The Bush Number Issue

pakowitz · 05-04-2006, 03:32 PM

here is LSU Roster for next season... the player without #s are incoming freshman who havent been given #s yet... they easily have 100 players...

http://dandydon.com/footballroster.html

Tobias-Reiper · 05-04-2006, 04:01 PM

No matter how much a learned man you are; when it comes to sports, it's all about the rituals and not messing up with the karma.

The league HAS TO give Reggie the OK, not because of Reggie Bush, but because of the Saints and the city of New Orleans. They need to keep the aura of #5

I can see how a numbers scheme helps the refs when looking at the o-line, though, as far as calls like illegal man downfield, or non-elegible receiver, illegal formations, etc... but makes no sense at RB.

Adrian needs to give it up or be cut

pakowitz · 05-04-2006, 04:21 PM

Adrian needs to give it up or be cut

wow thats harsh...

LSUJeremy · 05-04-2006, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by yasoon

That's cause most D1 schools have over 100 players on the roster so they have to do that.

Is that true? Not doubting you, but that seems a bit excessive to me.

D1 schools have a maximum 85 scholarship players. The number of walkons you can have is unlimited.

yasoon · 05-04-2006, 04:40 PM

I would think throwing AMAC 30K would suffice. Reggie can wipe his a$$ with that.

And how is Subway gonna have the reggie bush combo if he can't be # 5?

LKelley67 · 05-04-2006, 04:47 PM

I don't think it is all that great of a rule but there is some reasoning behind it. My response to some of the points-

1. It could change for Reggie cuz it is all about money. The NFL will change any rule if it means significantly more money. Why do you think we have 35-28 games now? Reggie isn't just any player but the biggest potential marketing tool for the league in quite a few years, another level beyond Edge. By principle they should say no but I won't be surprised if a change comes.

2. Numbers can be quite ritualistic for athletes. If it means that much, whether for self or marketing, and you think you might have the stroke to get it... more power to ya.

3. Wide receivers cannot wear single digits

4. Players do lineup in other positions as allowed. But their number is allocated to their normal position.

5. AMac does have seniority and could technically keep it. If granted the use of 5 though I would think a)Reggie would gladly pay him the most ever for a number change. Wasn't Portis $40K? b)there would be FO pressure if he didn't want to (get your ass to Europe).

6. WRs were allowed to expand into the teens not because of any personal request but because with retired numbers by teams some were running out of 80's numbers to use. Same thing for defensive lineman expanded to the 90s a few years back. Rbs can have from 20-49 so that isn't an issue.

7. The system of numbers was not created for the fans but in large part for the referees. Number identification allows them to more quickly discern players and the rules related foralignments and movement, etc.

It would only be of benefit for him to get it. THE first single digit runner, more spotlight, more marketing... It will be cool to see some Saint jerseys when you are traveling around the country now no matter what number. If he can be half the hype that is building this is gonna be some kinda fun change to see this season (and beyond!).

---and that reminds me of a side note: remember the dreadful bend and let them run all over you defensive designs by Venturi? What about the offensive schemes? That dumbed down thing last year had me hollering at the opponents defense what play was coming just by the alignment and shifts. I have the feeling we'll see some innovative gameplans and plays that make us say oh ****, what a call! this season.

TallySaint · 05-04-2006, 04:59 PM

Good post LKelley. From what I know and read - rule wise - accurate, also. I don't care much whether Bush gets 5 or not.

Portis did buy his number. If I remember correctly, the player (name escapes me) sold his number for a huge amount to be paid by Portis on some sort of payment plan. The player was cut after the initial transaction and agreement. When Portis stopped payments the matter went to court. Portis was required to pay (a reduced sum, I think) the original number "owner". Crazy how that stuff works. Or doesn't work, for that matter.

My 2 cents.

8)

smyce · 05-04-2006, 07:31 PM

Great post LKelley.

The original use of numbers was in baseball which would indicate where you hit in the order. Example Babe Ruth hit 3rd therefore 3, Lou Gehrig 4th and so on.

The numbers for other sports were made common for broadcasters so that they could recognize which players were which from up in the booth. This is why Hornung was allowed to wear the number he wore way back when.

saintswhodi · 05-04-2006, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by smyce

Great post LKelley.

The original use of numbers was in baseball which would indicate where you hit in the order. Example Babe Ruth hit 3rd therefore 3, Lou Gehrig 4th and so on.

The numbers for other sports were made common for broadcasters so that they could recognize which players were which from up in the booth. This is why Hornung was allowed to wear the number he wore way back when.

So, is the argument that if a player could where any number he wanted, announcers will get confused? Do they get confused at college games? Announcers get a playsheet with each number and a player's name before the game, and they reference it during the game. I don't see the problem.

pakowitz · 05-04-2006, 08:07 PM

it doesnt look like he is arguing anything... i believe he was just making a statement...

05-04-2006, 04:01 PM	#12
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	No matter how much a learned man you are; when it comes to sports, it's all about the rituals and not messing up with the karma. The league HAS TO give Reggie the OK, not because of Reggie Bush, but because of the Saints and the city of New Orleans. They need to keep the aura of #5 I can see how a numbers scheme helps the refs when looking at the o-line, though, as far as calls like illegal man downfield, or non-elegible receiver, illegal formations, etc... but makes no sense at RB. Adrian needs to give it up or be cut
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

05-04-2006, 04:27 PM	#14
LSUJeremy 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 472	Originally Posted by yasoon That's cause most D1 schools have over 100 players on the roster so they have to do that. Is that true? Not doubting you, but that seems a bit excessive to me. D1 schools have a maximum 85 scholarship players. The number of walkons you can have is unlimited.
LSUJeremy 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 472

05-04-2006, 04:40 PM	#15
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	I would think throwing AMAC 30K would suffice. Reggie can wipe his a$$ with that. And how is Subway gonna have the reggie bush combo if he can't be # 5?
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

05-04-2006, 04:59 PM	#17
TallySaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tallahassee Posts: 1,367	Good post LKelley. From what I know and read - rule wise - accurate, also. I don't care much whether Bush gets 5 or not. Portis did buy his number. If I remember correctly, the player (name escapes me) sold his number for a huge amount to be paid by Portis on some sort of payment plan. The player was cut after the initial transaction and agreement. When Portis stopped payments the matter went to court. Portis was required to pay (a reduced sum, I think) the original number "owner". Crazy how that stuff works. Or doesn't work, for that matter. My 2 cents. 8)
	My Guardian Angel wears a hard hat.

05-04-2006, 07:39 PM	#19
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by smyce Great post LKelley. The original use of numbers was in baseball which would indicate where you hit in the order. Example Babe Ruth hit 3rd therefore 3, Lou Gehrig 4th and so on. The numbers for other sports were made common for broadcasters so that they could recognize which players were which from up in the booth. This is why Hornung was allowed to wear the number he wore way back when. So, is the argument that if a player could where any number he wanted, announcers will get confused? Do they get confused at college games? Announcers get a playsheet with each number and a player's name before the game, and they reference it during the game. I don't see the problem.

05-04-2006, 03:32 PM	#11
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	here is LSU Roster for next season... the player without #s are incoming freshman who havent been given #s yet... they easily have 100 players... http://dandydon.com/footballroster.html

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05-04-2006, 04:21 PM	#13
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Adrian needs to give it up or be cut wow thats harsh...

05-04-2006, 04:47 PM	#16
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	I don't think it is all that great of a rule but there is some reasoning behind it. My response to some of the points- 1. It could change for Reggie cuz it is all about money. The NFL will change any rule if it means significantly more money. Why do you think we have 35-28 games now? Reggie isn't just any player but the biggest potential marketing tool for the league in quite a few years, another level beyond Edge. By principle they should say no but I won't be surprised if a change comes. 2. Numbers can be quite ritualistic for athletes. If it means that much, whether for self or marketing, and you think you might have the stroke to get it... more power to ya. 3. Wide receivers cannot wear single digits 4. Players do lineup in other positions as allowed. But their number is allocated to their normal position. 5. AMac does have seniority and could technically keep it. If granted the use of 5 though I would think a)Reggie would gladly pay him the most ever for a number change. Wasn't Portis $40K? b)there would be FO pressure if he didn't want to (get your ass to Europe). 6. WRs were allowed to expand into the teens not because of any personal request but because with retired numbers by teams some were running out of 80's numbers to use. Same thing for defensive lineman expanded to the 90s a few years back. Rbs can have from 20-49 so that isn't an issue. 7. The system of numbers was not created for the fans but in large part for the referees. Number identification allows them to more quickly discern players and the rules related foralignments and movement, etc. It would only be of benefit for him to get it. THE first single digit runner, more spotlight, more marketing... It will be cool to see some Saint jerseys when you are traveling around the country now no matter what number. If he can be half the hype that is building this is gonna be some kinda fun change to see this season (and beyond!). ---and that reminds me of a side note: remember the dreadful bend and let them run all over you defensive designs by Venturi? What about the offensive schemes? That dumbed down thing last year had me hollering at the opponents defense what play was coming just by the alignment and shifts. I have the feeling we'll see some innovative gameplans and plays that make us say oh ****, what a call! this season.

05-04-2006, 07:31 PM	#18
smyce 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cedar Falls, IA Posts: 184	Great post LKelley. The original use of numbers was in baseball which would indicate where you hit in the order. Example Babe Ruth hit 3rd therefore 3, Lou Gehrig 4th and so on. The numbers for other sports were made common for broadcasters so that they could recognize which players were which from up in the booth. This is why Hornung was allowed to wear the number he wore way back when.

05-04-2006, 08:07 PM	#20
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	it doesnt look like he is arguing anything... i believe he was just making a statement...