The Bush Number Issue
 

I have a couple of comments/questions on the number 5 RB thing.

- James tried to petition the league to be number five a few years back and got denied. Why would this change for Bush?

- I love Reggie, but this is a little annoying. Sounds like an agent talking. It's a number, play by the rules, regardless of how stupid they are.

- Could we not call the dude a WR if he really wants to be number 5?

- A couple of places where this makes no sense. Warrick Dunn lines up as QB, Vick lines up at receiver...direct snap to Dunn. Technically, he is the QB on the play and he doesn't have a QB number. Conwell used to line up at fullback for the Rams as number 85. You can declare as an eligible receiver with a lineman/linebacker number.

- Has Bush offered Amac money for his number. It seems a bit presumtious that he can just come in and have his number. Whether he's the third stringer or not, he has seniority and it is his number.

- I think the rule is stupid, but I don't see what the big deal is. People change numbers all the time. This will certainly be the highest selling Saints jersey ever. I'm buying one, regardless of what his number is.

I personally hope he gets #5, cause I think it's a stupid rule in the first place. If Mario Williams wore #9, would you really confuse him with Steve McNair or something? Players should get to wear whatever # they please, IT'S THEIR JERSEY. I recall on PTI yesterday Wilbon saying Paul Hornung wore #5 as a RB, and he's in the hall of fame. Did it hurt the league at all? No. Just like the stupid no celebrations thing. There are too many nitpicky rules in this league, and this is just one.

Plus, they allowed receivers to be able to wear teens, so, just open it all up. If you can;t watch a football game without getting confused by watching different numbers, you prob shouldn't be watching anyway.

And when I say "you" yas I don't actually mean you, I mean fans in general.

I agree whodi. Open it up...especially where "skilled" players are concerned.

The dumb thing is in college you can have 2 guys with the same number as long as they aren't on the field together.

I say let him have it...... If not, go with 25.

keyshawn johnson, roy williams, reggie williams, just off the top of my head.

i don't see what the big deal is either, personally.

25 is Freddy Mac's number

I want reggie to wear number 5 but just think about how a one digit number look on a big person instead of two digits lol i hate seeing big people with single numbers it just dont fit them lol

That's cause most D1 schools have over 100 players on the roster so they have to do that.

I like the rule. I like how by looking at a guy's number you know just about what position he plays.

Granted, if the rule was changed I wouldnt be upset, but I do like the rule.

Is that true? Not doubting you, but that seems a bit excessive to me.

Florida State's total 2005 roster was around 85 with seven duplicate jersey numbers.




8)

here is LSU Roster for next season... the player without #s are incoming freshman who havent been given #s yet... they easily have 100 players...


http://dandydon.com/footballroster.html

No matter how much a learned man you are; when it comes to sports, it's all about the rituals and not messing up with the karma.

The league HAS TO give Reggie the OK, not because of Reggie Bush, but because of the Saints and the city of New Orleans. They need to keep the aura of #5

I can see how a numbers scheme helps the refs when looking at the o-line, though, as far as calls like illegal man downfield, or non-elegible receiver, illegal formations, etc... but makes no sense at RB.

Adrian needs to give it up or be cut :)

wow thats harsh...

D1 schools have a maximum 85 scholarship players. The number of walkons you can have is unlimited.

I would think throwing AMAC 30K would suffice. Reggie can wipe his a$$ with that.

And how is Subway gonna have the reggie bush combo if he can't be # 5? :)

I don't think it is all that great of a rule but there is some reasoning behind it. My response to some of the points-

1. It could change for Reggie cuz it is all about money. The NFL will change any rule if it means significantly more money. Why do you think we have 35-28 games now? Reggie isn't just any player but the biggest potential marketing tool for the league in quite a few years, another level beyond Edge. By principle they should say no but I won't be surprised if a change comes.

2. Numbers can be quite ritualistic for athletes. If it means that much, whether for self or marketing, and you think you might have the stroke to get it... more power to ya.

3. Wide receivers cannot wear single digits

4. Players do lineup in other positions as allowed. But their number is allocated to their normal position.

5. AMac does have seniority and could technically keep it. If granted the use of 5 though I would think a)Reggie would gladly pay him the most ever for a number change. Wasn't Portis $40K? b)there would be FO pressure if he didn't want to (get your ass to Europe).

6. WRs were allowed to expand into the teens not because of any personal request but because with retired numbers by teams some were running out of 80's numbers to use. Same thing for defensive lineman expanded to the 90s a few years back. Rbs can have from 20-49 so that isn't an issue.

7. The system of numbers was not created for the fans but in large part for the referees. Number identification allows them to more quickly discern players and the rules related foralignments and movement, etc.

It would only be of benefit for him to get it. THE first single digit runner, more spotlight, more marketing... It will be cool to see some Saint jerseys when you are traveling around the country now no matter what number. If he can be half the hype that is building this is gonna be some kinda fun change to see this season (and beyond!).

---and that reminds me of a side note: remember the dreadful bend and let them run all over you defensive designs by Venturi? What about the offensive schemes? That dumbed down thing last year had me hollering at the opponents defense what play was coming just by the alignment and shifts. I have the feeling we'll see some innovative gameplans and plays that make us say oh ****, what a call! this season.

Good post LKelley. From what I know and read - rule wise - accurate, also. I don't care much whether Bush gets 5 or not.

Portis did buy his number. If I remember correctly, the player (name escapes me) sold his number for a huge amount to be paid by Portis on some sort of payment plan. The player was cut after the initial transaction and agreement. When Portis stopped payments the matter went to court. Portis was required to pay (a reduced sum, I think) the original number "owner". Crazy how that stuff works. Or doesn't work, for that matter.


My 2 cents.



8)

Great post LKelley.

The original use of numbers was in baseball which would indicate where you hit in the order. Example Babe Ruth hit 3rd therefore 3, Lou Gehrig 4th and so on.

The numbers for other sports were made common for broadcasters so that they could recognize which players were which from up in the booth. This is why Hornung was allowed to wear the number he wore way back when.

So, is the argument that if a player could where any number he wanted, announcers will get confused? Do they get confused at college games? Announcers get a playsheet with each number and a player's name before the game, and they reference it during the game. I don't see the problem.

it doesnt look like he is arguing anything... i believe he was just making a statement...

I dont think I understand your point???

Precisely.

I don't think he was making an argument just noting the history.

I forgot also, Paul Horning was drafted as a quarterback out of Notre Dame. He also was Green Bay's kicker a for a few years. That is how he held the single season scoring record for a long time.

Other way back oddities are former Saint QB Billy Kilmer playing primarily as a RB for the 49ers in a 1961 shotgun offense. One of my earliest football memories was the 1965 Colts. Unitas went out with injury, Backup Cuozzo went out with injury, no practice squads. 9-3-1 they had to win a final game to win the conference championship. Tom Matte a RB who had not played QB since college five years before was forced into starting. He led them to a thrilling 20-17 win. Next the Packers. It took 10 minutes into the second overtime before Don Chandler had a bad field goal called good by the referees to win. It was so clearly a bad call that the following year is when goal posts were required to be 20' high and painted yellow. It was really odd seeing a #41 at QB in big time games.

----hehe, two people post the same while I made sure I had my memory correct.

Well, with all these ambigous generalities being thrown around, I don't see anyone making a point any more. For these history buffs, are you for the league allowing Bush to have his number, are you for doing away with restrictions on numbers, do you like restrictions on numbers, what? I like history as much as the next guy, but at some point you wanna make a point right? That's what the first half of this thread was about. Sorry I didn't catch the changing winds.

Perhaps if you would read the whole thread, as opposed to jumping on someone's case, your world, and mine would be a much better place.

Also, Paul Hornung went into the Hall of Fame as a halfback, no matter how many hats he wore.

I did read the whole thread, I just didn't keep track of who posted what once the rambling started. :roll:

Next line:

Sssssoooo, exactly what side of the fence do you fall? :roll:

Are you just trying to pick a fight? The man is saying that if Reggie is allowed allotment to use 5, that it would be a good thing for marketing and notoriety of the first RB to wear a single digit in recent years.

He is also saying that its going to be a good thing to see a Saints jersey around the country, regardless of the number. Therefore he is saying that he thinks its a good thing if Bush changes the number for the attention the franchise would get by it, however if it doesnt happen its going to be great seeing Saints jerseys all across the country.

Sometimes, if you just take a breath and read the things people post instead of quickly assuming you know more than everyone else and calling them out lots of unintelligent commentary is kept to one's self.

Yes, I hope he gets it. But the emphasis is the excitement and anticipation he is bringing. Like Michael Vick in advance, 5, 20, whatever.

I hope he gets it. It's kinda' like Michael Jordan....the number is synonymous with the man. Reggie Bush is #5!

THAT'S an answer. Thank you.

Um, that's not taking a side, which he just did though. Thanks for your lack of help. Appreciate it. Night night. :shock:

So I was correct. Just trying to pick a fight.

In some bizarro world, where "correct" means "couldn't possibly be more wrong," sure, I agree to that.

Still trying eh?

Maybe someone will bite. Stop trying with me though.

Yup, bizarro world. Let it go. :roll:

Hey Whodi..... "Woo-Sahh" :D

Hey Kelly....just realized that I suggested he go as a WR to get the number 5. I knew that WRs couldn't do that...just had a brainfart.

I can see the value of the system for the lineplay stuff and helping officials...they certainly need all the help they can get.

But with a RB, it shouldn't be that big of an issue.

I'm on the fence on this one...hoping that it is not a primadonna move but also that he get to wear five. It would just be nice from a marketing standpoint...and I have taken a keen interest in the Saints marketing as we hope to keep our team.

I will say as little as I care for Edge...it would be unfair to let one guy do this after you recently kept another guy from doing it. I'm for fairness and consistency, but I'm a Saints fan so to hell with everyone else...