***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

I think he is, this is a rookie who is just trying to learn how things are done in the NFL , IMO I give him a little more slack.
Today when we really needed a score I saw Deuce on the sidelines for a few plays while Bush was on the filed, shouldn't it have been the other way around?
Don't get me wrong, I love that we drafted Bush but just feel we're asking a little to much of him this early on..
He will one day though be sick in the NFL, just not right now..

RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

I agree that we should have had Deuce in the game instead of Bush on several key plays. Bush hurt us more than helped today. The fumble in Carolina territory & the -15 yard punt return really took the wind out of our sails. I like the guy, but he looks better as a receiver so far. He's got the speed, but NFL defenses are not going to let him hit the corners......and Deuce is a much better between the tackles runner. By the way..... the NFL's offensive rookie of the year will be a Saint, but it ain't gonna' be Reggie. :wink: Go Colston!!!!! :D

Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

Reggie will be a great runner. He just needs to become more disciplined and take what the D gives him. And that will come in time. This is only his 4th game and all 22 eyes on D are on him at all times. It's kind of hard for him to make a huge impact just yet given those factors. Colston on the other hand has flown under the radar even after these 4 games. And then he's pretty talented for an NFL reciever on top of that. Its not fair to compare the two.

RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

Why? They're both rookies aren't they? Do you really think that after the 1st two games, he was still flying under the radar? Is that why Atlanta had their best corner (D. Hall) on him for most of the game? Do you think Carolina wasn't worried about him after all the media hype about him being the best rookie receiver in the league? I'm not dogging Bush.....he's talented. He has yet to show me, though, that he can run between the tackles consistently in the NFL. He's been dropped alot by arm tackles inside. Deuce runs through those.

RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

Since Devery was out they should've use Bush to play that position and leave deuce in the Game. Our Defense was out of gas 2nd half cuz they didn't have good rotation since Willie Whitehead was out. They need stick more with Deuce espically to keep Will Smith & Grant fresh to rush the passer.

RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

Colston will be Rookie of the year IMO,
No one knew he'd be this good because he wouldn't have got draft in the 7th, he's playing as though he was a first round pick..

RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

Deuce has got to stop running towards the sidelines, he just will not make the turns in the NFL as he did when he played for USC, not going to happen, put some weight on him and let him run threw the tackles, he'll be fine it will just take time for him, he's a rookie.

Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

Oh....someone (hint, hint) knew he'd be that good. :P

Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

Let me guess gandhi, you guessed it? :o

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

Now if we can just hurry up & extend that little 3 year contract we signed him to. :?

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

Reggie's going to get his first touchdown next week. Yeah, I know it's pretty much a no brainer but I'm just going by how my bones feel. I don't know if Payton is pushing him too hard since Colston has proven he's consistent and does a great job protecting the ball. So I dunno if Payton's THAT frustrated with Bush, but Reggie's got to feel like he thinks everyone is looking at him waiting for him to prove himself. He had a bad game today. I wonder how much he's working under his own instincts and it hasn't quite worked out for him yet or if he's not doing what he's being told to do. I mean, the sideline, sideline, sideline route is really becoming doing something the same way 99 times and expecting a different outcome the 100th time. Or will it eventually work in the NFL?

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

" I mean, the sideline, sideline, sideline route is really becoming doing something the same way 99 times and expecting a different outcome the 100th time. Or will it eventually work in the NFL"

it will never work in the NFL, it may work from time to time.

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

That's what I thought. Why does he keep doing it?

I guess that's a rhetorical question. I'm just a little frustrated and it seems like Old Saints to not do something different and there was a lot of run-run-pass today towards the beginning.

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

I was just thinking about how strange it would be if the 4th player from the end of the draft won the ROY award instead of Bush.

How crazy would that be?

Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

Well of course Deuce is a more polished runner then Reggie he has 6 years in the league. Not all rookie RBs take to the NFL game immediately. He was so successful doing things his own way in college that it's very tough for him to adjust his game to the NFL level this quickly. All he needs to learn is patience. That's it. He has all of the physical tools to run between the tackles. Crap if Warrick Dunn, who's all of 180 lbs can pound it through the tackles there's no reason why Reggie can't.

Bush is still the most talented player on our team. I think you're understating his importance to the offense because you don't see it in his numbers. He's an enabler. He enables the other players on our offense to take advantage of favorable matchups. He enables openings for Deuce, Horn and yes even Colston. I'm not taking anything away from any of them, but there's NO WAY our offense is this successful without Bush garnering so much attention all game.

Oh and I'll check the recording but I'm pretty sure D. Hall was on Horn most of the game. Colston is a great talent and I'm glad he's on our side, but Bush has been just as valuable to our team as Colston. He just doesn't have the TDs.

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

Reggie has to learn from his mistakes..... Next week is were he makes his big break..... IMO Laurence Maroney deserves the ROY.... 1 more thing...... reggie has to understand this is NFL not college....

I'm thinking Bush will get his first TD against the Bucs Sunday, how sweet that will be at home in front of the Saint fans.

The Lombardi Packers made a living and won 3 championships on that "sideline to sideline" run. It's called a sweep. And to be successful, it needs some sort of blocking, the kind of blocking that gave Desghaun Foster the hole to score the late TD for the Panthers.

I see it as a combination of 2 things:
1.- Reggie trying to do too much - as in trying to go for huge plays rather than taking what the defense gives him.
2.- The line not opening the holes/relying too much on Reggie's ability.

Deuce can plow through the line when there isn't a hole, Reggie can't. DeAngelo Williams is about the same size as Reggie and he got some good runs through the middle because the Panthers o-line opened holes for him.

Now, I AM NOT DOGGING THE SAINTS O-LINE! Considering that these guys just started playing together this season, ansd most of them starting for the first time, they have done a great job. But they are going to need a little more playing time together to get to the point when they can create holes for the type of RB Reggie is. Not playing on the road against defenses like Carolina when Carolina needs to win to keep up with the divisional race would greatly help also :)

Reggie needs to learn to cut north and south not east and west. you do that in the secondary.

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

They don't give the award for ROY to the player who enabled the most.

It's a results oriented award.

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

I've seen Reggie run "through the Tackles" more than plenty of times to know he can do it. Let's get off the tired ole cliches already. He picks up 6-10 yards running up the middle, when he gets adequate blocking. Give him a break, it's not all his fault. Deuce is just more experienced and knows how to make something out of nothing, Reggie hasn't gotten to that point yet.

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?**
 

More important things to worry about for an athlete than winning "Awards"

This is a team oriented sport.

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?**
 

Who said anything about Rookie of the year? I couldn't care less if he gets rookie of the year or not. As long as he helps to keep the offense productive does it really matter? That doesn't change his importance to this team if he doesn't become ROY. He's still highly important.

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to har
 

once reggie gets his first touch down he will be fine. right now he is just trying way too hard to bust the big one. his first touchdown will do a lot to calm him down.

i would like to see payton call more up the middle runs for reggie and tell him just to drive to the hole and make his moves once he gets to the other side.

Or the missed tackles that helped it to happen. Either way. :wink:

And the plays Reggie are running to the outside, aren't sweeps. They are Reggie trying to make the corner in the NFL. If they were sweeps, there's be blockers in front on at least some of them. But they aren't. It's usually Reggie in space dancing. I'd feel better if we ran more stretch type plays for him, like Indy used to run for Edge James. Just kinda have the linemen block on an angle and let Reggie choose a hole, but staying close to the LOS. I also don't think though we will run effectively until we take shots deep to back off the safeties and LBs. That could be another issue.

Please, don't let the facts get in the way of an excellent post. :bananajoy:

Ok TD

I agree that the team is more important than the individual, but, they still hand out individual awards at the end of the season. Wouldn't you like for 1 of our rookies to be recognized as being the best in the league?

and as for GoldRush...

Slow down there Goldie... If you go back a page, LongTimeFan made the comment that Colston coulld be in contention for ROY. I agree with him. If he doesn't get the award at the end of the season, you're right, it doesn't diminsh his importance to the team. However, would it be so bad for him to be recognized for his contributions to his team as a rookie?

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

I think Bush's only problem is that he dances too much. When he realizes he needs to hit the holes when they are there he'll be fine.

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: ***Is Payton pushing Bush to hard?***
 

I think Bush's problem is that he's a rookie. Even after four games, there's a tremendous "pace of the game" difference and he's still getting used to a differen playbook and set of blockers. He looks incredibly comfortable running screens and underneath passes, and it has the advantage of getting him in space AND making him more effective as a decoy. As good as he's been for the offense, things can only get better for him and the rest of the offense. The first time the opposing defense doesn't respect his ability will be the first time he scores. Colston has been oustanding, but Reggie's abilities are opening things up for everyone else.

Well I was talking about Bush, not Colston. Colston only entered the conversation because of ghandi. My point was that Bush's helping this team to open up its offense is more important than individual accolades. Colston stands a good chance to be ROY, but I believe his success is owed in part to the attention that Bush recieves on every play.