Not Smart

xan · 04-17-2006, 12:27 PM

Just giving you the chance to provide the answer to that unknown. Then you might have something constructive to write. At least I will acknowlege my ignorance and am willing to adjust with new facts.

xan · 04-17-2006, 12:30 PM

Hey whodi, am I on the Poo Choo train??

saintswhodi · 04-17-2006, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by xan

The "Team salary includes the Rookie Minimum Active Salary as of the day of the draft for all drafted rookies. The salary for drafted rookies will stay at this amount until the player is signed, the teamÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢s rights are relinquished through waivers, or until the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season if the player remains unsigned." This means that there is no additional cap room for rookies once the rookie is signed to a contract. This impacts the overall cap and negates your draft impact argument, and reinforces my argument that overpaying for draft choices is a mistake, which makes that $14 million look a lot smaller. I'm going to assume, with no information, that the total of FA deals other than Brees has had a net zero effect on the overall cap. Lots of holes, not a lot of money. Still hating the FO.

In what way does that negate my argument? The Saints have a salary cap alottment equivalent to the number two pick in the draft. Do you or do you not believe thay have accounted for that in signing Drew Brees and whoemever else they signed? AND, who the hell is left in FA that would take up such a need on our cap, that we are pursuing? Let me answer, NOONE. So I fail to see how your cap argument holds a thimble's worth of water. It doesn't.

For each League Year of this Agreement, each Club shall have a Rookie Allocation, which shall be its proportional share of the Entering Player Pool, calculated based on the number, round, and position of the ClubÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢s selection choices in the Draft. The Rookie Allocation formula shall be agreed upon by the NFL and the NFLPA and shall remain in effect for the duration of the Agreement, unless the NFL and the NFLPA otherwise agree.

So our rookie pool is already calculated into the 14 mil. So the "we broke can't sign anybody" argument is still without basis or merit. Next order of hate.........................

saintswhodi · 04-17-2006, 12:32 PM

Whoops, double post.

wheelman · 04-17-2006, 12:35 PM

Just giving you the chance to provide the answer to that unknown. Then you might have something constructive to write. At least I will acknowlege my ignorance and am willing to adjust with new facts.

You're the one making the observation. Therefore, the burden of proof falls on you. I'd like to ask you, where did you get the information about the rookie salaries? Do you have a link?

saintswhodi · 04-17-2006, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by xan

Hey whodi, am I on the Poo Choo train??

Naw bud. I just am really having the hardest time seeing where you are coming from with this. We're on a great position, and you're poo-pooing it. I simply can not understand.

NEXTPROBOWLER · 04-17-2006, 12:44 PM

i see this a touchy subject, i'll leave this one alone lol

BJSim · 04-17-2006, 12:52 PM

xan,

worst case scenario... no one trades with us and we're stuck picking #2 and the FO doesn't want Leinart, Williams (those valued at #2). They CAN pass the pick & let Tenn draft #2. Then continue to a point where it's worth it for them to take who they want at the draft slot they want. The Vikings did it a couple years ago. Do they get anything for thier pick? no, but they don't "overpay" as you put it for their draft pick. remember, if you pass, you can walk up to the podium at ANY POINT to take your pick. That's why when the Vikes did it, there were teams LITERALLY running up to the podium to make their selections before Minnesota could change it's mind.

xan · 04-17-2006, 01:10 PM

the allotment disappears with the signing of the contract. As of march 20, the Saints were $20 million under the cap.

http://www.theredzone.org/caproom.asp

This doesn't indicate whether the RAP is included.

According to the rules, the RAP is a cap within a cap. It limits how much a team can spend on its draft choices and undrafted rookies. Last year, the Saints had $3.6 million, while Tampa, picking #2, had just over $6million. Assuming inflation to $7 million, that's the maximum the Saints can spend on salaries and pro-rated bonuses this year.

If we are indeed $14 million under including the RAP, then we should have plenty of money to sign FA's. However, $7 million is not a lot of money for a "franchise qb" like Lienart or Young plus other selections. Either would demand a significant proportion of the total, and a large proportion for the qb position overall realtive to the total cap room. Still not the best negotiating position.

Less hate, thanks whodi.

FatiusJeebs · 04-17-2006, 01:34 PM

Well....I still think the Saints have some leverage. Ok...lets say we called our bluff on the QB Chase....that does not mean that other teams will not want that spot to secure one of these Qb's. There are many teams in this league that need arm assistance......with us sitting at #2....I know we shouldn't trade toooo far down but.....I'm sure some team will give up quite a bit for that spot. Or we can go with plan b....pick a kick ass player.

04-17-2006, 12:32 PM	#13
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by xan The "Team salary includes the Rookie Minimum Active Salary as of the day of the draft for all drafted rookies. The salary for drafted rookies will stay at this amount until the player is signed, the teamÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢s rights are relinquished through waivers, or until the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season if the player remains unsigned." This means that there is no additional cap room for rookies once the rookie is signed to a contract. This impacts the overall cap and negates your draft impact argument, and reinforces my argument that overpaying for draft choices is a mistake, which makes that $14 million look a lot smaller. I'm going to assume, with no information, that the total of FA deals other than Brees has had a net zero effect on the overall cap. Lots of holes, not a lot of money. Still hating the FO. In what way does that negate my argument? The Saints have a salary cap alottment equivalent to the number two pick in the draft. Do you or do you not believe thay have accounted for that in signing Drew Brees and whoemever else they signed? AND, who the hell is left in FA that would take up such a need on our cap, that we are pursuing? Let me answer, NOONE. So I fail to see how your cap argument holds a thimble's worth of water. It doesn't. For each League Year of this Agreement, each Club shall have a Rookie Allocation, which shall be its proportional share of the Entering Player Pool, calculated based on the number, round, and position of the ClubÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢s selection choices in the Draft. The Rookie Allocation formula shall be agreed upon by the NFL and the NFLPA and shall remain in effect for the duration of the Agreement, unless the NFL and the NFLPA otherwise agree. So our rookie pool is already calculated into the 14 mil. So the "we broke can't sign anybody" argument is still without basis or merit. Next order of hate.........................

04-17-2006, 12:35 PM	#15
wheelman Sammich Lover Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 682	Just giving you the chance to provide the answer to that unknown. Then you might have something constructive to write. At least I will acknowlege my ignorance and am willing to adjust with new facts. You're the one making the observation. Therefore, the burden of proof falls on you. I'd like to ask you, where did you get the information about the rookie salaries? Do you have a link?
wheelman Sammich Lover Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 682

04-17-2006, 12:40 PM	#16
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by xan Hey whodi, am I on the Poo Choo train?? Naw bud. I just am really having the hardest time seeing where you are coming from with this. We're on a great position, and you're poo-pooing it. I simply can not understand.

04-17-2006, 01:10 PM	#19
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	the allotment disappears with the signing of the contract. As of march 20, the Saints were $20 million under the cap. http://www.theredzone.org/caproom.asp This doesn't indicate whether the RAP is included. According to the rules, the RAP is a cap within a cap. It limits how much a team can spend on its draft choices and undrafted rookies. Last year, the Saints had $3.6 million, while Tampa, picking #2, had just over $6million. Assuming inflation to $7 million, that's the maximum the Saints can spend on salaries and pro-rated bonuses this year. If we are indeed $14 million under including the RAP, then we should have plenty of money to sign FA's. However, $7 million is not a lot of money for a "franchise qb" like Lienart or Young plus other selections. Either would demand a significant proportion of the total, and a large proportion for the qb position overall realtive to the total cap room. Still not the best negotiating position. Less hate, thanks whodi.
	Calvin: "I wish I was a Tiger." Hobbes: "Common lament."

04-17-2006, 01:34 PM	#20
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	Well....I still think the Saints have some leverage. Ok...lets say we called our bluff on the QB Chase....that does not mean that other teams will not want that spot to secure one of these Qb's. There are many teams in this league that need arm assistance......with us sitting at #2....I know we shouldn't trade toooo far down but.....I'm sure some team will give up quite a bit for that spot. Or we can go with plan b....pick a kick ass player.
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973

04-17-2006, 12:27 PM	#11
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	Just giving you the chance to provide the answer to that unknown. Then you might have something constructive to write. At least I will acknowlege my ignorance and am willing to adjust with new facts.

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04-17-2006, 12:30 PM	#12
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	Hey whodi, am I on the Poo Choo train??

04-17-2006, 12:44 PM	#17
NEXTPROBOWLER 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 269	i see this a touchy subject, i'll leave this one alone lol

04-17-2006, 12:52 PM	#18
BJSim 500+ posts Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Centreville, VA Posts: 577	xan, worst case scenario... no one trades with us and we're stuck picking #2 and the FO doesn't want Leinart, Williams (those valued at #2). They CAN pass the pick & let Tenn draft #2. Then continue to a point where it's worth it for them to take who they want at the draft slot they want. The Vikings did it a couple years ago. Do they get anything for thier pick? no, but they don't "overpay" as you put it for their draft pick. remember, if you pass, you can walk up to the podium at ANY POINT to take your pick. That's why when the Vikes did it, there were teams LITERALLY running up to the podium to make their selections before Minnesota could change it's mind.