Experts Grades And Analysis On Saints Draft

BRSaintsFan · 04-30-2007, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by elephantman37

Were you this negative after last years draft too??? If so I am sure you were upset with Jahari Evans and Marcus Colston. Maybe we should have passed on those guys and taken a couple of BIG school players. I think the staff knows just a "little" more than we do. I personally like the pics of Young and AA in the 3rd. The thing that we must remember is that our coachs have a chance to evaluate these players on a personal level. We build our mock drafts based on media info.

The only time you can REALLY get/give an accurate grade to this draft is 3-5 years from now.

Yeah I think there isnt really a way to grade a draft today aside from potential. Its not being negative or unhappy with the draft but acknowledging and giving due credit to Carolina and Atlanta for what seems to be based on potential, exceptional drafts.

elephantman37 · 04-30-2007, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan

Yeah I think there isnt really a way to grade a draft today aside from potential. Its not being negative or unhappy with the draft but acknowledging and giving due credit to Carolina and Atlanta for what seems to be based on potential, exceptional drafts.

I agree with ya. I REALLY like Carolinas draft. Both Atlanta and Carolina have some "big name" players. So their drafts definately look better than ours on paper(if you believe that these so called "experts" know what they are talking about). The Falcons better hope that their new staff is more adept at evaluating talent than the previous group(Roddy White, Michal Jenkins, Brian Scott, etc....All bad 1st rounders)

"In Payton we trust"

elephantman37 · 04-30-2007, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by saintsmissile

being realistic. We had defensive depth needs as follows:

CB-picked two project CB's who will need time to develop due to small schools they played for

ILB-M.Mitchell-Slow footed albeit tough lb.Every report I've seen on him says he'll never be more than a special teamer. At BEST 2nd string

OLB-None picked

DT-None picked

SS-None picked

You can see why I'm not quite as enthusiastic as you guys. I'm all for BPA within reason. This took it to a whole other level. You can NOT tell me that the kid from Wingate has more potential than Wade from Tennessee. No way will I believe that.

Then I guess you would take EVERY one of these BIG school guys over the Colston(based on your Johnathan Wade logic):

Santonio Holmes WR OHIO STATE 1 25(25) Pittsburgh
Chad Jackson WR FLORIDA 2 4(36) New England
Sinorice Moss WR MIAMI (FLA.) 2 12(44) New York
Greg Jennings WR WESTERN MICHIGAN 2 20(52) Green Bay
Travis Wilson WR OKLAHOMA 3 14(78) Cleveland
Derek Hagan WR ARIZONA STATE 3 18(82) Miami
Brandon Williams WR WISCONSIN 3 20(84) San Francisco
Maurice Stovall WR NOTRE DAME 3 26(90) Tampa Bay
Michael Robinson WR PENN STATE 4 3(100) San Francisco
Brad Smith WR MISSOURI 4 6(103) New York
Cory Rodgers WR TCU 4 7(104) Green Bay
Jason Avant WR MICHIGAN 4 12(109) Philadelphia
Demetrius Williams WR OREGON 4 14(111) Baltimore
Will Blackmon WR BOSTON COLLEGE 4 18(115) Green Bay
Skyler Green WR LSU 4 28(125) Dallas
Marques Hagans WR VIRGINIA 5 11(144) St. Louis
Mike Hass WR OREGON STATE 6 2(171) New Orleans
Jonathan Orr WR WISCONSIN 6 3(172) Tennessee
Ethan Kilmer WR PENN STATE 7 1(209) Cincinnati
Todd Watkins WR BYU 7 10(218) Arizona
Bennie Brazell WR LSU 7 23(231) Cincinnati
Devin Aromashodu WR AUBURN 7 25(233) Miami
Ben Obomano WR AUBURN 7 41(249) Seattle

I am not saying that ALL small school players pan out, but your logic that "BIG is better" is flawed. I agree that we needed an upgrade at DT, but I think your "needs" should be filled via FA. That way you are getting a player that has NFL experience. I do think that W. Thomas was a GREAT pickup. I too wanted us to draft him, but it worked out better in the end.

elephantman37 · 04-30-2007, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by saintsmissile

what I'm getting at, but I see your point. My point is that the percentages of picking small school prospects that make contributions is always less than bigger name kids from bigger schools. Be honest man. The Saints got LUCKY with Colston. It was a after thought pick that didn't really cost us anything. If you would have asked SP if Colston would have had the year he had when he drafted him he probably would have laughed. We got lucky once with Evans and Colston, I doubt we captured lightening in a bottle twice. And yes, I would have probably picked other wr's than Colston. Course, so did 31 other teams as well. To use your analogy, the Bears should have picked a smaller school prospect instead of shooting the dice on a big school player in Hester. The draft is certainly not a science, but when you start betting the farm year in and year out with guys from Kent State, Bloomsberg, Towson, Akron, Wingate, Hofstra I can GUARANTEE you a team going downhill eventually. Listen, I hope all these guys come in and do great things, but it almost seems like SP PURPOSELY targeted small school prospects. If that is the case, it's not a very wise move.

I do agree we got lucky with Colston. I don't however think SP purposely drafts guys from smaller schools JUST because they are smaller. We did draft guys 2 guys from Tennessee and one from Ohio St.

I just think that coach Payton is a tireless worker/scouter when it comes to the Draft. I agree that if you draft ALL of your players form D-1AA schools your team will go downhill in a hurry. But, I also believe that you must fill your TRUE need positions via FA.

I feel out needs this offseason were DT, ILB, CB, SS, TE, and K. After sigining Simmons, Kaesviharn, Eric Johnson, Jason David, and Mare the only TRUE hole we have is DT. Hopefully, Thomas or a post June 1st FA can take care of these. I truly believe that taking hte BPA is the best way to go about the draft. We FINALLY have the luxury and it feels good.

Man, I love to discuss Saints FB!!!

saintsrule · 04-30-2007, 03:15 PM

All offseason, all I heard on the Saints boards, was how the fans wanted a cornerback, in the draft or in FA. So what do the Saints do, they get a FA and two draft picks, who are CBs. Now all I hear is they should have gotten a DT. I realize now, that most people will not be happy, no matter what they do. Think about it, they want to win. So they are going to do their best, to get the players they think will help them do that. I think they did great, if they got the players they wanted, at the pick they wanted them.

ChippySwans · 04-30-2007, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by saintsrule

All offseason, all I heard on the Saints boards, was how the fans wanted a cornerback, in the draft or in FA. So what do the Saints do, they get a FA and two draft picks, who are CBs. Now all I hear is they should have gotten a DT. I realize now, that most people will not be happy, no matter what they do. Think about it, they want to win. So they are going to do their best, to get the players they think will help them do that. I think they did great, if they got the players they wanted, at the pick they wanted them.

no, most fans would have been happy had we gotten cb's and dt's. i am happy either way...i can just point out that we passed up an opportunity to fill a need.

BiggPoppaFro4 · 04-30-2007, 10:46 PM

I understand the sound of the arguement of "but they had a better draft than us!", but that isn't the biggest thing.

You can only grade your teams draft versus what your team needs and plays...and Meachem was the BPA at a position of need. We HAD to get a solid WR that didn't have to be the #1 and we got what many called the #2 guy overall, behind only a dude that breaks every physical mold ever created for the position...not too shabby. Besides, Branch was the DT left that would have been picked and he had questions that made him drop past a couple of other teams that could have used him.

I mean, comparing our draft this year versus another team's, to me, is like my friend that keeps harping about how the panthers beat us twice last year...who cares, cuz in the end we were in the NFCC and they were watching. Pyrrhic victory in my mind.

I think we drafted just fine...as long as most of those guys make it through camp.

04-30-2007, 12:46 PM	#2
elephantman37 Rookie Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 13	Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan Yeah I think there isnt really a way to grade a draft today aside from potential. Its not being negative or unhappy with the draft but acknowledging and giving due credit to Carolina and Atlanta for what seems to be based on potential, exceptional drafts. I agree with ya. I REALLY like Carolinas draft. Both Atlanta and Carolina have some "big name" players. So their drafts definately look better than ours on paper(if you believe that these so called "experts" know what they are talking about). The Falcons better hope that their new staff is more adept at evaluating talent than the previous group(Roddy White, Michal Jenkins, Brian Scott, etc....All bad 1st rounders) "In Payton we trust"
elephantman37 Rookie Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 13

04-30-2007, 01:07 PM	#3
elephantman37 Rookie Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 13	Originally Posted by saintsmissile being realistic. We had defensive depth needs as follows: CB-picked two project CB's who will need time to develop due to small schools they played for ILB-M.Mitchell-Slow footed albeit tough lb.Every report I've seen on him says he'll never be more than a special teamer. At BEST 2nd string OLB-None picked DT-None picked SS-None picked You can see why I'm not quite as enthusiastic as you guys. I'm all for BPA within reason. This took it to a whole other level. You can NOT tell me that the kid from Wingate has more potential than Wade from Tennessee. No way will I believe that. Then I guess you would take EVERY one of these BIG school guys over the Colston(based on your Johnathan Wade logic): Santonio Holmes WR OHIO STATE 1 25(25) Pittsburgh Chad Jackson WR FLORIDA 2 4(36) New England Sinorice Moss WR MIAMI (FLA.) 2 12(44) New York Greg Jennings WR WESTERN MICHIGAN 2 20(52) Green Bay Travis Wilson WR OKLAHOMA 3 14(78) Cleveland Derek Hagan WR ARIZONA STATE 3 18(82) Miami Brandon Williams WR WISCONSIN 3 20(84) San Francisco Maurice Stovall WR NOTRE DAME 3 26(90) Tampa Bay Michael Robinson WR PENN STATE 4 3(100) San Francisco Brad Smith WR MISSOURI 4 6(103) New York Cory Rodgers WR TCU 4 7(104) Green Bay Jason Avant WR MICHIGAN 4 12(109) Philadelphia Demetrius Williams WR OREGON 4 14(111) Baltimore Will Blackmon WR BOSTON COLLEGE 4 18(115) Green Bay Skyler Green WR LSU 4 28(125) Dallas Marques Hagans WR VIRGINIA 5 11(144) St. Louis Mike Hass WR OREGON STATE 6 2(171) New Orleans Jonathan Orr WR WISCONSIN 6 3(172) Tennessee Ethan Kilmer WR PENN STATE 7 1(209) Cincinnati Todd Watkins WR BYU 7 10(218) Arizona Bennie Brazell WR LSU 7 23(231) Cincinnati Devin Aromashodu WR AUBURN 7 25(233) Miami Ben Obomano WR AUBURN 7 41(249) Seattle I am not saying that ALL small school players pan out, but your logic that "BIG is better" is flawed. I agree that we needed an upgrade at DT, but I think your "needs" should be filled via FA. That way you are getting a player that has NFL experience. I do think that W. Thomas was a GREAT pickup. I too wanted us to draft him, but it worked out better in the end.
elephantman37 Rookie Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 13

04-30-2007, 02:40 PM	#4
elephantman37 Rookie Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 13	Originally Posted by saintsmissile what I'm getting at, but I see your point. My point is that the percentages of picking small school prospects that make contributions is always less than bigger name kids from bigger schools. Be honest man. The Saints got LUCKY with Colston. It was a after thought pick that didn't really cost us anything. If you would have asked SP if Colston would have had the year he had when he drafted him he probably would have laughed. We got lucky once with Evans and Colston, I doubt we captured lightening in a bottle twice. And yes, I would have probably picked other wr's than Colston. Course, so did 31 other teams as well. To use your analogy, the Bears should have picked a smaller school prospect instead of shooting the dice on a big school player in Hester. The draft is certainly not a science, but when you start betting the farm year in and year out with guys from Kent State, Bloomsberg, Towson, Akron, Wingate, Hofstra I can GUARANTEE you a team going downhill eventually. Listen, I hope all these guys come in and do great things, but it almost seems like SP PURPOSELY targeted small school prospects. If that is the case, it's not a very wise move. I do agree we got lucky with Colston. I don't however think SP purposely drafts guys from smaller schools JUST because they are smaller. We did draft guys 2 guys from Tennessee and one from Ohio St. I just think that coach Payton is a tireless worker/scouter when it comes to the Draft. I agree that if you draft ALL of your players form D-1AA schools your team will go downhill in a hurry. But, I also believe that you must fill your TRUE need positions via FA. I feel out needs this offseason were DT, ILB, CB, SS, TE, and K. After sigining Simmons, Kaesviharn, Eric Johnson, Jason David, and Mare the only TRUE hole we have is DT. Hopefully, Thomas or a post June 1st FA can take care of these. I truly believe that taking hte BPA is the best way to go about the draft. We FINALLY have the luxury and it feels good. Man, I love to discuss Saints FB!!!
elephantman37 Rookie Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 13

04-30-2007, 03:15 PM	#5
saintsrule 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 657	All offseason, all I heard on the Saints boards, was how the fans wanted a cornerback, in the draft or in FA. So what do the Saints do, they get a FA and two draft picks, who are CBs. Now all I hear is they should have gotten a DT. I realize now, that most people will not be happy, no matter what they do. Think about it, they want to win. So they are going to do their best, to get the players they think will help them do that. I think they did great, if they got the players they wanted, at the pick they wanted them.
saintsrule 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 657

04-30-2007, 03:27 PM	#6
ChippySwans Rookie Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 29	Originally Posted by saintsrule All offseason, all I heard on the Saints boards, was how the fans wanted a cornerback, in the draft or in FA. So what do the Saints do, they get a FA and two draft picks, who are CBs. Now all I hear is they should have gotten a DT. I realize now, that most people will not be happy, no matter what they do. Think about it, they want to win. So they are going to do their best, to get the players they think will help them do that. I think they did great, if they got the players they wanted, at the pick they wanted them. no, most fans would have been happy had we gotten cb's and dt's. i am happy either way...i can just point out that we passed up an opportunity to fill a need.
ChippySwans Rookie Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 29

04-30-2007, 12:35 PM	#1
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Originally Posted by elephantman37 Were you this negative after last years draft too??? If so I am sure you were upset with Jahari Evans and Marcus Colston. Maybe we should have passed on those guys and taken a couple of BIG school players. I think the staff knows just a "little" more than we do. I personally like the pics of Young and AA in the 3rd. The thing that we must remember is that our coachs have a chance to evaluate these players on a personal level. We build our mock drafts based on media info. The only time you can REALLY get/give an accurate grade to this draft is 3-5 years from now. Yeah I think there isnt really a way to grade a draft today aside from potential. Its not being negative or unhappy with the draft but acknowledging and giving due credit to Carolina and Atlanta for what seems to be based on potential, exceptional drafts.

04-30-2007, 10:46 PM	#7
BiggPoppaFro4 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 231	I understand the sound of the arguement of "but they had a better draft than us!", but that isn't the biggest thing. You can only grade your teams draft versus what your team needs and plays...and Meachem was the BPA at a position of need. We HAD to get a solid WR that didn't have to be the #1 and we got what many called the #2 guy overall, behind only a dude that breaks every physical mold ever created for the position...not too shabby. Besides, Branch was the DT left that would have been picked and he had questions that made him drop past a couple of other teams that could have used him. I mean, comparing our draft this year versus another team's, to me, is like my friend that keeps harping about how the panthers beat us twice last year...who cares, cuz in the end we were in the NFCC and they were watching. Pyrrhic victory in my mind. I think we drafted just fine...as long as most of those guys make it through camp.
BiggPoppaFro4 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 231