just imagine
 

if we wouldn't have come out and stunk up the joint vs. baltimore, we'd be 7-1 and tied for home field advantage throughout the playoffs, thus far throughout this season.... for all of those that said that loss was "ok", it was a "good loss", it wasn't a big deal, well.... guess we'll have to settle for 6-2..... we'll get some help next week with either the bears or the giants losing, but we have to take care of business first and then hope that later on in the season they can start losing some more games....

RE: just imagine
 

we're in good position for home field, but again, we have to take care of our business and have more games like this past weekend and less like the baltimore game.... our schedule, at second glance, is favorable to winning 4 or 5 of our last 8 games.... i think that atlanta and carolina, for now, would be losses to me and we'll drop one other game that will infuriate me to the brink, but still i will not give up on 'em, like i've been accused of in the past... the next couple of weeks should tell the tale for wash and dallas, as far as their approach for the rest of the season....

Re: just imagine
 

Well let's dream a bit, shall we?

The Saints are rooting for the Giants in the Bears matchup. We play the Giants. We do not play the Bears. Under the presumption that we beat the Giants, they'll effectively be 2 games behind us since we win the head to head tiebreaker.

You may laugh, but a potention trap game for the Bears may also be, dare I say it?, Tampa Bay. Grossman has been exposed as a QB who makes mistakes when he is rattled. So even though the TB defensive backfield scheme is soft, if the front 7 gets after you like Arizona and Miami did, and hopefully the Giants will, Grossman may make enough mistakes to make the game interesting.

Of course the Bears still have New England on their schedule too.

At the end of the day, the Saints worst problem is their own schedule. We're lucky that the AFC North has seemed to have fallen off. Both the Bengals and the Steelers, who seemed formidable at the beginning of the season, seem to both have soft exploitable defenses now. Both Palmer and Rothlisburger seem to be mistake prone. It takes a lot more to rattle Brees, though the Baltimore game shows that it can be done.

We still have to finish the NFC East. Both Dallas and Washington seem to be up and down, worldbeaters one week, chumps the next. Finally we have to finish up against the rest of our division, with a sweep of the Falcons and a split with Carolina critical to secure the division. We have them both in our rearview, and in those games we need to make sure they stay there.

I predict that the NFC #1 seed is going to end up 13-3 or 12-4 with it possibly coming to a tiebreaker. For the Bears to get there, losses against the Giants, NE, or possibly TB, need to occur.

So I agree we need to handle our business. We also need to learn to be productive against tough defenses, which is our achillies heel this season.

Just some dreaming...

SFIAH

Re: RE: just imagine
 

Well that's simply not going to cut it. 11-5 or 10-6 may win you the division, depending on where those wins fall. But you'll be a #3 or a #4 seed and be travelling to a divisional game in January to either New York or Chicago.

You have to critically analyze the Baltimore game. Simply put 5 turnovers equals a loss. That's the end of the discussion. But let's look at those turnovers:

1) Bush Fumble: it happens. It happened in the middle of the field. That score belongs to the defense.

2) Bush Interception: Stupid play call. Bad rookie judgement. So let's blame that one on the combo of a rookie coach (though not a rookie playcaller) and a rookie players. Let's presume that neither Payton nor Bush will repeat their mistakes.

3) Stecker interception for Pick-6. Yes it was Stecker's though Brees gets the INT. It's a tip drill. It happens.

4) Brees interception for pick-6. This was Brees worst mistake of the game. Would have been better off taking the safety.

5) Brees final INT. killed a drive. However, no additional points resulted from the mistake.

Now the followup with TB. No turnovers.

So after 8 games, you're saying that you expect the Saints to have 3-4 more mistake filled, turnover prone games, when frankly only one of the 8 games they've play so far fits that mold? (technically 2 if you take the 1st quarter of the GB game into account).


Evidence? We totally owned Atlanta in the first game. They looked terrible against Detroit. If they lose to Cleveland, who has been playing much better as of late, they'll fall apart just like they did last year down the stretch.

Atlanta's defense can't defend against the Little Sisters of the Poor, much less a fully stocked Saints offense with the extremely capable Brees at the helm.

The game may be a shootout if the Atlanta receivers can catch the ball, but a loss? Don't see it. The Saints will be highly motivated to sweep the Falcons out of the playoff race.

Too early to discuss the Carolina game. Completely different outcomes if the #1 or #2 is locked in, vs fighting for a bye, vs. playing for the division championship or a playoff berth period.
Which one? Why? It seems that you're hedging your bets simply not to get burned.

At this point the Saints are who we think they are.
Ultra talented offense coupled with a smart but less gifted defense, that's in the top 10 in the NFL in both total defense and scoring defense BTW.

Baltimore is a top 5 defense in the whole league. No other team we play this regular season is rated above them. In fact only the Giants (scoring) and Dallas and Pittsburg (total defense) are the only defenses left on our schedule that are rated ahead of our own defense.

Games are not just won and lost on feelings. The way teams play and the matchups go a long way to determining who wins and loses. The Saints have problems with tough defenses. There's only 3 left on our schedule, and one of them is coupled to a team (Pittsburg) that makes so many offensive mistakes that their defense cannot make up for it.

SFIAH

RE: Re: RE: just imagine
 

whoa.... what's up with the attack on my opinion?! i was simply doing what everyone else here does, but i get torn apart b/c i voice my opinion..... wtf? i'm being realistic to the fact that we aren't going 8-0 to finish out the season, and that's misconstrued as "hedging my bets"? wow... anything i say is taken as "he's down on the saints" or "doom and gloom", when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.... i'm so proud of how they came out and played after that attrocious loss to baltimore, and really i was proud how they never gave up vs. the ravens as well.... i'm tired of being misinterpreted here... it's total bullsh!t.... no one else get the unfair treatment i get and its time it stops....

RE: Re: RE: just imagine
 

if you notice, i always said "to me" or "in my opinion" or whatever.... you don't have to agree, but to attack me on the issue of my opinion, that's lame... i know it sounds like alot of complaining, but how would you feel if everything you said was misinterpreted and judge wrongly.... even your opinion?

RE: Re: RE: just imagine
 

If the gaints beat the bears and we beat the gaints we have the tie breakers over the bears from commen opp.

RE: Re: RE: just imagine
 

ya know whats funny....we havent even made the playoffs yet and we are talking about 1st round byes and what not....what a difference a year makes, last year we were making up scenarios for us to pick #1, now we are doing scenarios for playoff bye.......i could care less, i just want the playoffs, anything can happen in the playoffs......one game at a time

Re: RE: Re: RE: just imagine
 

If I had a dollar, everytime someone thought they were the only one's being treated unfairly around here, I could afford to buy that hooker for Halo....

You posted your opinion, he is trying to argue your points, and you claim you're being attacked. Did you put a skirt on today??? wth??? There is a difference between someone arguing points to your post, and, oh, I don't know.....calling someone a moron. That's an attack.

Moron.



8)

and Tally is banned in 3...2.... :P

Re: RE: Re: RE: just imagine
 

I think that attack is a bit strong. I was simply voicing another opinion that runs somewhat counter to yours.

What I did ask for was some evidence to back up those opinions. You said the Saints would go 5-3 or 4-4 down the stretch losing to Atlanta, Carolina, and others. My counter is that the Saints so far have lost only to pretty good defenses.

There's a vast difference between 8-0 and 4-4 (or 5-3). Considering the defenses we'll have down the stretch 6-2 seems realistic from existing data. We've beaten Atlanta this year, rather handily I may add, so opining that we'll lose to Atlanta seems pessimistic.
Everyone gets it, including B&B, Whodi, and myself. You'll get called to the carpet when you give opinions that have significant variance from existing data, or even the general feeling of the board.

But it isn't a bad thing. It gives us all something to write about during the week.

I would gently suggest just chilling. No harm done nor intended.

SFIAH

Re: RE: Re: RE: just imagine
 

My friend you should care, and care a lot. Stats clearly show that the teams with byes do significantly better than the teams that play the 1st week.

Pittsburg last year was an aberration.

The Saints are in the drivers seat for the #2 seed. They move into the drivers seat for the #1 seed and HFATTP (figure out that one :D) if the Giants defeat the Bears this week.

SFIAH

No comment.


:D

Or we could drop the next 6 straight and not even make the playoffs.....Show me a stat with teams that dont make the playoffs and their chances of winning the Super Bowl????? Im not sure but i bet the chanes arent good.... We came off a bye and look what happened against Balitmore...we are a young team and i think a bye would hurt us in the first round.....this team is playing on momentum and heart, not talent and skill. But that isnt even my point....If we are playing good football and dont get a 1st round bye, then who cares? If we beat Carolina, Atlanta and NY, then I think we are playing good enough football to beat anyone on sunday....im just saying, lets not even worry about bye's and crap until we clinch a playoff berth alright????? WHY IS EVERYONE ATTACKING ME??!??!?! hehehe

Saintsfan1313

no you weren't just simply voicing you opinion.... you were very condescending in the way you tried to refute what i was saying.... look, i have no problem (and i do mean NO problem) with ppl having opinions that oppose my own, but when you present them, have a little bit more class and respect for my idea/opinion, much like i do about other ppl's idea/opinion.... i don't come out and say "no, you're wrong about this or that".... i try to give the other person something else to think about in hopes that they too might see it from my side.... but i don't try to embarass or taunt the other person to belittle the other person into thinking like me.... see your post when you say "evidence?"..... for example.... this comment is filled with arrogance and a staunch attitude.... it's just simply insulting.... i don't mind you disagreeing, just do it with a bit more class.....

and that moron comment was not directed at anyone.... it was said as an expletive..... kinda the same way as if you stub you toe and say a bad word, that what i was doing....

this isn't the first time that on here after i post my opinion, somebody tells me my opinion is wrong or that their opinion is right and whatever i said is total crap, merely b/c it contradicts what they say..... it's just very sad that i try to listen to everyone and at least give some value to what everyone has to say, no matter how wrong i might think they are, but i can't get the same amount of respect.....

and it's not just the visitors... some of the mods are to blame, although none of them would ever admit it.... whatever, i guess i should just leave it be, but it really is getting old.....

I'm going to explain this to you very simply. This is a Saints football discussion forum, operative word being discussion. If you post a thread, you damn well better be ready to defend your opinions in said thread from those that may have a varying opinion. I went back and re-read this entire thread, and I STILL have no clue what you are referring to. The posts weren't anything that was breaking the rules, and not anything outside of some of the things that I've seen posted on threads that I post. I think you're taking this wayyyyyy to personal, and I have no idea why.
As far as the "moron" comment was concerned, I didn't press the issue when it happened, but you were in discussions with not only a member, but a moderator, at the time. I didn't say anything because you explained it, just as you did earlier in this thread.
And whatever the "mods are to blame" comment was about, feel free to get whatever you deem necessary off your chest now, frankly, this victim role your playing is tired. Hell, I'll even give you clemency right now, to state whatever grievance you feel is being held against you.

well, to put it simply back at you.... i'm tired of being told my opinion is wrong.... no one's opinion is wrong.... you don't have to agree w/ me, but at least be respectful of my position and when you (not you specifcally, bnb, but other posters) post a rebuttal, don't do it in a condescending way.... is that really too much to ask? i never said anyone was breaking the boards' "law", but there is a level of respect that i ascertain to all individuals who frequent this great site.... however, it seems that i don't get the same in return.... how would you feel if everytime you posted your opinion, someone told you "no, you're wrong"? i could see if i was posting stats or something factual that i was dead wrong about, but opinions (no matter how "left field, kooky, crazy, and moronic" they may seem) are all equaly vaild no matter who states them...

Unfortunately, yes.


I too, at times, cringe a bit at some of the abrasive posts and responses. It's just the nature of the beast. My advice to you is to just continue what you are doing in a civil manner. We all have differing opinions and ways to present them. Some of us just have to be right and will argue till the bitter end. Some of us are content by just presenting our view and not get into a debate. I'm not saying debate isn't a good thing. I am saying that when it turns into an agrument it gets pretty friggin' sad. Some folks are decent debaters and love it, some want to argue and some wanna talk just to hear their head rattle.

On the mod thing - I suspect its difficult to enjoy time posting as a regular abnormal Saints fan and keeping the peace at the same time. I'm sure there are things they want to say, but don't. With the exception of not changing my moniker from "3-4 Madness" to "Hot Sauce", they do a pretty good job. :)

My 2 cents.


8)

:popcorn:
:nutkick:
:furious:
:nono:

chrXis, let it go. I have been down this road before. You have your posters and you have your disclaimers. I kinda understand how you feel but B&B is right. People have the right argue or even tell you that you are wrong. You simply have 2 choices....either don't let it get to to you....or fight your point to the death. I've done both.

It must be that time of the month for someone. Geesh.....I read this & asked my wife if she was posting on B&G! :D

gandhi, that's exactly the condescention that i'm talking about.... i'm a real big fan of yours, but yet you mock.... i'm just trying to say that ever since the baltimore game, i've gotten a lot of flack and flame for my opinion, but yet i don't give that same disrespect to others.... everyone here is on equal footing and of equal standing no matter the age, race, education level, etc., but yet some feel as if they are better or more right than others... i could look down my nose at others b/c of various things including my educational level, knowledge, etc, but i don't play that card here.... i'm just really tired of everything i say being taken to the polar extreme and then being told that my opinion is not as valid as anyone else's....

you don't understand how insulting and aggrevating it is to post an opinion here and be told that you're wrong... about an opinion or view point!! there is no right or wrong on an opinion, but there are some here who feel they have the god given right to discern whether or not your opinion is right or wrong...

All things are possible. The Saints last 8 games have been wins against average or worse defenses, losses against above average defenses. Our defense has done well against both average and above average offenses too.

The likelyhood of this team dropping 6 straight is small given the 8 games of data that we have to work with so far.

0%. That's a known quantity. What's the breakdown of the 3-6 seeds as compared to the 1-2 seeds?
I disagree strongly. This team is playing talented, smart football. It's not driven by emotion or momentum. Baltimore is a top 3 defense. We had 5 turnovers resulting in 21 points. The two pick 6's coupled with Reggie's pick in the end zone were the difference in the game.
I do. And again you should too. You have to go with the odds. You have to work with the fact that it's going to be bitter cold, raining, sleeting, snowing in Chicago and New York in January. You have to work with the fact that New Your and Chicago have two of the best defenses in the NFC, and that you have a much, much better chance of handling such defenses in our building than in their outdoor stadiums in January.

Funny! :D

The playoffs are about positioning, and then luck. So the Saints should work their collective a$$e$ off to get the best positioning possible. It guaratees nothing I agree. But it gives them the best possible chance to have a deep run into the playoffs.

The NFL is no longer dynastic. You simply cannot build a machine that will win year after year after year. You have to strike each year when the iron is hot. The Saints iron is hot. They need to play each and every game down the stretch as a playoff game.

SFIAH

It was a joke dude. That's why the smiley face is there. It's okay to have your opinion even if everyone else on here disagrees with it. It's still yours. I got plastered when I started talking about Marques Colston in January. I got asked what organization I worked for & heard rebuttles about the guy like "he's another Onomo Ojo.....I'll pass." No biggie......I knew I was right! And now.....look who gets the last laugh.....me! There are alot of people who were clowning the guy then that are like "Man! Colston's the shiznit!" It's funny how opinions change with facts & proof isn't it? :P You don't have to agree with anyone else on here, but don't let there opinions bother you either. My point (in jest I might ad) was that you were taking what everyone else had to say to heart, because their opinion differed from yours. Just agree to disagree & move on! It's a forum of Saints fans! Other than a small few, I don't believe that many of us would pick on you just to pick on you. It just seems that way now. :wink:

Lighten up, my brotha'! The Saints are 6-2!!!!!!!!

i think that if the bears or giants get home field, that will be a significant advantage for them.... that's why it's important each week that we don't have any "good losses".... hopefully, ppl start to understand why i was so upset after that game... not that we lost, but that we let the rest of the nfc get ahead or catch up to us.... i'm not being stupid when i get upset after a loss or act irrational as if they were going to win every game, but we could be tied for first and depending on the outcome of the giants bears game, we'd be in a position to have the inside track for home field throughout.... that's what i meant when i said we would look back and think "i wish we would have gotten that game".... but everyone thought i was giving up on them and being "doom and gloom", but this scenario is what i was thinking about.... the missing the playoffs thing was a bit much and was probably emotion talking, but the home field thing will be crucial this year.... it will be tough to go on the road in january and play the bears or giants on their turf, in their weather, with their fans....

Actually I was questioning why you are voicing that opinion. It's fine to feel whatever you feel. However it helps to understand why you feel that way.

I say evidence because that what I do. I tell you what I think, then bring in some facts to support why I think that way. You can refute the opinion, and you can refute the evidence too. But it at least brings something to the table to discuss.

Simple example. Here's my opinion:

Most folks would have a problem with that opinion. Most would point out that the kid is near the top of the league in catches, yards, and tied for TD. Many would point out that when he became the number 1 WR on the field last week, he stepped up with 11 catches and 123 yards, and a TD.

That's evidence. Evidence to refute the argument.

So while my (and your) opinion are certainly there for us to make, it helps to bring something to the table to support it.

It's not arrogance. It's a discussion. At least that's how I feel about it.

SFIAH

Definitely noticing a trend......................... :?

gaw...me and SFIAH's arguement doesnt even get noticed because of the bickering between ChRxis and everyone else......Im still in the old Saint's thinkin and would be happy with a playoff appearance...i dont expect us to win it all this year, but i think we have a chance. We have come a long way this year....and it would be great to have a 1st round bye and home field throughout. but im not gunna count on it. We got a long stretch of tough games comin our way, and our focus should be one game at a time. Get past Pitt, the think about Cincy, and so on. But i like wher your head is at.......

what you quoted wasn't an opinion.... you are making a truth claim..... an opinion is like saying i rather blue than red, or i rather the black jersey to the white ones.... there is no truth to the statement, just matters of taste.... but what i've been getting for doing that is a bunch of crap... it's like i'm saying i lke the color blue, and then someone comes along and says i'm wrong for liking the color blue and gives me "evidence" to support the color red..... do you see what i'm saying? i don't have any problems with the red lovers, i just don't want the red supporters to tell me i'm wrong about the way i feel about the color blue.... that's annoying.... i don't tell ppl they are "wrong" for liking red... of course, i'm running with this metaphor, but it's the easiest way to explain myself.... well, i'm going to work, and willl be back on at about 10:30pm so i'll continue this discussion later, but i hope everyone can understand where my frustration comes in... i just get tired of hearing i'm "wrong" about my opinion or point of view.... that's all....

twenty paces and turn! :gun: :biggun:

"He said twenty paces"

"You walk off paces faster than me"

"What exactly does he mean by 'turn'?"

"My paces are a longer stride than yours"

"He didn't say fire after you turn"

"He doesn't have to say it, that's what that little cartoon thingy is"

"That's only your opinion"

"No, just ask BnB or anyone else here"

"You're hurting my feelings"


(snicker)


8)

Whew! ......and I thought I was adamant about my opinions! :D Can't we all just get along?

I'm in complete agreement here. The fairy tail stories of the 2005 Steelers and the 1984 Raiders are rarer than finding a Panthers fan here on this board. Usually the teams that get into the SB and win it are the high seeds.

SFIAH

Kind sir,

I respectfully disagree with the differentiation you make between an opinion and a truth claim. Or more to the point the assertion that you made in this thread that the Saints would lose to the Falcons and the Panthers. I took that as a truth claim and then proceeded to point out potential flaws in the assertion. I have trouble differentiating a truth claim of losing to a team that we've already beat and an opinions.

Just wanted to clarify.

SFIAH

Let me get my dictionary... just kidding!

Or am I? :dunce: