What about.....

saintsfan1313 · 04-14-2006, 12:19 AM

What about trading Charless Grant to Denver for their 1st first rd pick???? Im not in favor of gettin rid of Grant, but if we can ge Williams at #2 and then one of the better LB's with the #15 from them, like Ernie Sims or Bobby Carpenter or a CB like Jimmy Williams?????

xan · 04-14-2006, 12:25 AM

Why give up a proven top 10 player, which this team has precious few, for an unknown? That scenario only makes this team worse, not better.

saintsfan1313 · 04-14-2006, 12:29 AM

Then we should just trade all of our draft picks for proven veterans???? Lets just boycott the draft all together then....I think Williams isnt an unknown, yea, he hasnt done anything in the NFL yet, but hell neither has BUsh or Leinhart and everybody is all enamored with them 2. This scenario improves the DE posistion and improves the LB position, in just one round. Then get Mangold in the 2nd.....what other positions need immediate attention????

xan · 04-14-2006, 12:59 AM

It doesn't get us an offensive tackle, it doesn't get us a healthy quarterback (see the free loser, I mean, agent list to refresh), it doesn't ensure we get better, it just makes the process less certain. And yes, if we could get a few healthy top 10 players in key positions instead of draft choices, we should do it, because 1 - less risk as they know how to play without a learning curve, and 2 - economically these players would have had signing bonuses which the Saints wouldn't have to amortize.

Make sure you get rid of all the talented leaders so that there will be stability.

NEXTPROBOWLER · 04-18-2006, 01:22 PM

what about donte for a third round pick, take moss in the second round and a db in the third, deep db class this year

JimBone · 04-18-2006, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by xan

Why give up a proven top 10 player, which this team has precious few, for an unknown? That scenario only makes this team worse, not better.

If you consider a full time defensive end who is known for pass rushing a top 10 player after he records an astonishing 2.5 sacks, then our team is full of top 10 players.

saintswhodi · 04-18-2006, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by JimBone

Originally Posted by xan

Why give up a proven top 10 player, which this team has precious few, for an unknown? That scenario only makes this team worse, not better.

If you consider a full time defensive end who is known for pass rushing a top 10 player after he records an astonishing 2.5 sacks, then our team is full of top 10 players.

full time as in a 3 man rotation and playing DT sometimes in passing downs? Full time as getting the majority of the double teams? Full time as in over 20.5 sacks the two years prior and being one of the tea leaders in tackles? Or fullt ime as STILL the 7th rated DE in the league on Scouts Inc's list. A guy has a down year on a 3-13 team and all of a sudden he's garbage? Please.

JimBone · 04-18-2006, 01:58 PM

Where in my post did i say he was garbage. I lke Charles Grant, but face it, he is not a top 10 DE. Top 20, yeah I'll buy that. But if you want me to run off a list of 10 Defensive ends that are better than him, i can do it. But you cant honestly say that guys like Peppers, Simeon Rice, Strahan dont ever get double teamed. Thats part of his job...he is going to get double teamed and i would think that he should be able to manage more sacks to be a top 10 guy. Hell, he isnt even the best defensive end on our team.

saintswhodi · 04-18-2006, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by JimBone

Where in my post did i say he was garbage. I lke Charles Grant, but face it, he is not a top 10 DE. Top 20, yeah I'll buy that. But if you want me to run off a list of 10 Defensive ends that are better than him, i can do it. But you cant honestly say that guys like Peppers, Simeon Rice, Strahan dont ever get double teamed. Thats part of his job...he is going to get double teamed and i would think that he should be able to manage more sacks to be a top 10 guy. Hell, he isnt even the best defensive end on our team.

SCOUTS INC has him as number 7 in the league. Feel free to disagree with them, I am sure they have an e-mail address. Second, Peppers. Rice, and Strahan ALL play with defensive players around them that are far better than what Grant plays with. From last year, would you prefer our D-line or the Panthers, Bucs, or Giants? Our LBs or the Panthers, Bucs, or Giants? Our secondary or the Panthers, Bucs or Giants? Our defensive coaches(from last year) or the Panthers bucs or Giants? ALL of those players play at a greater advantage than Grant, and NONE of them were asked to play DT at any point in addition to that. Grant and Will Smith were the only two players on our D near the line of scrimmage ANY team had to worry about, and for the first 3/4 of the season, they focused on Grant. Give the guy a break.

JimBone · 04-18-2006, 02:59 PM

I most definitely disagree with them and i disagrree with you. I think that Charles Grants running mate was better than Rice's running mate (Spires) and on even keel with the other two (Umenyiora and Rucker). The thing is, those big three made everything easier for their running mates and STILL found the time to put up their numbers. Now, I know he was really good the two previous years, but what if the same old song and dance happens again this year? 3 sacks this year. Will you still point the finger at someone else? Will you still blame the supporting cast? Or could the supporting cast start to blame him? Was the Saints defense that much different last year than it was the year before? The SAME PLAYERS were on the field the majority of the time the last two years and his numbers dropped off significantly.

04-14-2006, 12:29 AM	#3
saintsfan1313 El Mero Mero Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Kingsville, Tx Posts: 669	RE: What about..... Then we should just trade all of our draft picks for proven veterans???? Lets just boycott the draft all together then....I think Williams isnt an unknown, yea, he hasnt done anything in the NFL yet, but hell neither has BUsh or Leinhart and everybody is all enamored with them 2. This scenario improves the DE posistion and improves the LB position, in just one round. Then get Mangold in the 2nd.....what other positions need immediate attention????

04-14-2006, 12:59 AM	#4
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	RE: What about..... It doesn't get us an offensive tackle, it doesn't get us a healthy quarterback (see the free loser, I mean, agent list to refresh), it doesn't ensure we get better, it just makes the process less certain. And yes, if we could get a few healthy top 10 players in key positions instead of draft choices, we should do it, because 1 - less risk as they know how to play without a learning curve, and 2 - economically these players would have had signing bonuses which the Saints wouldn't have to amortize. Make sure you get rid of all the talented leaders so that there will be stability.
	Calvin: "I wish I was a Tiger." Hobbes: "Common lament."

04-18-2006, 01:22 PM	#5
NEXTPROBOWLER 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 269	RE: What about..... what about donte for a third round pick, take moss in the second round and a db in the third, deep db class this year

04-18-2006, 01:25 PM	#6
JimBone 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Thibodaux, La Posts: 614	Re: RE: What about..... Originally Posted by xan Why give up a proven top 10 player, which this team has precious few, for an unknown? That scenario only makes this team worse, not better. If you consider a full time defensive end who is known for pass rushing a top 10 player after he records an astonishing 2.5 sacks, then our team is full of top 10 players.

04-18-2006, 01:30 PM	#7
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Re: RE: What about..... Originally Posted by JimBone Originally Posted by xan Why give up a proven top 10 player, which this team has precious few, for an unknown? That scenario only makes this team worse, not better. If you consider a full time defensive end who is known for pass rushing a top 10 player after he records an astonishing 2.5 sacks, then our team is full of top 10 players. full time as in a 3 man rotation and playing DT sometimes in passing downs? Full time as getting the majority of the double teams? Full time as in over 20.5 sacks the two years prior and being one of the tea leaders in tackles? Or fullt ime as STILL the 7th rated DE in the league on Scouts Inc's list. A guy has a down year on a 3-13 team and all of a sudden he's garbage? Please.

04-14-2006, 12:19 AM	#1
saintsfan1313 El Mero Mero Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Kingsville, Tx Posts: 669	What about..... What about trading Charless Grant to Denver for their 1st first rd pick???? Im not in favor of gettin rid of Grant, but if we can ge Williams at #2 and then one of the better LB's with the #15 from them, like Ernie Sims or Bobby Carpenter or a CB like Jimmy Williams?????

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04-14-2006, 12:25 AM	#2
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	RE: What about..... Why give up a proven top 10 player, which this team has precious few, for an unknown? That scenario only makes this team worse, not better.

04-18-2006, 01:58 PM	#8
JimBone 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Thibodaux, La Posts: 614	Where in my post did i say he was garbage. I lke Charles Grant, but face it, he is not a top 10 DE. Top 20, yeah I'll buy that. But if you want me to run off a list of 10 Defensive ends that are better than him, i can do it. But you cant honestly say that guys like Peppers, Simeon Rice, Strahan dont ever get double teamed. Thats part of his job...he is going to get double teamed and i would think that he should be able to manage more sacks to be a top 10 guy. Hell, he isnt even the best defensive end on our team.

04-18-2006, 02:12 PM	#9
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by JimBone Where in my post did i say he was garbage. I lke Charles Grant, but face it, he is not a top 10 DE. Top 20, yeah I'll buy that. But if you want me to run off a list of 10 Defensive ends that are better than him, i can do it. But you cant honestly say that guys like Peppers, Simeon Rice, Strahan dont ever get double teamed. Thats part of his job...he is going to get double teamed and i would think that he should be able to manage more sacks to be a top 10 guy. Hell, he isnt even the best defensive end on our team. SCOUTS INC has him as number 7 in the league. Feel free to disagree with them, I am sure they have an e-mail address. Second, Peppers. Rice, and Strahan ALL play with defensive players around them that are far better than what Grant plays with. From last year, would you prefer our D-line or the Panthers, Bucs, or Giants? Our LBs or the Panthers, Bucs, or Giants? Our secondary or the Panthers, Bucs or Giants? Our defensive coaches(from last year) or the Panthers bucs or Giants? ALL of those players play at a greater advantage than Grant, and NONE of them were asked to play DT at any point in addition to that. Grant and Will Smith were the only two players on our D near the line of scrimmage ANY team had to worry about, and for the first 3/4 of the season, they focused on Grant. Give the guy a break.

04-18-2006, 02:59 PM	#10
JimBone 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Thibodaux, La Posts: 614	I most definitely disagree with them and i disagrree with you. I think that Charles Grants running mate was better than Rice's running mate (Spires) and on even keel with the other two (Umenyiora and Rucker). The thing is, those big three made everything easier for their running mates and STILL found the time to put up their numbers. Now, I know he was really good the two previous years, but what if the same old song and dance happens again this year? 3 sacks this year. Will you still point the finger at someone else? Will you still blame the supporting cast? Or could the supporting cast start to blame him? Was the Saints defense that much different last year than it was the year before? The SAME PLAYERS were on the field the majority of the time the last two years and his numbers dropped off significantly.