Bye bye Ashworth

spkb25 · 03-24-2006, 10:17 AM

bj i have said that since day one. you look at all the guys that have been able to run behind that kc line. if you can stop the run and if you can run the ball always seems like a good formula for winning. i know there are other ingredients ladies but it all seems to start with that basic one. i guess you can run the ball if you are pushing around that line and you can stop it if you aren't being pushed around.

saintswhodi · 03-24-2006, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by BJSim

I believe the game is won in the trenches, O & D lines. I would love for us to pick up D'Brick and Mangold in the draft. A nice solid O-line to push around the opposition. Hawk would be a nice pickup if Ferguson is gone already (if we trade down).

So, and I am just asking, which one do we let go somewhere else in 4-5 years, Brown or D'Brick? Cause you KNOW it's gonna happen. Brick is gonna be a great player, but i'd just as soon get a stud defensive player to help out will smith on D. Hawk or Ngata. I don't think we'd let either of them leave at any point. But TWO high priced tackles? I dunno...................

FatiusJeebs · 03-24-2006, 11:34 AM

Look what it used to do for Dallas Whodi. Call me crazy but I'm one of those people who feels that Emmit Smith is NOT all that. But he has the numbers. Minus the awesome Saints-Cowboys game a few years back when he held him to a miserable 28 yds....I rarely ever say Emmit getting his first hit in the backfield or even near the line. He always had a good sprint going into the line cause no one would ever touch him. The passing game would also greatlt benefit. More time to throw usually equals adequate time to make smart decision. I think 2 high priced tackles might not be a bad idea.

saintswhodi · 03-24-2006, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by FatiusJeebs

Look what it used to do for Dallas Whodi. Call me crazy but I'm one of those people who feels that Emmit Smith is NOT all that. But he has the numbers. Minus the awesome Saints-Cowboys game a few years back when he held him to a miserable 28 yds....I rarely ever say Emmit getting his first hit in the backfield or even near the line. He always had a good sprint going into the line cause no one would ever touch him. The passing game would also greatlt benefit. More time to throw usually equals adequate time to make smart decision. I think 2 high priced tackles might not be a bad idea.

Dallas had more than just two high priced tackles on their line, and they also started their dynasty before the salary cap ever came into play. Little different game now. NOONE can assemble a line like Dallas had any more, and sutain it longer than maybe a year. So yeah, it would be great two have two huge high priced tackles, and nothing in the middle. But that's not for me. I believe in the NFL now more than ever, the SCHEME dictates how good an O-line is. Look at Denver. Consistently the best O-line in football, not all pro bowlers. Look at NE. They won 3 Superbowls with what noone would call a great line. Look at the Steelers. Look at the Colts. You don't need the biggest baddest mofos across the board on the line to have a good offense. You just need a scheme that plays to the players' you have strengths more than their weaknesses. We didn't have that the whole time Haslett was here, nor did we have a QB with a high football IQ. Plain and simple, you can't pay a lot for two tackles in this league. I don't think there is one team out there that has a high priced left AND right tackle. So i'll ask again, which one do we let walk in 4-5 years?

LKelley67 · 03-24-2006, 12:00 PM

interesting thought whodi. if we now have a regime that can effectively manage the cap and roster needs... IF that is so, then you can always deal with an embarassment of riches. the opposite of the past. similar situation this time last year with three starting DEs. i was (and think you were also) screaming to take a second round pick for howard. sure he might have left and had a probowl year. but in any case it was not practical to invest so much cap space into 3 players for two positions. SD with brees and rivers- fans hated to see brees go. but what was even more anquishing was that he walked away for nothing. proactive management would have dealt him or rivers before last season. here again, bentley could have been signed longterm for a helluva lot less than the cleveland contract before last season. if it couldn't have happened he should have been dealt then.

i'm basking in the glow of something assertive and positive at all happening in the off season here. there are enough holes and worry to be had about now coming off a 3-13 year, muchless worry about what problems we'll be faced with in 2010. payton and company have a clean slate with me. so far so good and i will give them the benefit of the doubt in the future until more decisions unfold and a track record is established. You would get some incredible offers if the Ogdens or Paces were out on the market to be had. Two All-Pro tackles would be quite unique and give you some incredible bargaining power.

i'm not a proponent that d'brick is a must. just that if they do i would still be happy. we definitely need an upgrade there so a FA out of nowhere or a pick towards that in the 1st or 2nd rd is needed IMO

...off the soapbox now, excuse me.

FatiusJeebs · 03-24-2006, 12:01 PM

Hmmm...good point. Especially Denver. 1,000 yd rushers every year. Hell I could suit up for them and probably get 1,000. I am still concerned over pass protection. You don't need the best but we can't AND I MEAN CAN"T have what we had last year. Say whatever about Brooks but the honest truth is....that man did way too much running around last year. You could say in part that was Brooks' fault for being maybe to hesitant but still...that may be a direct result of consistenly lousy pass protection. I just want Brees to be protected. VERY protected.

03-24-2006, 11:04 AM	#12
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by BJSim I believe the game is won in the trenches, O & D lines. I would love for us to pick up D'Brick and Mangold in the draft. A nice solid O-line to push around the opposition. Hawk would be a nice pickup if Ferguson is gone already (if we trade down). So, and I am just asking, which one do we let go somewhere else in 4-5 years, Brown or D'Brick? Cause you KNOW it's gonna happen. Brick is gonna be a great player, but i'd just as soon get a stud defensive player to help out will smith on D. Hawk or Ngata. I don't think we'd let either of them leave at any point. But TWO high priced tackles? I dunno...................

03-24-2006, 11:34 AM	#13
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	Look what it used to do for Dallas Whodi. Call me crazy but I'm one of those people who feels that Emmit Smith is NOT all that. But he has the numbers. Minus the awesome Saints-Cowboys game a few years back when he held him to a miserable 28 yds....I rarely ever say Emmit getting his first hit in the backfield or even near the line. He always had a good sprint going into the line cause no one would ever touch him. The passing game would also greatlt benefit. More time to throw usually equals adequate time to make smart decision. I think 2 high priced tackles might not be a bad idea.
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	BINGO!!

03-24-2006, 11:54 AM	#14
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by FatiusJeebs Look what it used to do for Dallas Whodi. Call me crazy but I'm one of those people who feels that Emmit Smith is NOT all that. But he has the numbers. Minus the awesome Saints-Cowboys game a few years back when he held him to a miserable 28 yds....I rarely ever say Emmit getting his first hit in the backfield or even near the line. He always had a good sprint going into the line cause no one would ever touch him. The passing game would also greatlt benefit. More time to throw usually equals adequate time to make smart decision. I think 2 high priced tackles might not be a bad idea. Dallas had more than just two high priced tackles on their line, and they also started their dynasty before the salary cap ever came into play. Little different game now. NOONE can assemble a line like Dallas had any more, and sutain it longer than maybe a year. So yeah, it would be great two have two huge high priced tackles, and nothing in the middle. But that's not for me. I believe in the NFL now more than ever, the SCHEME dictates how good an O-line is. Look at Denver. Consistently the best O-line in football, not all pro bowlers. Look at NE. They won 3 Superbowls with what noone would call a great line. Look at the Steelers. Look at the Colts. You don't need the biggest baddest mofos across the board on the line to have a good offense. You just need a scheme that plays to the players' you have strengths more than their weaknesses. We didn't have that the whole time Haslett was here, nor did we have a QB with a high football IQ. Plain and simple, you can't pay a lot for two tackles in this league. I don't think there is one team out there that has a high priced left AND right tackle. So i'll ask again, which one do we let walk in 4-5 years?

03-24-2006, 12:01 PM	#16
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	Hmmm...good point. Especially Denver. 1,000 yd rushers every year. Hell I could suit up for them and probably get 1,000. I am still concerned over pass protection. You don't need the best but we can't AND I MEAN CAN"T have what we had last year. Say whatever about Brooks but the honest truth is....that man did way too much running around last year. You could say in part that was Brooks' fault for being maybe to hesitant but still...that may be a direct result of consistenly lousy pass protection. I just want Brees to be protected. VERY protected.
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973

03-24-2006, 10:17 AM	#11
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,101	bj i have said that since day one. you look at all the guys that have been able to run behind that kc line. if you can stop the run and if you can run the ball always seems like a good formula for winning. i know there are other ingredients ladies but it all seems to start with that basic one. i guess you can run the ball if you are pushing around that line and you can stop it if you aren't being pushed around.

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03-24-2006, 12:00 PM	#15
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	interesting thought whodi. if we now have a regime that can effectively manage the cap and roster needs... IF that is so, then you can always deal with an embarassment of riches. the opposite of the past. similar situation this time last year with three starting DEs. i was (and think you were also) screaming to take a second round pick for howard. sure he might have left and had a probowl year. but in any case it was not practical to invest so much cap space into 3 players for two positions. SD with brees and rivers- fans hated to see brees go. but what was even more anquishing was that he walked away for nothing. proactive management would have dealt him or rivers before last season. here again, bentley could have been signed longterm for a helluva lot less than the cleveland contract before last season. if it couldn't have happened he should have been dealt then. i'm basking in the glow of something assertive and positive at all happening in the off season here. there are enough holes and worry to be had about now coming off a 3-13 year, muchless worry about what problems we'll be faced with in 2010. payton and company have a clean slate with me. so far so good and i will give them the benefit of the doubt in the future until more decisions unfold and a track record is established. You would get some incredible offers if the Ogdens or Paces were out on the market to be had. Two All-Pro tackles would be quite unique and give you some incredible bargaining power. i'm not a proponent that d'brick is a must. just that if they do i would still be happy. we definitely need an upgrade there so a FA out of nowhere or a pick towards that in the 1st or 2nd rd is needed IMO ...off the soapbox now, excuse me.