for that team.

I agree almost all pro athletes are whining spoiled little children, but completely guaranteeing a NFL contract would be suicide. Maybe a portion guaranteed would work, completely guaranteed is crazy, IMHO.

spkb25 · 03-08-2006, 06:02 PM

stockman the eagles made the superbowl one time in their history before the one last year. they made it in like 80 or 81. that was their only time in the superbowl before last year. i don't think that quite makes a dynasty. i think the 49ers were a dynasty. and if you include the patriots having made it and loss twice before the current cba then you would have to include buffalo. they made it 4 straight years. you would have to include denver also and that is before they even won a super bowl. to be honest there are many teams under what you define a dynasty that aren't on your list that would for sure make it before philly. you are right in the sense that what we will have is the same thing from back in the day where you have the giants, dalls, washington -etc. winning all the time. i think that the players and the owners better find a way to get this done because it doesn't look good. i think they will both be hurt

xan · 03-08-2006, 07:05 PM

The nature of the contracts in each sport mirror the specific risks associated with those sports. The "guarrantee" portion of contracts in the NFL are signing bonuses and other (roster, etc) bonuses that are paid regardless of performance. They are amortized just like those contracts which are totally guarranteed. Players signing a 2 year $10 million contract with $5 million upfront bonus and plays for only a year gets 7.5 $million. Boo freaking Hoo.

If I get a brain cramp at work, I'm fired and I've got no signing bonus or multimillion dollar salary to fall back on. Where's my sympathy Stock? It's a cold cruel world out there for everyone except professional athletes on any kind of contract.

03-08-2006, 10:42 AM	#1
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	A Big Day! This may be one of the most important days in Saints and NFL history. If the owners can agree on a deal that will share more revenue from the big market teams and thus extend the CBA then the Saints have a very real shot at winning a Superbowl sometime in our lifetime. If on the other hand no deal is reached small market teams can just forget about ever winning a Superbowl and we will go back to the days of Steelers, Cowboys, Redskins, Patriots, and Eagles dynasties. I for one think that a deal will get done by the 8 pm deadline. Either way this will be remembered as a day that made history in professional sports in America.

03-08-2006, 11:11 AM	#2
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	RE: A Big Day! Well then.....THEY BETTER MAKE A DEAL!!!!
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973

03-08-2006, 01:18 PM	#6
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	Aww c'mon spkb... the man is just mentioning teams that have had a string of years with sucess. The Eagles minus last year have done well in the playoffs the last 3 years I think, the Patriots...obvious. This topic upsets me. I always kind of admired the NFL business model. Now, once again, the players aren't happy and this time Tagliabue has pinned the owners into a corner. Tell you the truth....even though the quality of football would drop I would really just like to see people who WANT TO PLAY FOOTBALL more than anything else. I, personally, did not mind watching the replacement players back in '87. Why? These guys did not care about salary and went out there and played for the love of the game. I get seriously irked when this kmind of crap happens.
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	BINGO!!

03-08-2006, 04:28 PM	#8
WhoDatQB Boondock Saint Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: F***ing Atlanta Posts: 322	A Big Day! stockman311, I agree on many points, however. Show me where MLB brings in less money overall than the NFL. There are 100+ games per team in MLB. I know all do not sell out, and the MLB TV contract is lower than the NFL, but if you look at total revenue across the board MLB has to beat the NFL, just based on the number of games alone. As far as guaranteed contracts go....... If the NFL guaranteed contracts they would be in trouble, as you stated the NFL has more career and season-ending injuries than any other league. If those contracts were guaranteed the player that has a 50 million contract over 6 or 7 years and is in his first year and has a season ending injury would still be due his money! That would destroy the salary cap for that team. I agree almost all pro athletes are whining spoiled little children, but completely guaranteeing a NFL contract would be suicide. Maybe a portion guaranteed would work, completely guaranteed is crazy, IMHO.

03-08-2006, 06:02 PM	#9
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	RE: A Big Day! stockman the eagles made the superbowl one time in their history before the one last year. they made it in like 80 or 81. that was their only time in the superbowl before last year. i don't think that quite makes a dynasty. i think the 49ers were a dynasty. and if you include the patriots having made it and loss twice before the current cba then you would have to include buffalo. they made it 4 straight years. you would have to include denver also and that is before they even won a super bowl. to be honest there are many teams under what you define a dynasty that aren't on your list that would for sure make it before philly. you are right in the sense that what we will have is the same thing from back in the day where you have the giants, dalls, washington -etc. winning all the time. i think that the players and the owners better find a way to get this done because it doesn't look good. i think they will both be hurt
	Your team stinks

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03-08-2006, 12:08 PM	#3
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	I say screw the Player's proposal and lock'em out. A salary cap is necessary and will continue to make the NFL a premier sports attraction. What's not needed is salary based inflation which forces ticket prices and other related prices through the roof. The players make far more money than what they're worth. And besides, when you're making $38 million do you really need a union (or even $250K)? I can see mine workers and long shoremen and garment workers needing a union to protect against child labor, unsafe working conditions and benefits for employer fault injuries. But does this overpaid, pampered, whining, greedy, lazy and selfish group need to be addressed as a the only factor for labor relations in football? Break the union. Or have several unions. Monopolies are most often bad. Have a group of players form a different union and negotiate with that one. Someone's going to cave when there's competition. Everyone thinks that prices can rise indefinitely, and there's no competition for viewership. Soccer, basketball, baseball, hockey, college sports, olympic sports all vie for viewership and TV watching has already hit its saturation point. Make this a 6 team league with no revenue sharing and the NFL will crash regardless of a CBA or not. Owners' are certainly greedy, but many don't make much money and have lots of debt to service. The only way the league can continue to be successful is for the owners to be wealthier than the players. Otherwise the individual franchises and ultimately the league will wither under the searing greed of the transient player.

03-08-2006, 12:25 PM	#4
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Let's get one thing straight. NFL players are overpaid ninnies like all professional atheletes, but as far as professional sports go they have the rawest deal in prosports. NBA guys and MLB and even NHL guys get guaranteed contracts and make tons more than NFL players, and the NFL brings in more revenue per year than those three sports combined. Also, NFL careers average far shorter than any other sport due to the ridiculous punishment these althletes subject themselves to for our entertainment. So I don't think it is unfair if the players take a stand against the likes of Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder and ask for a fairer deal every 6 years. Also, the NFL is a $6 BILLION dollar business and is expected to go to a $10 BILLION business by 2010. With revenues like labor costs should go up at the same rate.

03-08-2006, 12:31 PM	#5
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	stockman not to be a jerk but what eagles dynasty is there in the history of the nfl. i must have missed that one. also what patriots dynasty was there. i mean i know of the current one under the current cba but what other one was there

03-08-2006, 01:51 PM	#7
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	How many times did the Patriots make it to the Superbowl before the CBA? Twice Eagles? Twice Saints? Zero before or after Let me rephrase my statement. If this deal isn't worked out we will see the dynasties of teams like the Cowboys, Redskins, and Steelers of the past and teams in big markets aka Patriots, Eagles, and Houston will have a decided advantage on becoming the next dynasty. Teams like the Saints, Jags, Colts, and Bengals can hang it up. You are talking about big market teams having to pay on 10% of their revenues on labor costs as opposed to smaller market teams having to pay 70% of their revenues on labor costs. We just would not be able to sign free agents and we would lose all of our good draft picks after 4 years with us. It's that simple.

03-08-2006, 07:05 PM	#10
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	RE: A Big Day! The nature of the contracts in each sport mirror the specific risks associated with those sports. The "guarrantee" portion of contracts in the NFL are signing bonuses and other (roster, etc) bonuses that are paid regardless of performance. They are amortized just like those contracts which are totally guarranteed. Players signing a 2 year $10 million contract with $5 million upfront bonus and plays for only a year gets 7.5 $million. Boo freaking Hoo. If I get a brain cramp at work, I'm fired and I've got no signing bonus or multimillion dollar salary to fall back on. Where's my sympathy Stock? It's a cold cruel world out there for everyone except professional athletes on any kind of contract.