I Smell a 3-4
 

Nothing to back it up. Call me crazy.

Gut feelin'.



8)

Gary Gibbs
Defensive Coordinator

Gary Gibbs, a 26-year coaching veteran in both the college and NFL ranks, became the first hire of new Saints coach Sean Payton on January 23, 2006 as he was named defensive coordinator.

The former linebacker coach for the Dallas Cowboys for the last four seasons, Gibbs, 53, has been a coordinator three times, including at LSU in 2001.

Gibbs is a proven leader and an experienced defensive strategist. He joined Bill Parcells' staff in 2002 and made the Cowboys' linebacker corps one of the team's standout position groups. Since Gibbs' arrival, linebackers have led the club in stops each season and posted some of the top tackle-totals in franchise history.



8)

The Saints really dont have the personnel for a 3-4. Will Smith would have to move to LB. We would need to find a run stopping DT and another run stopping DE. Ninkovich is too small to play DE in a 3-4...and we dont have 3 good LB's...let alone 4. But maybe down the road...i just dont think its a good idea.

I agree with this to an extent. I don't think Will would have to move to LB. I think he would make a good 3-4 defensive end. I think he could be the most well-rounded player on defense. We don't really need another run stopping DE, because Grant has improved immensely on the run. DT is definitely a problem. There isn't a DT on the team that would be a good fit in a 3-4. I think Ninkovich would be a perfect ROLB in a 3-4 system, though. Simmons has played the middle before, and could really come back to form in a 3-4. Fujita is accustomed to that style defense, so he's fit in nicely. The only real concerns I have at this time are DT and the other MLB position. I do think it will be changed by next season though.

It is hard to see a 34 in this year draft. but i agree the coaches on D are 34 guys. We are better of in the secondary this year. I see alot of safties on the fiels as 3 and 4 CB. Next year will bring the D together in the draft. We have a very high priced backfield and with houston keeping us from screwing up the draft with bush we had no choice but look to the offensive side of the ball. Some nice D talent in next years draft. DE will be okay. Scott is better suited for inside SLB, next to Colby. I hope Colby can do it. I think he can. so the outside LB is of concern for both sides. do not get me started on the NT/DT positon.

Maybe some of our safeties could moved to LB. It worked for Urlacher, right?

In my opinion, I would be cool if we stayed with the 4-3, however if we're gonna eventually play the 3-4, I'd rather make the change now. I don't like 'transitional' years; I'd rather us take the growing pains and get our key players used to the system now.

To me, it boils down to this: if we're gonna run a 4-3 it is imperative that we find a player who can do a great job at MLB. Maybe Bockwoldt or Fincher or another candidate can came thru for us, like Tatupu did for Seattle last year or Zach Thomas did back during Jimmy Johnson's first year w/ the Dolphins. If this doesn't appear likely, then let's just switch to the 3-4. The Texans are switching to the 4-3 and they've got some capable 3-4 players who we could trade for or might even be cut on June 1.

I've always liked the 3-4 a little better since seeing the Dome Patrol do their thing. The Steelers have been so effective with it over Cowher's entire tenure. With the 3-4, it's more difficult to see where the blitz is coming from, if it's coming at all, and with good NT play, it's tought for the OL to create wide open running lanes against it.

That being said, teams like the Giants, Panthers and Bears are doing great w/ the 4-3 now and for the most part, we match up with those teams personnel-wise to run an effective 4-3. It's a tough call. My guess is that the staff is probably going to go with the 4-3 based on the decisions made in draft.

JB, while I agree with your analysis on the DT position, I honestly don't think Ninkovich playing DE is what Payton had in mind when he drafted him. Like someone else pointed out, I think Ninkovich is well suited to play ROLB. He has the size, a quick burst to the ball, & the sure tackling ability. As for the DE position, I think with the coaching in place now...we have as solid of 2 DE's as 90% of the other teams in the league. What we need is a good DT & a shut down corner!

Ok, Ninkovich could be an OLB in that scheme...but you do realize that 3-4 DE's are supposed to be big, 300 pound beasts that stop the run...i think Charles Grant can do that, but Will Smith? It takes too much of his game away to ask him to play DE in a 3-4. He will be a run stopper and a space eater and it would negate what he does best and thats rush the passer. I just dont think he is a good fit for it at all...but i do not doubt that this staff will switch to a 3-4 when they get the right personnel.

I would say we have the personnel to run a 3-4.

We have Thomas at DT now. Whitehead and he could make a decent rotation. As far as LB, I agree that Smith and Nink. could be moved to the outside. Fujita and Simmons on the inside sounds good for the time being, and don't count out Fincher yet. At DE Leisle, Grant, and young could work as a rotation.

The most successful 3-4 defense in the league (Pittsburgh) play these two guys at end.......

Travis Kirschke - 6'03" 288 lbs.

Aaron Smith - 6'05" 298 lbs.

Also, Dallas will be playing these two guys at end.......

Marcus Spears - 6'04" 307 lbs.

Greg Ellis - 6'06" 271 lbs.

Now, we're not exactly bad off in a 3-4 with these guys at end.......

Charles Grant - 6'03" 290 lbs.

Will Smith - 6'03" 282 lbs.

The real eye opening thing about it is that our two guys (Grant & Smith) are faster & more athletic than the above named guys starting on successful 3-4 defenses on other teams in the league. They are also in the same weight class. :wink: So again......Why couldn't these two guys be successful on a 3-4 defense???????? :?

To answer your question.......Yes, but that was not the point. Did you even read my post? I don't remember saying anything about LB's other than that Ninkovich would be better suited as one instead of a DE. The point I was clearing up is that Grant & Smith could both be successful in a 3-4 scheme at the DE position & that they are not as undersized as some may suggest.

no you did not mention LBs but you did mention pitsburg. and since the role of the LBs is greatly increased with 4 on the field which allows pitsburg to dominate with the two lesser DE's

I don't see us going to a 3-4 until next year...

Holy crap don't like whodi see this thread.

Anyways, no way we go 3-4. So many problems with it personnel-wise that it is just ridiculous to think about. No pure nose tackled. Only two good linebackers. DEs aren't prototypical 3-4 ends. No linebackers who are adept at rushing the passer. Too many holes for a switch.

I didn't even wanna weigh in. I am not gonna down anyone's opinion, but the idea of us going to a 3-4 is ridiculous TO ME. With the LBs we have? 3Ugh. 0 something year old career back-up Thomas or Sullivan at DT? Ugh ugh. And basically neutralizing Smith or Grant at DE. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. Maybe after next year's draft, we can start to align our stars. But ask La'Roi Glover and Greg Ellis, classic 4-3 DE and DT, how well that switch to a 3-4 in Dallas worked for them? And seriously, the weakness at LB alone should be enough for us to discourage that move. Especially with James Allen being out again now. Now if we got Donnie Edwards, we MAY be able to move to a 3-4, although I still feel we would get killed with the D-line we would have. Outside of Smith or Grant, anyone see a true pass rushing threat coming out of these LBs, with SMith and Grant getting swallowed up at DE? Has Thomas ever even played DT in a 3-4 at any point in his back-up career? Just a few, well a lot of reservations i'd have at this point.

Young is a 3-4 DE end, smith can be used as terrel suggs. We need to get edwards for this but we could have DE:Grant and Young, NT: Thomas and Sully (swap every down) OLB: Smith and Fujita ILD: Edwards and Simmons, very possible, ninkovich and bockwoldt would also be good fits as rotational lbs, thomas and sully can motavate eachother :D

The staff has said it will be the 4-3, because that is best for the players they have.

And they know what they are talking about...Will Smith is NOT and NEVER WILL BE a good fit as 3-4 DE. So, negating the strong suit of the best player on your defense doesnt make a lot of sense to me.

damn I agree with whodi, what is this world coming to... (not the first time though).

Our DE are pass rushers... we need run stuffing people that dictate to the OL that "hey, you have to double team the down guys in order to get a yard rushing. We don't have that.

When did Young play in a 3-4? Sully motivate someone?

Thomas would motivate Sully to keep his job, Young is an undersized DT, a good fit as a 3-4 end

Thomas motivating Sully is opinion, at best. NOTHING has motivated Sully to this point. There is no point in my future going forward as a Saints fan where I ever wanna see that tub of lard trying to hold down the fort in the middle of a 3-4. And the Young matter is opinion as well, cause I don't believe he ever played with a 3-4 in any of the Rems defenses, so saying he would do well is opinion too. And I am just pointing that out, cause you are stating it as fact that these things will happen.

He He....I've been down this road. I've been telling people that it would be nice to see the 3-4 and all I ever get is "that it will never happen" and so on and so on. Nice to see someone start a thread posing the same concept! :cool3:

Starting a thread about it by saying:

Way to back a winner. :wink:

Thanks to all for your informative responses.


8)

Hey Matlock....I never said he was right on the money or anything. All I am saying is that its nice to see someone thinking about the same defense that I have been all this time.

Defensive. Hhhhmmmmm.... Guess you didn't see the smilie.
It's nice to see, even though they freely admit they have nothing to back it up. Just wanted to be clear. I got it now. Let's try this again: :P :P :P

Hey, I been thinking we should move Bush to CB. We need one, and we have a RB who has already been a pro bowler. If Bush is only gonna get 15-20 touches on O, why not let him just go ahead and play corner too? Nothing to back this up of course, just a thought I had. :shock:

Sorry whodi...its still morning and I have not had enough coffee!!!! :cursing:

Oh and by the way.......that is a terrible idea! :love:

:lol: Same way I feel about the 3-4 idea. :P

But the 3-4 idea is a hell of a lot more feasable that Bush at CB whodi. :fanclub:

Are there any teams that can switch back and forth from 4-3 to 3-4 as the situation arises or does lack of personnel and the time to implement prevent it? If you did have the talent, it would be too much, playbook wise, to consider?

Thanks in advance for your responses.



8)

Not to me buddy. Not at all. :wink:

Get help whodi.......ASAP! :crazy:

It's usually the ones who need the help advising others to seek it. :P

A bad idea is a bad idea pally-o. :biggun:

A bad idea is in fact a bad idea. A realistic one is not as bad as a FLAT OUT bad idea. Running a 3-4 may sound like a bad idea to you....but using Bush as a CB might get you shot. :rocket:

The key word here is....USUALLY! :doh:

Hmm, if you didn't need help, you may have noticed that the Bush to CB thought was just a sarcastic response to how ridiculous I feel the thought of moving to a 3-4 is. See, it was a play on the fact you whole-heartedly backed an idea that was said to have been posted without any facts to support it at all. Being that you need help though, you missed that, and keep repeating it as if I meant it. Yikes. Don't turn around, guys in white lab coats are coming to "help" you FJ. just go with it. :wink:

How do you know they are coming for me.....whodi?

They're coming to take you away HA HA
They're coming to take you away HA HA, HEE HEE, Ho Ho
To the funny farm....

I honeslty forgot the rest of the words...but you get the hint. :crazy:

Here you go Buddy, Just for you.

They're Coming to Take Me Away, Ha-haaa!
Remember when you ran away
And I got on my knees
And begged you not to leave
Because I'd go berserk?
Well. . .

You left me anyhow
And then the days got worse and worse
And now you see I've gone
Completely out of my mind
And. . .

They're coming to take me away, HA HA
They're coming to take me away, HO HO HEE HEE HA HA
To the funny farm
Where life is beautiful all the time
And I'll be happy to see
Those nice, young men
In their clean, white coats
And they're coming to take me away, Ha-haaa!

You thought it was a joke
And so you laughed
You laughed when I had said
That losing you would make me flip my lid
Right. . .

You know you laughed, I heard you laugh
You laughed, you laughed and laughed
And then you left
But now you know I'm utterly mad!
And. . .

They're coming to take me away, HA HA
They're coming to take me away, HO HO HEE HEE HA HA
To the happy home
With trees and flowers and chirping birds
And basket weavers who sit and smile
And twiddle their thumbs and toes
And they're coming to take me away, Ha-haaa!

I cooked your food
I cleaned your house
And this is how you pay me back
For all my kind, unselfish loving deeds?!!
Hah. . .

Well you just wait
They'll find you yet
And when they do they'll
Put you in the ASPCA, you mangy mutt!
And. . .

They're coming to take me away, HA HA
They're coming to take me away, HO HO HEE HEE HA HA
To the funny farm
Where life is beautiful all the time
And I'll be happy to see
Those nice, young men
In their clean, white coats
And they're coming to take me away, Ha-haaa!

To the happy home
With trees and flowers and chirping birds
And basket weavers who sit and smile
And twiddle their thumbs and toes
And they're coming to take me away, Ha-haaa!

To the funny farm
Where life is beautiful all the time
And I'll be happy to see
Those nice, young men
In their clean, white coats
And they're coming to take me away, Ha-haaa!

WTF was that? lol