Davis?????
 

Listening to ESPN's draft special (they analyze the saints tomorrow), I heard Kiper say that Vernon Davis is the 7th rated player in the draft. Has his stock really risen that fast? Will he be a top ten? They say he is the best TE to come out in years.

ps Anyone know a good raiders site like this one? I'd like to hear what the Raider Nation is saying about Brooks!

Raidersfan.net Couldnt stay long the first thread is who is the worst raiders qb in the last ten years. Towards the end they started bashing archie and saying how much better brooks was for the saints

They can be as optimistic about brooks as they want, but we have all watched him make horrible plays for the past few years. Yes, he was a good QB for the first two years, but then he dropped off. I hope Brooks can put it back together in Oakland, he cant play much worst than he did in NO.

As far as Davis goes, I really don't think he will go in the top ten. there are too many other players that can go before him, and all the top ten teams need more than a TE for fix there problems. He's likley to go in the middle of the first. Of course, with Detroit picking at #9, you never know with Matt Millen.

I see just the opposite he is one of three picks that will go between 2 and 6. DBrick, AJ, and then Davis are the closest thing in the draft to a sure thing. I would add Bush but he will be gone at #1 anyways. After these 4 the rest are great ball players. These guys are once every ten years players. In davis's case we have NEVER seen a player like him in the draft before at TE.

whats the drop off between a good te and a great te probably not that much

What's the over/under on lateral passes Brooks completes to the "Black Hole"?

He is unlike any TE we have yet to see in the draft. he may just rewrite the position forever. freak is a good lable

Trading with the raiders and drafting Davis at 7 will help mask our thin WR corp. I say thin because we have nothing behind Horn and Stallworth..and Stallworth is being shopped so that only weakens it. Kansas City and San Diego have been able to have productive offenses with less than spectacular WR's and a freak TE. Maybe we do the same thing.

they also have one of the best Olines in football....uve probably heard of their left tackle... he played for us for a good chunk of his career... willie roaf....

Anyone remember Ricky Dudley? No player is a sure thing and though I think Davis will have a very good career, he is being over-hyped.

Kellen Winslow Jr was a cant miss prospect 3 years ago. He was the next great thing. Hurt his first two years. There is no such thing as a cant miss prospect.

Kellen Winslow Jr = stupidity that does not count
none of the above mention even came close to doing the things he did with much less offensive support or at the combine. keep trying to convience me otherwise. his up side is only overshadowed by bush. nothing is sure but he is such a good weapon all over the field

Shockey has been a staple with the giants, Gates (though undrafted) has done wonders in SD, Shannon Sharpe was the MAN in Denver, and Gonzalez is a great weapon in KC! Davis would definitaly give Brees a "Gates" type option in NO. Add Hilton for a 2 TE set and that is a major mismatch for any D to contend with. While I think Hawk or D'brick would be the better pick I don't think I'd complain if the Saints draft Davis.

i wouldnt complain about it if we are at #7...

I guess I should Clarify that! :-P ONLY IF THEY TRADE DOWN!!!

Me either, but I would prefer Haloti Ngata. It is our biggest need & at that point Ngata, Vernon Davis, & Michael Huff would be the best available players. I still want Hawk though, so I hope we don't go down that far unless Ditka makes the deal for Oakland.

see the problem i have with taking ngata is that DTs taken in the first round are more likely to bust in my opinion... i might be wrong i havent really checked the % of first round DTs who arent but they seem more often then not to me...

Funny... I just heard Mel Kiper say today on ESPN that the biggest 1st round bust percentages are from defensive linemen. :shock: Guess what position had the next highest bust percentage? Yep, Tight Ends. :?

Davis in the first? Um, no thanks. How many playoff wins Gates, Gonzales, Shockey etc. have? Pittsburgh won with a rookie TE playing, who isn't even considered in the same league as Vernon Davis. I will admit Davis is a freak, but he's not a freak for this team. I just jeep wondering why noone is willing to give our offensive players a chance with a good QB. I don't think ANYONE on this offense can be judged fully coming from having Brooks as a QB, except Joe Horn, who had the benefit of 85% of the passes going his way. LEt's see how Hilton does with a QB who knows what touch is, and knows a 6'8" TE can't catch fastballs low and away. I know we don't have a lot of depth, but you don't spend a top 10 pick in the draft on depth, that's what the second day is for. No thanks on Davis.

ok so at 7 who do you take whodi?

didnt todd heap win a SB? he is a pretty good TE i must say.. what about moose johnson? hmmm.. mark chamura?.... oh... and that rookie TE from pittsburg? oh he graded out at 92... :roll:


and id bet that 90% of NFL GMs would tell you that you draft BPA, not for need...

Pak, Darryl "Moose" Johnston was a FB, not a tight end. Jay Novacek was the Cowboys' tight end during their dynasty years. But hey, what about Shannon Sharpe, huh? He was pretty darn good. :lol:

yup ur right... novacek... it was one of them damn cowboys....

Bunkley, Ngata, Huff. If Hawk is not there.

Don't forget the Patriots' stable of tight ends.

*sigh* God I hate when people arguing without knowing their facts. First, as ghnadi pointed out, Johnston was a FB. Second, Heap was not even with the Ravens when they won the Superbowl. Wow. Mark Chmura? Played with a HOF QB. I guarantee you if you ask ANY Green Bay fan how much Chmura had to do with them winning the Superbowl and I bet they would say very little. Besides the fact that NONE of these were the TEs who were mentioned. As far as Heath Miller from Pittsburgh, Davis rates out at a 98. If 98 higher than 92? Back to the drawing board. :roll:

Well, if we fo go back to 7, i think Davis is the only playmaker left on the board. I am weary of Ngata and Bunkley is one of those Florida State boys so you never know what kind of trouble he is gonna get into. At least Davis gives us another guy to make plays. I say Davis or Huff at 7.

I could go with Huff there, depending on what the plan is for Dwight Smith. I am so much more for us taking a defensive star with our first pick over any offensive player, with the excpetion of D'Brick.

I could live with Huff only if the Saints see him as a corner. I know some teams see him differently, but if they feel he can come in a play right away at corner, that eliminates a huge hole in the secondary. I know it wouldnt be ideal, but at least i am not counting on Fred Thomas and Jason Craft every Sunday.

Huff has the size and speed to play corner, so it may not be out of the question, but as a rookie, i'd rather keep him at safety and move Dwight Smith back to corner, where he had played extensively with Tampa Bay, and where he wanted to play as a FA until he decided to pull a beebee gun in a drive thru and took the first offer that came, which was us and a safety job.

Very good question Whodi, thats why I say DON'T TRADE DONTE' STALLWORTH!!! PLEASE?!?! He can be a game changer if gotten the ball in his hands, not shoes or too-high.

I dont want to trade Stallworth either. I dont know if it has to do with the fact that we dont have anyone else to step up and play or if it is because i want to see him play with a better QB. Just to touch on what you said Whodi, i think if the Saints did draft Davis, it wouldnt be for depth. They would be drafting him to start and be a factor in our offense. That would make Hilton our number 2 and take the pressure off of him.

True, but why not try and give Hilton a chance though? I know Davis is a once a draft thing, but maybe Hilton can break it?

The same reason why i dont want to give Fincher a try. The same reason why i dont want to give Jason Craft a try. The same reason why i dont want to give Chase Lyman a try. That reason is because there is someone available that can make your team better in that area.

I don't agree with that. Fincher is an unknown. Lyman is an unknown. We ALL know Craft sucks. If this was the argument, we could draft anyone and call it an upgrade at any position on the team. The point, in my mind, is who would help the most, and it's not a TE. I have seen enough of Hilton to know he would do okay, not pro bowl caliber but okay with a better QB. I am willing to give him that chance. Besides the fact there are several decent TEs we could get in a later round.

[quote="

I don't agree with that. Fincher is an unknown. Lyman is an unknown. We ALL know Craft sucks. If this was the argument, we could draft anyone and call it an upgrade at any position on the team. The point, in my mind, is who would help the most, and it's not a TE. I have seen enough of Hilton to know he would do okay, not pro bowl caliber but okay with a better QB. I am willing to give him that chance. Besides the fact there are several decent TEs we could get in a later round.[/quote]

So if you think Fincher can play, why do you want Hawk so much. Simmons, Fujita, and Bockwoldt have all proven that they can play to some degree. I think that Davis is the as good of an upgrade at tight end as Hawk is at linebacker. Stinchcomb is an unknown but we both would like to have Ferguson.

Wait, where did I say I think Fincher can play? I said he is an unknown. You nor I know if he can play, cause neither have seen him play. My point was your comments on Lyman and Fincher are wholly unfounded cause you have not seen them play.

As far as Davis being as big an upgrade at TE as Hawk at LB, well, I'll just leave that one alone. Matter of opinion.

And I am willing to give Stinch a shot at RT. I WANT us to pick Hawk. That is my one through 100 choice. All I ever said about Ferguson was I wouldn't be mad if we took him. Big difference than actually wanting him.

OK...then we can just chalk this one up as a difference of opinion. To me, if you are an unknown, then you havent shown anything. As far as Hilton, he has shown that he can be adequate at best. That is why i say Davis would not be a draft pick for depth...at least he has potential to be great. Same with Hawk...same with Ferguson...

I can live with that, difference of opinion.

I do want to pose this question to you whodi...If we drafted Davis, do you think he would start? I do. I think whoever we draft in the first round is going to start for us. That means, Hawk would start, while moving someone who was starting to the bench. Ferguson would move Stinchcomb to the bench. Huff would move Craft to the bench. Now, all of those picks improve our depth. The way you put it, Davis would back up Hilton, and add to our depth. Thats where our opinions differ.