Defense Position Rankings

tweeky · 06-08-2003, 09:53 PM

I know a lot of us disagree on various decisions by the Saints Org concerning improvement of the Defense. If you were to build a defense from scratch, what positions would you address 1st, and last. Here's my list of what I feel are the most important positions that make up a great base 4-3 defense. I'd be interested in how the rest of you rank the difference makers... I also included our beloved Saints grade at that position.

1. DE-1 (Howard, B+)
2. DT-1 (Sullivan, C+ with tremendous upside, B+ potential this year)
3. OLB-1 (Hodge, C+, I think Allen may take this spot this year, if so B-)
4. DE-2 (Grant, B+)
5. DT-2 (take your pick, Smith, Jackson, Chase, Whitehead - C)
6. OLB-2 ( Allen or Rodgers, B-)
7. MLB (Ruff/Smith combo, C+??? B-???, Cie Grant may make this a B+ by years end)
8. SS (Mitchell, who knows, if he learned enough from Sammy, B-, if not D)
9. CB-1 (Carter, A- if in good shape and sober, F if he falls off the wagon)
10. FS ( Jones, A-)
11. CB-2 (Anybody, Thomas, Ambrose, August cut???, B-)

This obviously explains why I think they made the right choice with Sullivan over a CB.

I think our overall defense will be a B to a B- this year. I gave last year a D-. We should move up into the upper middle of the pack this year. Thats still way below what us Saints fans are used to, but I think we're headed in the right direction.

BillyCarpenter1 · 06-08-2003, 10:11 PM

Defense tackle # 1...mainly because a stud there is so hard to find.

tweeky · 06-09-2003, 02:12 AM

I didn\'t make myself clear, I meant which position do you think is most important to get an \"A\" player at to field a great D. I personally think the most talented player on the Defense needs to be the DE, then the DT etc. I think if you have a weak player, its easier if that player plays the #2 CB.

I just threw the Saints grades in for the hell of it. I used to think the best player had to be a stud LB. But I now think the DE is the cornerstone of a great D. Some may think a shut-down corner should be your best player, I don\'t anymore.

nocloning · 06-09-2003, 06:27 AM

I agree that the discussion is irrelevant. If you\'re not building from scratch, you will try to make your team better
a) based on what players are available
b) based on where you see the biggest weakness
Depends how blatant that weakness is, b) may outweigh a). Even if you are building from scratch you still will look at who is available. Except safety any position could be the first I address as a GM.
If I had to choose from players with the same skill-level (totally academic) I would go for a 3-down MLB followed by DT or DE (depends on which foot touched the ground first when I got out of bed the day I had to make the decision). You think the #1 CB is only the 9th important player on the D, tweeky? Not sure if I\'m reading your post right.

subguy · 06-09-2003, 08:13 AM

The biggest weak spot was,is, and will be a MLB. I would then look to ur DL. And then our Defensive backfield. The most troubling thing about our db\'s is the fact that we keep playing the\"if\" game. If Carter doesn\'t fall off the wagon. Bringing in any DL on the Atkins Diet would improve our line. Speed killed us on our line. Db\'s, Jones will more than likely be a big improvement. Ambrose wasn\'t great when he was here and I doubt he has improved in those few years, probably gotten older and slower. MLB is a joke, we are banking on a virtual unknown, unproven. Yes, I realize we are going MLB by committee. It really does not matter what I think. I hope we do great and everyone can call me a bigger idiot than already. I feel we have improved slightly,based on all of the well if\'s and what if\'s,like Carter,Ambrose, Sullivan(rookie), and Ruff who spent most of the year pulling splinters out of his butt from riding the pine. The guy had 4 total tackles, 0 sacks, 0 assists. Source NFL.com

[Edited on 9/6/2003 by subguy]

tweeky · 06-09-2003, 01:32 PM

I think your asking us what position on defense do we believe is the most important?

Thats pretty easy. It all starts upfront. So the entire DLine is the most important part of the defense. Every position behind the line depends on the Line stopping the run.

But most everybody knows this here.

OK, you may have posed the question better than I did but I must disagree that most everyone knows that the D-line is the most important. I\'ve read many (not all) posters here and other forums that argued we needed a shut-down corner more than another D Lineman. \"Gotta have a shut-down corner. Can\'t have a great D without a SDCB\".

I thought it might be interesting to see how others view the importance of certain positions relative to others. My grades for our players at those positions mucked up the post a bit.

I personally think a SDCB is more of a luxury, whereas a stud DL is a absolute necessity. I thought I\'d get much more disagreement than I have so far.

But its also only June and I\'m over-jonesin for some football.

Why can\'t we be like hockey and have about a 3 week offseason?

06-08-2003, 10:11 PM	#2
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Defense Position Rankings Defense tackle # 1...mainly because a stud there is so hard to find.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

06-09-2003, 02:12 AM	#3
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Defense Position Rankings I didn\'t make myself clear, I meant which position do you think is most important to get an \"A\" player at to field a great D. I personally think the most talented player on the Defense needs to be the DE, then the DT etc. I think if you have a weak player, its easier if that player plays the #2 CB. I just threw the Saints grades in for the hell of it. I used to think the best player had to be a stud LB. But I now think the DE is the cornerstone of a great D. Some may think a shut-down corner should be your best player, I don\'t anymore.
	Whether we agree or disagree; its all for Him.

06-09-2003, 06:27 AM	#4
nocloning 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 302	Defense Position Rankings I agree that the discussion is irrelevant. If you\'re not building from scratch, you will try to make your team better a) based on what players are available b) based on where you see the biggest weakness Depends how blatant that weakness is, b) may outweigh a). Even if you are building from scratch you still will look at who is available. Except safety any position could be the first I address as a GM. If I had to choose from players with the same skill-level (totally academic) I would go for a 3-down MLB followed by DT or DE (depends on which foot touched the ground first when I got out of bed the day I had to make the decision). You think the #1 CB is only the 9th important player on the D, tweeky? Not sure if I\'m reading your post right.
nocloning 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 302	\"What is Wal-Mart? Is it like they sell wall stuff?\"

06-09-2003, 08:13 AM	#5
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,096	Defense Position Rankings The biggest weak spot was,is, and will be a MLB. I would then look to ur DL. And then our Defensive backfield. The most troubling thing about our db\'s is the fact that we keep playing the\"if\" game. If Carter doesn\'t fall off the wagon. Bringing in any DL on the Atkins Diet would improve our line. Speed killed us on our line. Db\'s, Jones will more than likely be a big improvement. Ambrose wasn\'t great when he was here and I doubt he has improved in those few years, probably gotten older and slower. MLB is a joke, we are banking on a virtual unknown, unproven. Yes, I realize we are going MLB by committee. It really does not matter what I think. I hope we do great and everyone can call me a bigger idiot than already. I feel we have improved slightly,based on all of the well if\'s and what if\'s,like Carter,Ambrose, Sullivan(rookie), and Ruff who spent most of the year pulling splinters out of his butt from riding the pine. The guy had 4 total tackles, 0 sacks, 0 assists. Source NFL.com [Edited on 9/6/2003 by subguy]
	Don't want em to get your goat don't show em where it's hid.

06-09-2003, 01:32 PM	#6
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Defense Position Rankings I think your asking us what position on defense do we believe is the most important? Thats pretty easy. It all starts upfront. So the entire DLine is the most important part of the defense. Every position behind the line depends on the Line stopping the run. But most everybody knows this here. OK, you may have posed the question better than I did but I must disagree that most everyone knows that the D-line is the most important. I\'ve read many (not all) posters here and other forums that argued we needed a shut-down corner more than another D Lineman. \"Gotta have a shut-down corner. Can\'t have a great D without a SDCB\". I thought it might be interesting to see how others view the importance of certain positions relative to others. My grades for our players at those positions mucked up the post a bit. I personally think a SDCB is more of a luxury, whereas a stud DL is a absolute necessity. I thought I\'d get much more disagreement than I have so far. But its also only June and I\'m over-jonesin for some football. Why can\'t we be like hockey and have about a 3 week offseason?
	Whether we agree or disagree; its all for Him.

06-08-2003, 09:53 PM	#1
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Defense Position Rankings I know a lot of us disagree on various decisions by the Saints Org concerning improvement of the Defense. If you were to build a defense from scratch, what positions would you address 1st, and last. Here's my list of what I feel are the most important positions that make up a great base 4-3 defense. I'd be interested in how the rest of you rank the difference makers... I also included our beloved Saints grade at that position. 1. DE-1 (Howard, B+) 2. DT-1 (Sullivan, C+ with tremendous upside, B+ potential this year) 3. OLB-1 (Hodge, C+, I think Allen may take this spot this year, if so B-) 4. DE-2 (Grant, B+) 5. DT-2 (take your pick, Smith, Jackson, Chase, Whitehead - C) 6. OLB-2 ( Allen or Rodgers, B-) 7. MLB (Ruff/Smith combo, C+??? B-???, Cie Grant may make this a B+ by years end) 8. SS (Mitchell, who knows, if he learned enough from Sammy, B-, if not D) 9. CB-1 (Carter, A- if in good shape and sober, F if he falls off the wagon) 10. FS ( Jones, A-) 11. CB-2 (Anybody, Thomas, Ambrose, August cut???, B-) This obviously explains why I think they made the right choice with Sullivan over a CB. I think our overall defense will be a B to a B- this year. I gave last year a D-. We should move up into the upper middle of the pack this year. Thats still way below what us Saints fans are used to, but I think we're headed in the right direction.

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