Article from Blackandgold.net

Cooky591 · 05-27-2003, 11:02 PM

I just got finished this week's Saints Edge. I am a firm believer that having a great pass rush will help with the secondary. Forcing QB's to make decisions quicker will help the CB's and S make more plays. Now, I am only 23, and having been watching football for about 15 years. Now, to say that past few Super Bowl Team teams have relied on their lines and lB's for the past few years is crazy. Just to name some of the past few CB's to play in the "big dance": Barber, Kelly(led the league in int's), Woodson, Law, Smith, A. Williams, McAllister, Starks, Sehorn(when he was still top-notch), Lyght(when he was still kicking), Walker, Rolle. Whe these players where in the Super Bowl, they were widely considered to be in the top 10 at their positions. The best DL at the same times were: Sapp, Rice, Adams?, Seymour?, Winstrom? Strahan, Carter and Kearse. I put the question marks because some probably would not consider them as high as I do. Throw out the Ravens and Buc's, because they both had unreal defenses, and the majority of the strength was in the secondary, especially the CB's. The LB's have been great, but the strength was in the whole unit, same with the DL. There always seems to be a playmaker at CB or at Safety. Of course I very well could be wrong, it is just my opiniom

ejc0921 · 05-28-2003, 08:31 AM

I good front seven sure makes the secondarys work a lot easier. Converesly, a good secondary makes it easier for the QB to get sacked since they are all over their man. Hopefully this year, we can have the best of both worlds on the defense.

BillyCarpenter1 · 05-28-2003, 08:36 AM

Hey Cooky591, if you were a quarterback would you loose sleep at night because you were going to face 2 good cornerbacks or the 85\' Chicago Bears denfense who sacked the quarterback every other play? Name all the great denfenses of the past and the D-line made them what they were, not the cornerbacks.

tweeky · 05-28-2003, 09:35 AM

Hey Cooky591, if you were a quarterback would you loose sleep at night because you were going to face 2 good cornerbacks or the 85\' Chicago Bears denfense who sacked the quarterback every other play? Name all the great denfenses of the past and the D-line made them what they were, not the cornerbacks.

You hit the nail on the head. There have been many so called great CB\'s who swapped teams and flopped. The front seven has more to do with the defenses success than the DB\'s. Adequate DB\'s with a great front 7 is much better than an adequate front 7 and great DB\'s.

The Dome patrol era defense was an awesome front 7 with decent DB\'s.

Haz and company made the right choice with a stud DT (Sullivan) instead of a shut-down corner.

You could have the best 4 DB\'s in all the NFL, and if you give the Offense 2-3 extra seconds, even a 40 year old Rodney Peete would pick them apart.
Oh yea, he did!

But if you give the QB 1-2 LESS seconds, even Joe Montana in his prime would get slaughtered.

Also, a weak front seven usually translates to 2nd and short all day. Your DB\'s are helpless. A strong front 7 translates to 3rd and long, and about 2 seconds to throw the ball before a DT or LB slams his helmet into your chest.

AHHH can\'t you just see Darren Howard nailing Brad Johnson in his little bird chest at about mach-5. Ball flies into the air and one of our big fatties snags it and trots about 35 yards into the end zone before passing out from exhaustion... YEA!!!!

Damn, I gotta go hit somebody, I\'ll be back later....

[Edited on 28/5/2003 by tweeky]

BlackandBlue · 05-28-2003, 09:45 AM

There have been many so called good CB\'s who swapped teams and flopped. The front seven has more to do with the defenses success than the DB\'s. Adequate DB\'s with a great front 7 is much better than an adequate front 7 and good DB\'s.

Although I agree that the front seven is more significant than the DB\'s, I had to correct your post. When I think of great cornerbacks, I think of shutdown cornerbacks. And a shutdown cornerback is a shutdown cornerback, doesn\'t matter what team he plays for. Example- Deion Sanders. I can\'t stand the guy, but I can\'t dismiss what he did in coverage. It pissed me off when he said he wouldn\'t tackle, but he was a shutdown corner- didn\'t matter if he was a Falcon, 49er, or a Cowboy. Darrell Green was the same way. He didn\'t play with the same defense his entire career, yet you knew when you played the Skins that you couldn\'t throw to the left side of the field without putting yourself in danger, no matter what decade it was.

tweeky · 05-28-2003, 10:11 AM

There have been many so called good CB\'s who swapped teams and flopped. The front seven has more to do with the defenses success than the DB\'s. Adequate DB\'s with a great front 7 is much better than an adequate front 7 and good DB\'s.

Although I agree that the front seven is more significant than the DB\'s, I had to correct your post. When I think of great cornerbacks, I think of shutdown cornerbacks. And a shutdown cornerback is a shutdown cornerback, doesn\'t matter what team he plays for. Example- Deion Sanders. I can\'t stand the guy, but I can\'t dismiss what he did in coverage. It pissed me off when he said he wouldn\'t tackle, but he was a shutdown corner- didn\'t matter if he was a Falcon, 49er, or a Cowboy. Darrell Green was the same way. He didn\'t play with the same defense his entire career, yet you knew when you played the Skins that you couldn\'t throw to the left side of the field without putting yourself in danger, no matter what decade it was.

Ahh, the Deion response. Very good points, but he was an absolute freak of nature. Its much easier to build a solid front seven, than find another Deion. For every Deion that comes along, theres a 100 Alex Moldens. I\'ll take a can\'t miss DT over a can\'t miss CB anyday. A shut-down corner disrupts 1 guy on Offense. A stud DT can disrupt the whole Offense on both run plays and pass plays.

Don\'t misunderstand me, I\'d love to have both, and it appears there will be many CB\'s to choose from next year in the draft AND free agency.

I just think we\'re better off as a team shoreing up the front 7 before acquiring a shutdown CB, Especially in our division.

I\'m sure TB, ATL and Car wish we had drafted a CB instead of Sullivan.

[Edited on 28/5/2003 by tweeky]

BlackandBlue · 05-28-2003, 10:20 AM

Not arguing that a good DT is more formidable on defense. Defensive backs only play the run when they have to (ie the tailback has already made it into the secondary or on blitz packages). However, due to the lack of legit shutdown corners in this league, I\'ll take the can\'t miss CB over the can\'t miss DT every time. For every can\'t miss CB, I can name you three can\'t miss DT\'s. And, yes, I\'m a greedy little bastard that wants it all :P
On a side note, after seeing the CB class of 2004, I\'ve changed my ways, and am now happy that the Saints drafted Sullivan over Trufant. Yes, you are reading this correctly, the man that nearly cried when the announcement was made and lashed out at everyone who argued the point, has now <gasp> changed his opinion. Hey, the sun shines on a dog\'s ass every now and then. :P

[Edited on 28/5/2003 by BlackandBlue]

BillyCarpenter1 · 05-28-2003, 10:25 AM

BlackandBlue. Your not seriously saying that more high prospect corners coming out of college make a bigger impact in the NFL than high prospect DT\'s are you? Come on now......

BlackandBlue · 05-28-2003, 10:34 AM

Big difference in high prospect corners and a legitimate shutdown corner. Smoot was a high prospect corner who is nowhere near being referred to as a shutdown corner.
Not that we had a play at him in the draft, because he was gone by the time we picked, but Newman may be the real deal, and the first of what I refer to as a \"legitimate shutdown corner\" in several years. From what I\'ve heard out of the mini camps is that he naturally gravitates towards the ball, like it\'s automatic. They\'ve moved Derek Ross over to right side, and it is expected that Newman will roll right into the left side corner position (which is where you put your best corner) by the start of training camp. You don\'t do this with just any rookie corner, unless your corners are the worst in the league, and Dallas already has a pair of good corners.

BillyCarpenter1 · 05-28-2003, 10:43 AM

BlackandBlue, I beleive you said for every can\'t miss corner you could name 3 can\'t miss DT\'s. I\'m assuming you meant that there were more corners that make an impact than DT\'s. Is there something that I\'m missing? Pleazzzzzzze let me know.

05-27-2003, 11:02 PM	#1
Cooky591 Registered Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 63	Article from Blackandgold.net I just got finished this week's Saints Edge. I am a firm believer that having a great pass rush will help with the secondary. Forcing QB's to make decisions quicker will help the CB's and S make more plays. Now, I am only 23, and having been watching football for about 15 years. Now, to say that past few Super Bowl Team teams have relied on their lines and lB's for the past few years is crazy. Just to name some of the past few CB's to play in the "big dance": Barber, Kelly(led the league in int's), Woodson, Law, Smith, A. Williams, McAllister, Starks, Sehorn(when he was still top-notch), Lyght(when he was still kicking), Walker, Rolle. Whe these players where in the Super Bowl, they were widely considered to be in the top 10 at their positions. The best DL at the same times were: Sapp, Rice, Adams?, Seymour?, Winstrom? Strahan, Carter and Kearse. I put the question marks because some probably would not consider them as high as I do. Throw out the Ravens and Buc's, because they both had unreal defenses, and the majority of the strength was in the secondary, especially the CB's. The LB's have been great, but the strength was in the whole unit, same with the DL. There always seems to be a playmaker at CB or at Safety. Of course I very well could be wrong, it is just my opiniom
Cooky591 Registered Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 63

05-28-2003, 08:31 AM	#2
ejc0921 Rookie Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 26	Article from Blackandgold.net I good front seven sure makes the secondarys work a lot easier. Converesly, a good secondary makes it easier for the QB to get sacked since they are all over their man. Hopefully this year, we can have the best of both worlds on the defense.
ejc0921 Rookie Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 26

05-28-2003, 08:36 AM	#3
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Article from Blackandgold.net Hey Cooky591, if you were a quarterback would you loose sleep at night because you were going to face 2 good cornerbacks or the 85\' Chicago Bears denfense who sacked the quarterback every other play? Name all the great denfenses of the past and the D-line made them what they were, not the cornerbacks.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

05-28-2003, 09:35 AM	#4
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Article from Blackandgold.net Hey Cooky591, if you were a quarterback would you loose sleep at night because you were going to face 2 good cornerbacks or the 85\' Chicago Bears denfense who sacked the quarterback every other play? Name all the great denfenses of the past and the D-line made them what they were, not the cornerbacks. You hit the nail on the head. There have been many so called great CB\'s who swapped teams and flopped. The front seven has more to do with the defenses success than the DB\'s. Adequate DB\'s with a great front 7 is much better than an adequate front 7 and great DB\'s. The Dome patrol era defense was an awesome front 7 with decent DB\'s. Haz and company made the right choice with a stud DT (Sullivan) instead of a shut-down corner. You could have the best 4 DB\'s in all the NFL, and if you give the Offense 2-3 extra seconds, even a 40 year old Rodney Peete would pick them apart. Oh yea, he did! But if you give the QB 1-2 LESS seconds, even Joe Montana in his prime would get slaughtered. Also, a weak front seven usually translates to 2nd and short all day. Your DB\'s are helpless. A strong front 7 translates to 3rd and long, and about 2 seconds to throw the ball before a DT or LB slams his helmet into your chest. AHHH can\'t you just see Darren Howard nailing Brad Johnson in his little bird chest at about mach-5. Ball flies into the air and one of our big fatties snags it and trots about 35 yards into the end zone before passing out from exhaustion... YEA!!!! Damn, I gotta go hit somebody, I\'ll be back later.... [Edited on 28/5/2003 by tweeky]
	Whether we agree or disagree; its all for Him.

05-28-2003, 09:45 AM	#5
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Article from Blackandgold.net There have been many so called good CB\'s who swapped teams and flopped. The front seven has more to do with the defenses success than the DB\'s. Adequate DB\'s with a great front 7 is much better than an adequate front 7 and good DB\'s. Although I agree that the front seven is more significant than the DB\'s, I had to correct your post. When I think of great cornerbacks, I think of shutdown cornerbacks. And a shutdown cornerback is a shutdown cornerback, doesn\'t matter what team he plays for. Example- Deion Sanders. I can\'t stand the guy, but I can\'t dismiss what he did in coverage. It pissed me off when he said he wouldn\'t tackle, but he was a shutdown corner- didn\'t matter if he was a Falcon, 49er, or a Cowboy. Darrell Green was the same way. He didn\'t play with the same defense his entire career, yet you knew when you played the Skins that you couldn\'t throw to the left side of the field without putting yourself in danger, no matter what decade it was.
	The waiting drove me mad.... I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik?

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05-28-2003, 10:11 AM	#6
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Article from Blackandgold.net There have been many so called good CB\'s who swapped teams and flopped. The front seven has more to do with the defenses success than the DB\'s. Adequate DB\'s with a great front 7 is much better than an adequate front 7 and good DB\'s. Although I agree that the front seven is more significant than the DB\'s, I had to correct your post. When I think of great cornerbacks, I think of shutdown cornerbacks. And a shutdown cornerback is a shutdown cornerback, doesn\'t matter what team he plays for. Example- Deion Sanders. I can\'t stand the guy, but I can\'t dismiss what he did in coverage. It pissed me off when he said he wouldn\'t tackle, but he was a shutdown corner- didn\'t matter if he was a Falcon, 49er, or a Cowboy. Darrell Green was the same way. He didn\'t play with the same defense his entire career, yet you knew when you played the Skins that you couldn\'t throw to the left side of the field without putting yourself in danger, no matter what decade it was. Ahh, the Deion response. Very good points, but he was an absolute freak of nature. Its much easier to build a solid front seven, than find another Deion. For every Deion that comes along, theres a 100 Alex Moldens. I\'ll take a can\'t miss DT over a can\'t miss CB anyday. A shut-down corner disrupts 1 guy on Offense. A stud DT can disrupt the whole Offense on both run plays and pass plays. Don\'t misunderstand me, I\'d love to have both, and it appears there will be many CB\'s to choose from next year in the draft AND free agency. I just think we\'re better off as a team shoreing up the front 7 before acquiring a shutdown CB, Especially in our division. I\'m sure TB, ATL and Car wish we had drafted a CB instead of Sullivan. [Edited on 28/5/2003 by tweeky]
	Whether we agree or disagree; its all for Him.

05-28-2003, 10:20 AM	#7
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Article from Blackandgold.net Not arguing that a good DT is more formidable on defense. Defensive backs only play the run when they have to (ie the tailback has already made it into the secondary or on blitz packages). However, due to the lack of legit shutdown corners in this league, I\'ll take the can\'t miss CB over the can\'t miss DT every time. For every can\'t miss CB, I can name you three can\'t miss DT\'s. And, yes, I\'m a greedy little bastard that wants it all :P On a side note, after seeing the CB class of 2004, I\'ve changed my ways, and am now happy that the Saints drafted Sullivan over Trufant. Yes, you are reading this correctly, the man that nearly cried when the announcement was made and lashed out at everyone who argued the point, has now <gasp> changed his opinion. Hey, the sun shines on a dog\'s ass every now and then. :P [Edited on 28/5/2003 by BlackandBlue]
	The waiting drove me mad.... I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik?

05-28-2003, 10:25 AM	#8
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Article from Blackandgold.net BlackandBlue. Your not seriously saying that more high prospect corners coming out of college make a bigger impact in the NFL than high prospect DT\'s are you? Come on now......
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

05-28-2003, 10:34 AM	#9
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Article from Blackandgold.net Big difference in high prospect corners and a legitimate shutdown corner. Smoot was a high prospect corner who is nowhere near being referred to as a shutdown corner. Not that we had a play at him in the draft, because he was gone by the time we picked, but Newman may be the real deal, and the first of what I refer to as a \"legitimate shutdown corner\" in several years. From what I\'ve heard out of the mini camps is that he naturally gravitates towards the ball, like it\'s automatic. They\'ve moved Derek Ross over to right side, and it is expected that Newman will roll right into the left side corner position (which is where you put your best corner) by the start of training camp. You don\'t do this with just any rookie corner, unless your corners are the worst in the league, and Dallas already has a pair of good corners.
	The waiting drove me mad.... I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik?

05-28-2003, 10:43 AM	#10
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Article from Blackandgold.net BlackandBlue, I beleive you said for every can\'t miss corner you could name 3 can\'t miss DT\'s. I\'m assuming you meant that there were more corners that make an impact than DT\'s. Is there something that I\'m missing? Pleazzzzzzze let me know.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209