Joe Horn could be done as a Saint

JOESAM2002 · 01-25-2007, 11:45 AM

Joe's groin was torn not pulled. It takes some time to heal from that. Even if it were a partial tear. I think Payton was holding him out just in case we made the Super Bowl so he would be at the best he could be.

pakowitz · 01-25-2007, 01:51 PM

i would love to keep joe but for less money.. his injury problems have plagued him the past few years and it wouldnt be worth it to pay the money and him be out for a few games or worse..
also i would love to see TE Eric Johnson from the San Francisco 49ers signed... he led their team in receptions up until last season when they drafted V. Davis 9th overall... johnson has great hands and would be a viable target for brees over the middle making our offense even more diverse then it already is

SapperSaint · 01-25-2007, 02:14 PM

Not too sure how I feel about this. Over the years I watched as we traded our "Good" players away and got nothing in return for them. Yes, Joe a major vertibrae in the backbone of the Saints and lossing him would hurt, but if he is unwilling to make the sacrifice and redo his contract for the betterment of the team that he "Loves so much", I say let him go. I feel they could get his money to him "somehow".

Who knows, this could all be eye wash and B.S., I hope so.

ssmitty · 01-25-2007, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by hagan714

NFL Leaders: %Pass Completion (Thru Dec. 31, 2006)
1 David Carr Hou 68.3 ( 302/442 )
2 Tony Romo Dal 65.3 ( 220/337 )
3 Peyton Manning Ind 65.0 ( 362/557 )
4 Chad Pennington NYJ 64.5 ( 313/485 )
5 Charlie Frye Cle 64.3 ( 252/392 )
6 Drew Brees NO 64.3 ( 356/554 )

NFL Passes Dropped
1 Green Bay Packers 43
2 New Orleans Saints 39
3 Seattle Seahawks 39
4 Philadelphia Eagles 37
5 Miami Dolphins 36
6 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 32
7 Cleveland Browns 30
8 Indianapolis Colts 28

Granted bress had the second most passes but he also had the second most drops. Now Manning had the most passes but he was ranked 8th in passes dropped. 11 less than new orleans. Bush leads the team with drops at 9. Henderson had 8. colston, horn has 5. That leaves 12 passes unaccounted for. I am betting the TE have a bulk of them but have not found those numbers yet. I know this an "objective" topic. But this site seems to be the most fair in giving the reciever the benifit of the doubt. I could sware henderson had more IMO.

NFL Leaders: Passes Dropped
1 Terrell Owens Dal 17
2t Darrell Jackson Sea 11
2t Andre Johnson Hou 11
2t Troy Williamson Min 11
5 Steve Smith Car 10
6 Reggie Brown Phi 9
7t Reggie Bush NO 8
7t Chris Chambers Mia 8
7t Donald Driver GB 8
7t Braylon Edwards Cle 8
7t Bubba Franks GB 8
7t Joey Galloway TB 8
7t Devery Henderson NO 8
7t Randy McMichael Mia 8

http://shsdemo.stats.com/fb/index.asp

My only point is Drew deserves the best hands at WR. Shawn is a QB turned coach so if any body is going to driven crazy by drops is him. Right now it is to early to cut Horn IMO.
We have alot WR that are 1st and 2nd year players with little to almost no playing time under there belts. Closton is going to be special but he is no where close to being ready for the #1 slot. Henderson is not ready for anything but the #3 either.
Joe will probly be around one more year before we start talking about redoing his contract. If we do it may be a way to minimize the pay increase from year to year by redoing the length of that contract. Maybe incentatives is another possible way.

Remember TO counts as 6.4 million against the cap in dallas so Joe's deal does not look all that bad.
Other than these options I only see us getting a WR through FA and those, as we know, are few and far inbetween as reliable.

Drew Bennett, UFA, Tennessee Titans
Kevin Curtis, UFA, St. Louis Rams
Patrick Crayton, RFA, Dallas Cowboys
Bobby Wade UFA Tennessee Titans
Marc Boerigter, UFA, Green Bay Packers
David Boston, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Tyrone Calico, UFA, Tennessee Titans
Andre' Davis, UFA, Buffalo Bills
Bobby Engram, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Justin Gage, UFA, Chicago Bears
D.J. Hackett, RFA, Seattle Seahawks
Keenan McCardell, UFA, San Diego Chargers
Shaun McDonald, UFA, St. Louis Rams
Samie Parker, RFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Jerome Pathon, UFA, Atlanta Falcons
Willie Ponder, UFA, New York Giants
Edell Shepherd, RFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Travis Taylor, UFA, Minnesota Vikings
Scottie Vines, RFA, Detroit Lions
Peter Warrick, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Kelley Washington, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
Alvis Whitted, UFA, Oakland Raiders
Ernest Wilford, RFA, Jacksonville Jaguars

I do not see much here to gamble with as our future #1

Free Agent Tight Ends
Eric Johnson, UFA, San Francisco 49ers
Kyle Brady, UFA, Jacksonville Jaguars
Daniel Graham, UFA, New England Patriots
Ben Hartsock, RFA, Indianapolis Colts
Zach Hilton, UFA, New York Jets
Reggie Kelly, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
Jerramy Stevens, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Boo Williams, UFA, New York Giants

hey,,,,,,,,,(trying not to crack a smile) boo williams could be a steal......

LongTimeFan · 01-25-2007, 07:41 PM

I know that the Saints owe him 4 mil. next season if they keep him and I also know Joe is almost 34 years old & has lost a step but it still won't be easy to see him go if it comes down to that..
Let's say Joe retires, should he be part of the coaching staff? (WR coach?)
He knows the team inside & out and has a great relationship with the team, it could work our IMO, but then again I'm a huge fan of Horn.

D24pick · 01-25-2007, 09:19 PM

He is 34^^^

Bobaganoosh · 01-25-2007, 11:44 PM

actually, turns 35 this month. Not exactly the prime age for an NFL WR. I sure hope Joe doesnt think he will get 4 million from some other team. I think if they convert some of his salary to upfront money, thus lessening his cap hit, he should take it. I love Joe to death, but there is no way he gets more than 2 million anywhere.

SaintPauly · 01-26-2007, 07:18 AM

I agree on the finding a new TE. Ernie Conwell, has been nothing but injurie prone, since we signed him. The guy has great hands, and he blocks above average, but he's had season ending injuries twice, since he came on. I don't know how much we are paying him, but I think it's time to let him go. Maybe he is gone, and I just didn't hear about it.

spkb25 · 01-26-2007, 06:48 PM

i love joe horn but the guy hasn't played a full season in what 2-3 years. he's old and not really anything that can't be replaced. he is taking a pay cut whether it is with us or on the market. might as well stay here and take the cut. if not oh well. hte to see him go but at the same time i would rather free up the money then see it sit on the sidlines

biloxi-indian · 01-26-2007, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by spkb25

i love joe horn but the guy hasn't played a full season in what 2-3 years. he's old and not really anything that can't be replaced. he is taking a pay cut whether it is with us or on the market. might as well stay here and take the cut. if not oh well. hte to see him go but at the same time i would rather free up the money then see it sit on the sidlines

Placing emotions and loyalty aside, Joe hasn't provided the RECENT production to warrant the $$$$$$$$$ he will earn in 2007. If he is unwilling to redo his contract, I see him elsewhere in 2007. IMHO, damn shame, but as I said....place emotions aside!

01-25-2007, 06:45 PM	#14
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879	Originally Posted by hagan714 NFL Leaders: %Pass Completion (Thru Dec. 31, 2006) 1 David Carr Hou 68.3 ( 302/442 ) 2 Tony Romo Dal 65.3 ( 220/337 ) 3 Peyton Manning Ind 65.0 ( 362/557 ) 4 Chad Pennington NYJ 64.5 ( 313/485 ) 5 Charlie Frye Cle 64.3 ( 252/392 ) 6 Drew Brees NO 64.3 ( 356/554 ) NFL Passes Dropped 1 Green Bay Packers 43 2 New Orleans Saints 39 3 Seattle Seahawks 39 4 Philadelphia Eagles 37 5 Miami Dolphins 36 6 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 32 7 Cleveland Browns 30 8 Indianapolis Colts 28 Granted bress had the second most passes but he also had the second most drops. Now Manning had the most passes but he was ranked 8th in passes dropped. 11 less than new orleans. Bush leads the team with drops at 9. Henderson had 8. colston, horn has 5. That leaves 12 passes unaccounted for. I am betting the TE have a bulk of them but have not found those numbers yet. I know this an "objective" topic. But this site seems to be the most fair in giving the reciever the benifit of the doubt. I could sware henderson had more IMO. NFL Leaders: Passes Dropped 1 Terrell Owens Dal 17 2t Darrell Jackson Sea 11 2t Andre Johnson Hou 11 2t Troy Williamson Min 11 5 Steve Smith Car 10 6 Reggie Brown Phi 9 7t Reggie Bush NO 8 7t Chris Chambers Mia 8 7t Donald Driver GB 8 7t Braylon Edwards Cle 8 7t Bubba Franks GB 8 7t Joey Galloway TB 8 7t Devery Henderson NO 8 7t Randy McMichael Mia 8 http://shsdemo.stats.com/fb/index.asp My only point is Drew deserves the best hands at WR. Shawn is a QB turned coach so if any body is going to driven crazy by drops is him. Right now it is to early to cut Horn IMO. We have alot WR that are 1st and 2nd year players with little to almost no playing time under there belts. Closton is going to be special but he is no where close to being ready for the #1 slot. Henderson is not ready for anything but the #3 either. Joe will probly be around one more year before we start talking about redoing his contract. If we do it may be a way to minimize the pay increase from year to year by redoing the length of that contract. Maybe incentatives is another possible way. Remember TO counts as 6.4 million against the cap in dallas so Joe's deal does not look all that bad. Other than these options I only see us getting a WR through FA and those, as we know, are few and far inbetween as reliable. Drew Bennett, UFA, Tennessee Titans Kevin Curtis, UFA, St. Louis Rams Patrick Crayton, RFA, Dallas Cowboys Bobby Wade UFA Tennessee Titans Marc Boerigter, UFA, Green Bay Packers David Boston, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers Tyrone Calico, UFA, Tennessee Titans Andre' Davis, UFA, Buffalo Bills Bobby Engram, UFA, Seattle Seahawks Justin Gage, UFA, Chicago Bears D.J. Hackett, RFA, Seattle Seahawks Keenan McCardell, UFA, San Diego Chargers Shaun McDonald, UFA, St. Louis Rams Samie Parker, RFA, Kansas City Chiefs Jerome Pathon, UFA, Atlanta Falcons Willie Ponder, UFA, New York Giants Edell Shepherd, RFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers Travis Taylor, UFA, Minnesota Vikings Scottie Vines, RFA, Detroit Lions Peter Warrick, UFA, Seattle Seahawks Kelley Washington, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals Alvis Whitted, UFA, Oakland Raiders Ernest Wilford, RFA, Jacksonville Jaguars I do not see much here to gamble with as our future #1 Free Agent Tight Ends Eric Johnson, UFA, San Francisco 49ers Kyle Brady, UFA, Jacksonville Jaguars Daniel Graham, UFA, New England Patriots Ben Hartsock, RFA, Indianapolis Colts Zach Hilton, UFA, New York Jets Reggie Kelly, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals Jerramy Stevens, UFA, Seattle Seahawks Boo Williams, UFA, New York Giants hey,,,,,,,,,(trying not to crack a smile) boo williams could be a steal......
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879

01-26-2007, 10:16 PM	#20
biloxi-indian Site Donor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southlake, TX Posts: 1,706	Originally Posted by spkb25 i love joe horn but the guy hasn't played a full season in what 2-3 years. he's old and not really anything that can't be replaced. he is taking a pay cut whether it is with us or on the market. might as well stay here and take the cut. if not oh well. hte to see him go but at the same time i would rather free up the money then see it sit on the sidlines Placing emotions and loyalty aside, Joe hasn't provided the RECENT production to warrant the $$$$$$$$$ he will earn in 2007. If he is unwilling to redo his contract, I see him elsewhere in 2007. IMHO, damn shame, but as I said....place emotions aside!

01-25-2007, 11:45 AM	#11
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Joe's groin was torn not pulled. It takes some time to heal from that. Even if it were a partial tear. I think Payton was holding him out just in case we made the Super Bowl so he would be at the best he could be.

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01-25-2007, 01:51 PM	#12
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	i would love to keep joe but for less money.. his injury problems have plagued him the past few years and it wouldnt be worth it to pay the money and him be out for a few games or worse.. also i would love to see TE Eric Johnson from the San Francisco 49ers signed... he led their team in receptions up until last season when they drafted V. Davis 9th overall... johnson has great hands and would be a viable target for brees over the middle making our offense even more diverse then it already is

01-25-2007, 02:14 PM	#13
SapperSaint Pink Nightmare Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 3,028 Blog Entries: 7	Not too sure how I feel about this. Over the years I watched as we traded our "Good" players away and got nothing in return for them. Yes, Joe a major vertibrae in the backbone of the Saints and lossing him would hurt, but if he is unwilling to make the sacrifice and redo his contract for the betterment of the team that he "Loves so much", I say let him go. I feel they could get his money to him "somehow". Who knows, this could all be eye wash and B.S., I hope so.

01-25-2007, 07:41 PM	#15
LongTimeFan Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Louisiana Posts: 2,403	I know that the Saints owe him 4 mil. next season if they keep him and I also know Joe is almost 34 years old & has lost a step but it still won't be easy to see him go if it comes down to that.. Let's say Joe retires, should he be part of the coaching staff? (WR coach?) He knows the team inside & out and has a great relationship with the team, it could work our IMO, but then again I'm a huge fan of Horn.

01-25-2007, 09:19 PM	#16
D24pick 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 578	He is 34^^^

01-25-2007, 11:44 PM	#17
Bobaganoosh PorkchopExpress Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 608 Blog Entries: 2	actually, turns 35 this month. Not exactly the prime age for an NFL WR. I sure hope Joe doesnt think he will get 4 million from some other team. I think if they convert some of his salary to upfront money, thus lessening his cap hit, he should take it. I love Joe to death, but there is no way he gets more than 2 million anywhere.

01-26-2007, 07:18 AM	#18
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	I agree on the finding a new TE. Ernie Conwell, has been nothing but injurie prone, since we signed him. The guy has great hands, and he blocks above average, but he's had season ending injuries twice, since he came on. I don't know how much we are paying him, but I think it's time to let him go. Maybe he is gone, and I just didn't hear about it.

01-26-2007, 06:48 PM	#19
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,093	i love joe horn but the guy hasn't played a full season in what 2-3 years. he's old and not really anything that can't be replaced. he is taking a pay cut whether it is with us or on the market. might as well stay here and take the cut. if not oh well. hte to see him go but at the same time i would rather free up the money then see it sit on the sidlines