james alder on trade.........
 

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From James Alder,
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Saints-Falcons Trade Indication of Draft Intentions?
On Thursday, the New Orleans Saints traded offensive tackle Wayne Gandy to the Atlanta Falcons for safety Bryan Scott and a conditional future draft pick. On the surface, the move seems to further cement the likelihood that the Saints will select Virginia tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson in the draft later this month, trade down, or maybe both. But that might not necessarily be the case.
They could move last year's first-round draft pick, Jamaal Brown, from the right side to the left, and plug in Jon Stinchcomb on the right side. Or they could look for an offensive tackle like Auburn's Marcus McNeil with their pick in the second round. Either way, the Saints have options.

There has been some speculation that they are targeting North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams, and there could be some truth to the rumor, but I'm skeptical. They already have talented players at both ends in Will Smith and Charles Grant. The team could just be sending out smoke signals in the hopes someone will trade up for either Williams, USC QB Matt Leinart, or Texas QB Vince Young. A trade with the Jets could mean picking up a late first-round pick and they would likely still end up with Ferguson on the board when they use the Jets' pick at No. 4.

And don't completely discount the possibility that the Saints could take Leinart at No. 2 despite having landed Drew Brees through free agency. Brees' contract includes a $12 million bonus due after the 2006 season, which means he could be looking for a new home for the 2007 season. So it all depends on how the front office views Brees. Is he a stop-gap/mentor or a long-term solution?

Either way, the Saints certainly continue to muck up the picture at the top of the draft.

Thursday April 6, 2006 | permalink | comments (0) | add to del.icio.us
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hahahaha. I moderate on James' forum, AND a few of those things he got from a convo I had about the trade on the forum, like maybe Stinch playing RT. I used to write for him back in the day, but it was too time consuming, so now I just moderate. Good stuff. This is the thread:

http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum....ab-profootball

James is a good guy, a real good guy actually, and isn't one of those writers who forms his own opinions ahead of time without considering all of the factors possible, and often asks for input from the forum. The site has fans from all 32 teams, mostly, so if ya ever wanna pop in, please do so. There's only 2 regular Saints fans on there right now, me being one. This post caught me way off guard though smitty you bloodhound. :lol:

actually i posted it because it sounded like everything members discussed when the trade took place.........are you sure he's not spying here? smitty :wink:

No way, that you can count on. Like I said, some of that stuff I mentioned in the thread we had about it over there. He usually asks fans opinions, then writes an article and links it to the discussion. As you can see, he didn't define one road the Saints could take, but laid out all the options.

:couch: i'll take your word for it.............smitty

Well, if you click the link to the thread I provided, you'll see what I am saying.

boy, when you can't recognize sarcasm...................... :roll:
been there, it is nice.............................
actually, i've never seen the saints play it like this........
i'd say they're giving payton the reins and loomis is in the background looking good.......
i don't doubt for a second that payton is looking to build his offense, but deep down he knows that the defense is the key, and there he is gonna have to rely on who he hired to come through. it was the opposite with haslett here...
i will say this, few people give loomis the credit behind the scene. but he is a dam good negotiator once they know who they are going after and who they want to unload....
if he stays there, we very well could have a respectable team.............smitty

john clayton says we still are getting Mario Williams............ mhmmmhmhmh

oh, and if loomis screws up the draft, i never said that.............smitty

looking at our depth chart and our FA moves, it appears that the new coaching staff has already put together their LB core. i think we should still draft hawk, but i think they will draft brick.

We have got to draft Brick, we we trade down, he is ours, even if we don't trade down I'd say its a safer bet drafting Brick. We have got to protect Brees and get blocking for Deuce or we are going to stink up the joint just as bad as last year. I think with new defense scheme and going D in the second round ONLY if Mangold isn't there...

I think that we have to draft Young. He'll be the only one able to escape the avalanche of defenders mowing down our o-line. Let someone else overpay for D'Brick, there are 5-6 high quality linemen, including 3 Trojans, that could be available for the 34th pick.

Now this is the kind of optimism that I like to hear.

I don't know if I'm more surprised that you think we should pick a QB or that you think it should be Young. If you think our QB will be dodging the D all day maybe we should've just kept Brooks....he was pretty adept at running for his life. A smart QB can either make quick checkdowns or throw the ball away, which negates having to run. Brooks didn't have those smarts, and Young doesn't either.

You spend enough high picks at O-line and it pays off. Remember our o-line in '00 with Roaf, Naeole, and Turley???? It's called building your team, not trying to find a quick fix. Young makes zero sense for us at #2.

Overpay for D'Brick? Geez I don't know what to tell you....he'll be paid what a top 5 pick should be paid. I don't see how that's overpaying. It's not free agency. There's a model that they follow for draft picks.

Jaamal Brown was a top pick and the 1st lineman selected last year, ahead of Alex Barron, two of the 4 linemen taken in the 1st round and of the 9 taken on the first day. Both were pretty ordinary, though better than average. Brown had his fair share of false starts, holds, missed assignments and didn't perform well as a road grader for the running game. In 2004, there were three linemen taken in the 1st round, including #2 pick Robert Gallery, who has not acquited himself well because he can't handle speed rush and has allowed many many many sacks in his two years. Jordan Gross seems to be the only 1st round pick in the last three drafts who've performed to hype, a paltry 1 for 9 ratio of impact.

There's always a risk with every player, but there seems to be a relative consensus that you should draft the higher skill players early and take your shots on o-linemen in the later rounds. Young men that size take quite a while to learn the fundamentals of the seriously high speed sumo wrestling that has become the trenches of an NFL game. I'm sure we all criticize Gandy for his shortcomings (there were MANY), but 13 years is an exceptionally long time to be in the NFL as a lineman, he had to play and grade out highly for most of his career to last that long and command that kind of salary this deep into his career; and a former #1 pick (15th by the Raiders). But there seems to be just as many failures of 1st round selections of linemen as there are quarterbacks. Turley was more harm than good (I did like his "protect at all cost attitude" on the field, but he wasn't reliable) at a 7 pick and was out of NO in 5 years and football in 6 (traded for Gandy, no less).

The Saints haven't had the opportunity to select a skill player this high in more years than I can remember, and there are several seemingly all world skill players to be had. Why waste such an opportunity on a lineman, AGAIN, when all of our "star" players are coming off of career threatening injuries and may never play to their previous levels?

I mis-typed when I said "traded for Gandy". Gandy was signed, considered to be an upgrade, though later in his career, then Turley was traded to the Rams for a 2nd round pick (either Henderson or C. Watson, I can't recall.)

Nice, but you failed to justify a move like picking YOuNG at #2. Whatever your reasoning for picking an o-lineman later, that doesn't necessarily make a case for Young. Hey as far as "star" power as you keep saying....I'm all for drafting Bush, but he won't be there. We have a QB so that's out. And no o-linemen...hmmmmm....you just made a case for MARIO WILLIAMS....or A.J. Hawk if we trade down.

Why "waste" a pick on a lineman??? Because all great teams' foundation is at the line. Look at the Seahawks and Steelers. You don't build a championship team off of a ho-hum line. And you don't get great players without drafting well. You draft star linemen just like you have to draft star skill position players. Everyone is hit or miss, not just o-linemen. You said that Jamaal Brown was the first lineman out of 9 taken on the first day. That just further emphasizes that you need to get a lineman earier rather than later since the quality drops off so dramatically as you imply. And give Brown a break. It was his first season. In his first game he shut down Julius Peppers. Did you forget about that already? I don't think you're giving him enough credit for playing with so much crap going on around him.

I'm just of the rationale that we've invested HEAViLY in our offense already(Deuce, Horn, Brees) and like it or not our first priority should be to protect these investments as best we can. We have to see what we have before we come to the conclusion that they "won't play to their previous levels".

In the draft we just don't need a QB anymore. There are no WRs or RBs outside of Bush that deserve to be taken in the top 5. So we have to either take D'Brick, Williams or Hawk.

Thank God you think that Brees' return to "pro bowl form" is a mortal lock. I'm still waiting on Brees' first real pass since the injury, Deuce's first cut in contact drills since his double ligament knee surgery and Horn's go route hammy/knee reaction before I conclude that we don't need star power. All three are either career threatening or talent diminishing injuries that will require PROOF and not faith that we don't need a backup plan. OK, so it may not be Young, who's mobile enough to deal with the onslaught of rush that will be coming. I'm actually hoping for Lienart. But the Saints have had no luck in drafting immediate impact linemen in the last 7 years. I'm for breaking away from the trend of drafting disappointing linemen.

The offense will go absolutely nowhere if Brees isn't able to return because the only FA's available couldn't get a spot on the Lighthouse for the Blind's JV team. If Deuce is significantly slowed, which 99% of all athletes who have this injury are, then 8 in the box D schemes will be all whoever's in the backfield will see.

Look at it from a business perspective. What will sell more jerseys, tickets and suites, Lienart or Ferguson? When Brees can't make it back, Deuce is ineffective and Horn can't get off the line, and all you got is a project o-lineman to sell to your fan base, the Saints will be in Los Angeles before your choice makes an impact in the NFL.

"No luck in drafting immediate impact linemen"?? Really?? You don't think Jammal Brown had an immediate impact??? Well ok that's on you.

While you think I'm being too optimistic, you seem to have taken the totally pessimistic side of things. You already said yourself that you think the line is substandard, so you seem to have the philosophy of "forget it, they won't get any better so let's just get offensive weapons instead'. You say "when" Brees can't make it back and "when" Deuce doesn't make it back according to you. Well we could get your Leinart, but what good will it be if he's getting wacked every other down from the on coming rush because we don't have linemen to protect him? How will he mitigate this any better then Brees, who's a seasoned NFL veteran??? A good line makes your offensive weapons better, not the other way around. Leinart could sell all the jerseys in the world, but if we don't have a solid foundation for him to build around(including a good line) fans will stop believing the hype, and then we'll still be on our way to L.A.