Brooks and the pitiful Stallworth deal
 

Despite having #2 at QB throwing to his invisible friends at the feet of and often 3 yards infield from actual receivers, Donte produced very well last year in his first full injury-free season. No Joe being hurt excuses, come on; Joe's slow now. He's Keyshawn without the attitude. So why should a Saints fan not be pretty pissed off that they gave him away?

I don't know what the hell Sean and Mickey were thinking. Donte could very well have been the key ingredient to getting us over the hump and into a believable playoff run THIS VERY SEASON. Our D is not inspiring fear, the O line is still a little makeshift, and Drew will have his rough spots (evidence: for about 30 minutes we were facing a loss, once again, to pathetic Green Bay). Can Reggie and Deuce really carry that much of the load all season long?

I don't care what kind of house-cleaning Payton wanted to do. Sure, Colston has been impressive, but let's not fool ourselves; he's no deep threat. Devery, well, Devery. And with Joe winding down and there being NO TE (unless you think that great completion to Campbell will be the rule rather than the clear aberration it was), well, I'm worried.

Here's my summation: Aaron made Donte look bad. Or at least, not as good as he really is. And as for attitude, we can clearly see what kind of team-first guy he is and wants to be: HE'S THE ANTI-T.O.! We needed that...his presence, the deep threat. We certainly did not need 3rd-stringer special-teamer Simoneau and Philly's late-round pick.

Then again that's just my opinion...I could be right.

RE: Brooks and the pitiful Stallworth deal
 

Devry = Donte' plus a 3rd rounder.

moved on......
 

While you are correct for thinking we should have gotten more for Stallworth, don't forget that this guy has suspect hands. When he goes on a dropping binge I won't be surprised. Although his positives probably outweigh his negatives. I think the Saints dumped him because this was his contract year, and they did not see a future with him in it. He is prone to nagging injuries at times, and besides, as good as he is he's not half as good as Reggie. Reggie seems to be functioning as a reciever right now and is doing it very well. Colston looks better than Stallworth ever did. Henderson looks to be at least as good a as Stallworth. His hands as well are a problem the Saints will have to contend with. He was much cheaper to keep.
A big reason Stallworth was let go was because of his attitude. He's a star in the making and he knows it, and probably felt he didn't have to give extra effort in camp, or felt he needed better treatment from the coaches. for this reason I am surprised he's gone and Horns not. At this stage he's much better than Joe Horn, and I read early on in camp that Horn was gettin into it with Payton! But I wasn't there so i'm not sure what really happened.
Maybe the coaching staff saw something in Stallworth we can't like his relationship with the other players on the team. who Knows?

I do. They were thinking let's get rid of a bad-character guy, an unprofessional player, who has never developed to his full potential in exchange for a player and a pick. I'm sure Payton was thinking "I don't have to play favorites with any of these guys like Haslett did, because I didn't draft them. I'm going to keep the guys who will make this team better." Have you seen anything that's happened this season? We've beaten two less-than-average teams, but we've still won: WITHOUT DONTE STALLWORTH. Was he talented? Yes. Was he right for this team? I don't think so. I fully support the trade. We traded him for a guy who's now starting at LB for us, and a 3rd round pick. That's great value for a guy who's never had more than 1000 receiving yards, even when he was the #1 WR on the team (last year). We've asked Devery and Marques to step up in his absence, and they've done it. Not to mention, we've lost a guy in Donte who didn't mesh with the coaches and had suspect character issues. Am I angry we lost Donte? No. We got a good deal, and I think he's always been overrated. He's never been anything more than a #2 WR, and by the looks of this team, we've got two younger guys who are going to be better than he was. He's got mediocre hands at best, and you can rant and rave about his "blazing speed" all you want, but Devery is probably just as fast, or faster. Not to mention, Devery has shown very impressive catching ability this season. Donte's doing well in Philadelphia right now, big whoop. This preseason he was given every chance to stay with this team, but all he did was drop passes and look average. Sure Marques might not run a 4.35 or whatever Donte does, but he catches the ball when it's thrown to him. He also seems to be a good kid who is going to buy into Payton's system.


First of all, don't get ahead of yourself with the playoff talk. We've beaten Cleveland and Green Bay. We haven't played a quality team yet. But anyways, even if we were right on the edge of going to the playoffs, do you think that having Donte Stallworth would push us over the top? Has he ever pushed this team over the top? No. Have Marques and Devery pushed us over the top in the last two games? Yeah, something like three TD receptions for those kids. Don't forget Marques is a rookie. We haven't seen his best yet. We have, however, seen Donte's best, and guess what, I'm not too impressed. Four full years in the league, never having gone over 1000 yards receiving. Wow, that's awesome. Four full years in the league never having posted more than 8 TDs in a season. Wow, that's real impressive. For two seasons, hasn't posted a catch longer than 45 yards. Wow, real deep threat there. There were 3 or 4 TEs that had longer catches than that last season. If you expected him just to turn to magic with this team because we got a new QB, think again, Stallworth never impressed during mini camp or the preseason.

Oh brother, this is great. No facts, no insight, just whimsical bashing of players. How about a little support for your argument? Like Donte is comparable to Ashley Lelie. :roll:



See, now I think you're just f***ing with me. The guy isn't a clubhouse cancer, but he is the kind of guy you don't want if you want to reach that next level. For f***'s sake, Joe Horn called him unprofessional, and that's coming from a guy who pulled a cell phone out of the field goal post. Also, late-round pick? Try first day-pick. Dumb.

You're not.

I'm sure he is sorry he did not consult with you first. The whole character more than characters approach has been made very clear as a priority by the new regime. I personally prefer that over having a bunch of indicted thugs like in Cincy. Either way, what counts even more to me is winning. So far, so good. I have seen more in this camp and two games (even disregarding the W-L record) than I have seen in years.

I don't care what Simoneau was in Philly. Here he has certainly proved himself as an immediate upgrade in the porous run D that suddenly looks at least average. Even if Hammerhead eventually replaces him he is a good depth guy having played every LB spot. He is supposedly a great special team guy though I have not noted his work there. I think we will be in a sweet spot with an improved record and multiple draft picks next spring too. You certainly would think Stallworth's performance would end up being a #3 at this point. That is not late. I think a #3 plus a LB that has had positive impact is exactly the market value for him. Javon Walker was a 2nd, Lelie a 3rd alone (essentially), so that would put him between those.

I was and still am a Donte fan. I think I do have an idea about some of Payton's principles and approach also. His may not be yours or my way of choice. He doesn't have to do it my way as long as I see continued progress as exemplified thusfar- and that is more than the wins and losses. 2-0 with wins like I haven't seen in years here however, sure silences my own ***** and moan ideas.

I agree with TheDeuce. I can't believe sheldogg said that Donte could get us over the hump,haha. You do understand that, although no one likes to admit it, we are a rebuilding team. We aren't on the level of Contending for the Super Bowl yet. We have played two games and won them both, so I don't see the point you are trying to make about needing Donte on this team. Sorry.

Man, even I am not ths upset over losing Donte, although I love seeing him do well. I will point out we have not gotten a 3rd round pick from the Eagles YET though. :P

Not "yet", but they'll sign him, and probably soon, and about two weeks later he'll pull his hammy. :)

He didn't produce - bottom line. The other receivers on the roster beat him out for his job.

He is playing great SO FAR. maybe this was the wake up call he needed. Talent was not the issue.

Sometimes, a change of scenery is all they need.

Remember, hype gets you the job - it doesn't keep it.

I think he has shown so far it's not all hype.
So as of this thread it's not a 3rd? Check. :P

Devry = Donte' and a 3rd. You'll see.

Stallworth= 4.37 forty time
Colston=4.43 forty time

Not that big of a difference in speed. Colston's way bigger with better hands, so let's not knock Payton for his decision just yet.

As for Donte.....I'm glad he's doing well, although his time here had soured. But.....as patdog posted in another thread.....who gives a f*** about Stallworth? He's not a Saint anymore!

I do, although I don't completely agree with the thread starter. I care about Stallworth, and I also am beginning to love Colston. You can do both.

Awwww.......you sure Donte can live with you loving Colston, too? :P JOKE! :D

As long as they keep getting in the endzone, i'll keep on loving 'em. :lol: I see Colston has got you d$%# whipped already. That's cute. :P :P

..you know... now that you put it that way... not that there's anything wrong with it :)

HaHaHa! That's funny! :? At least I see Colston has changed the minds of some of his doubters. :P Don't hate 'cause I called this one right. The last time I thought I pegged a talent (Phillip Buchanon in 2002), he turned out to not be so special. Yes....I wanted us to draft Buchanon over Stallworth. :? Of course, we did need a corner even then. :wink:

Doubters? Me? I just didn't know who the hell he was. That's not doubt, that's having no knowledge of him. Have you seen me speaking anything negative about him since I have SEEN him play? I think you are just a little to excited to have finally gotten something right before a lot of other people. :P :P j/k j/k

Don't forget that Reggie Bush being here also helped ease the oust of Donte. Reggie caught 5 balls on 3rd down and turned them into 1st downs.

Here is the thing that you are missing...Donte did not want to play here next year...everyone knows this is his contract year, and had we kept him, he walks away next year and we get nothing in return. Would you rather that? Are you one of the people who is upset we didnt trade Darren Howard last year when we had the chance and then watched him walk away without getting any compensation? The fact is, the got something for him, they thought they would be fine without him...and i agree with the move.

Are you talking to me, or the guy that started this thread?

Reggie in the receiving game is big for us. I love seeing him in the slot, or split wide. I just imagine him taking one of those to the house every time he gets it.

I have no problems with Donte. I don't really have any problems with the Eagles...as NFC East teams go, they're my favorite.

I think Donte is just irresponsible and probably did not do the things Payton wanted to see in camp. So....Payton found him expendable. I don't see any big deal with that.

I believe saintfan said it. He and Devery are the same guy. SEC guys, blazing speed and huge playmaker ability with an occasional drop that always seems to happen on third down. The drop by Devery on Sunday was vintage Donte....so was the touchdown. No need for 2 of those guys so you keep the younger cheaper guy and grab a vetaran and a pick.

I would not call it a great deal for the Saints, but I don't see it as a monumental screwup either. Call it a wash. Donte gets a fresh start and his clone steps up the depth chart.

I also don't see receiver as any sort of a problem for us right now. Colston is the type of guy we would have never seen during the Haz era. We now have a reliable Vet in Horn, an up and coming burner in DH, and a large, hard working rookie in Colston. Throw in Bush and I'm good. I like the diversity and I like the mix.

Good luck to Donte till he faces the Saints. I like seeing Colston and Henderson on the field. Just another clean slate that we may have needed.

And LK is dead on with the way this team is playing win or lose. They looked like the old stinkers in Q1, but the D and the composure on Sunday was fantastic. I have faith in Payton based on the intelligence of his comments and the squad he runs out there on Sunday. If Donte wasn't part of his vision for this team, I stand with that for at least a couple of years. I like what I see.

Shelldog? Are you sure that your name ain't Billy or GumboBC? You sound really familiar with all the Fumbles loving and the Donte' worship. Stallworth has "potential" He was ruined by Hazlett and Mike Riley as well as the dipsnit that we just beat in Green Bay. Mike (Carl Smith Clone) McCarthy. EWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!

I'm sorry...i can't hear you over the 2-0!

Donte would not have been here next year. Donte put up good numbers last year, but they were not #1 numbers - granted brooks was throwing to him. Payton was not enamored with donte whatsoever and we would never have made him an adequate offer to keep him here after this season and so they shopped him around and got a serviceable linebacker which has performed very well for us as well as a 3rd round pick next year. We have 3 - possibly 4 - starting rookies from our 7 picks last year and so far I believe we got 9 picks for the upcoming year. I wont question payton anymore until the things he does stops working out so well for us.

Huge game coming up....could be our coming out party. There has never been a homefield advantage of this sort in the history of the NFL i would say, and with all eyes upon us (this will be the most highly rated cable program ever) we will become the feel-good story and media darlings of the world - even the middle east thanks to Al-Jazeera. Dallas will have to hand over its title as America's team.

I wish Donte all the luck in the world and love to see him doing wwell except when they play us. I think it was a win-win situation for all involved, but it would have been nice to get more for him than a 3rd...but had he played for us the way hes played so far this year we would have gotten more....we got more than fair deal for what he was worth at the time. You draft on talent, but you trade on stats.

I can actually agree with some of the things sheldogg said (or at least see where he's coming from), but someone earlier pretty much covered it... Donte wasn't going to be back with us next season. And it's about damn time we didn't let a player walk away and not get any type of compensation. Love Donte and I hope he explodes in Philly... just not against us.

I was always one of Donte's biggest supporters, and even though he had a good year last year, I guess the admin. was concerned with his willingness to play hurt.

Thanks for all your candor fellas...

Just two quick points. First, the dropped passes were largely because (and I'm not just kidding here) Donte was shocked that Aaron hit him in the hands OR it was a 90 mph zinger on a 6 yard slant route or a little fade. Brooks did make Stallworth look bad.

And second, I am thrilled that we've beaten two teams we should have beaten and did it loking good and coming from behind in the Green Bay game. But I'm not sold on Payyton's decision making and whatever influence he has over Mickey this offseason. Why do we have no TEs? And why does everyone have to fall in step to the Jarhead theme right away or be shipped off for nothing? Sure Donte was likely gone next year...but it would be great to have him now.

Devery does NOT = Donte. Sorry. His routes look wild and he dropped a higher percentage of balls. I know Donte has a couple years on him, but BS. And the 3rd round pick you all think is in the bag? Why? Half of you think Donte's inconsistent and won't perform well enough to earn us that high a pick.

Welcome sheldogg.
Ouch!
Keep posting man.
Things will get better as your skin thickens.
Tough crowd around here sometimes.

Thanks for the sentiment.

In case you haven't already answered Rocky - where in the reagion are you from? I'm looking for Saints fans in the SLC area.

Your question of why has already been answered. Donte this year means nothing next year. He would have been gone 99.9% with nothing to show for him but perhaps an extra win maybe, and the delayed development of those that would then be taking his place. And what would they have learned...how to coast in practice, be a distraction to your team, and how to put personal ego ahead of the team.

Instead we (a team in transition and development....not a team on the verge of contending for deep playoff status) have an extra year to develop our WR depth in Colston and Devery, have additional depth at LBer, where we were weak and shallow, and an extra pick (be it 3rd or 4th round) next year.

My opinion is we won this move. I'm sorry if you don't see it. If you think Donte suddenly makes us a powerhouse juggernaut in comparison to who we are without him I think it's delusional.

agreed, Dante would have put up numbers with us but he was lookin for a big payday that he wouldn't have found. it was good to have got what we did now intead of gettin nothin at the end of the season.

Donte's toughness was in question. His route running was in question. His willingness to play for our team was in question. Joe Horn has stated publically that he "failed" Donte'. WTF?

I'm no Donte' hater, but Devry most certainly does = Donte. Let's see if he's dropping as many passes after 5 years, continues to run crappy routes after 5 years, takes every other game (or every other half so far this year) off, etc, etc.

Yessir, Devry = Donte + a (potential, for Whodi) 3rd rounder + LB Depth (thanks guys I was leaving that out) and a LOT less cash our of our pocket to boot. I happen to think that 3rd round pick is "in the bag" because Philly needs him more than they don't. You'll see...

the trade that just won't die
:crazy:

If you want to stir the pot, I'll say releasing Dwight Smith for nothing was a whole lot worse of a deal than the Donte trade. I think we should have gotten a 6th or 7th.

Sheldogg, I never knew Donte was considered the crispest route runner himself. And I don't know that you can really say Devery drops a higher % of balls when he hasn't had the reps. As I said earlier, Sunday's game was a perfect Devery=Donte moment. A big drop on third and a big TD catch. Not fighting you on it, I just don't see this as a huge issue.

I hate to constantly agree with LK, but he is right again about the smith deal.

I think this about sums it up (from Lumm0x).

I again am not as upset over losing donte as sheldogg, but some things that have been said are "opinion" being passed off as fact.

a) Devery in no way equals Donte. Preposterous. Devery barely played WR at LSU and was VERY raw coming into the pros. He is barely seeing the field even now. And being an LSU homer, I want to see great things from Devery. But Donte is better than him. Easily.

b) This Donte drop stuff is pure nonsense and fabricated. YES he dropped a lot of balls last year, but who on this team DID NOT perform beloew expectations last year. Donte takes all the blame? Unreal. The #s he was able to put up on THIS TEAM last year were pretty good. Before last year, not one year did Donte lead this team in drops. So that lame excuse needs to go.

c) As sheldogg said, Donte had to put up with AB at QB. AB got progressivly more single focused on Horn as the years went on. Donte didn't set the Saints rookie record for TD catches, while MISSING half the games cause he sucks. Dude is talented. He was just as inconsistent as his QB though, cause of his QB. I don't know how many times Donte was wide open downfield only to see Brooks make a poor throw to a double covered Horn or some such. Not really all Donte's fault.

d) Where is anyone getting this "Donte wasn't gonna be here next year" stuff? Did he say that? IS there one article with Donte saying that? We are FLUSH with cap room, which will only grow next year. Did Donte say he wanted a huge pay-day, or are people ASSUMING that's what Donte was gonna want? Let's stick to facts.

e) I am AT LEAST glad we got something for him, and didn't let him walk for nothing, ala Bentley, Howard, Dwight Smith..... I have no problem at all with that. I'll still support Donte and hope he goes to the pro bowl, until the game he plays us. I wouldn't even mind if he did well then as long as we won. But there's no reason to hate on the dude. Like I said, I am not in full agreement with sheldogg, but some of this "opinion" need not be passed off as facts.

And one thing I do agree with sheldoog on is, if Donte is such a poor route runner, poor locker room player, and has such poor character, and drops so many balls, WHY would the Eagles extend him? Didn't they have enough of the WR character thing with TO? So basically we would have a 4th rounder right? If you are gonna knock donte, might as well stick to calling that pick we got a 4th, cause no way the Eagles allow another receiver to mess up their team.

Hey, I like Donte, but he does drop alot of balls. He dropped 2 in the first Philly game.
I believe he led the league in drops last year with 11.

Interesting point :|


I don't think Devery is as good as Donte. Yes, Devery is raw and Donte started his pro career with a bang. But he really came into his own last year.

Devery pretty much never saw the field his first season because of his rawness, and so, this his third season is more like Donte's second.

They are the same size, almost exactly. They are both SEC guys. They are both burners with electric speed and moves. They both drop easy catches from time to time. Donte is a bit more injury prone (which he shook last year) but came out of college as a more seasoned receiver. They have both received some level of criticism from coaches for their focus and/or work habits. Devery for his dropsies in practice/route running and Donte for some tardiness issues.

Aside from that, they have nothing in common.

No he didn't lead the league. Lamont Jordan did. but Muhsin Muhammed, Eddie Kennison Chad Johnson, Antonio Gates, all were right there with Donte. There's also this part you forgot to quote:

So I guess one year out of 5 could prove that point. I don't think so though.

Also, here's your drop leaders with Donte:

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/...=232&Submit=Go

Let's look at the names: Braylon Edwards, Reggie bush, Reggie Wayne, Larry Fitz, Troy williamson, Jason Witten. Donte and Reggie are the only ones first time in anew system. Did Donte even play in the pre-season? So again, we can dump this whole "drops" thing.

Superficial.

superficial.

Iahven't seen Devery's moves, have you? I have seen Donte take a 5 yard slant to the house more than once early in his career. He started the river city relay by breaking 3 tackles. Devery, um no. Scratch that.
So does every receiver in the league outside of Marvin Harrison and Torry Holt.

Actually, Donte shook that 2 years ago. He has played in all 16 the last two years. And yes he did come out of college more season. Another non-similarity.

So has Mike Williams in Detroit, Reggie Williams in Jacksonville, Troy Williamson in Minnesota, Michael Jenkins in Atlanta, etc. etc. etc. I guess they are all the same.

Hmm, not similar at all. Got it. Oh, outside the size and SEC thing. I guess they are both the same player as Troy Williamson. I wonder how many SEC guys around the same size with speed we can call Donte.