What are you most pleased with about this draft?

hagan714 · 05-03-2007, 04:44 AM

Originally Posted by Saintuary

This rarely happens to me but the Saints finally got somebody I really wanted, Eugene Lipscomb. Anybody know who Eugene was? That's right, Eugene is back and in the body of Walter Thomas. Reincarnation? They both seem to have had simular backgrounds.That's right Big Daddy is back and in a Saints uniform and I'm pleased.

What are you pleased about?

Eugene Lipscomb now now lets not put to much pressure on the kid.

mighty12 · 05-03-2007, 09:39 AM

You can't use the "small School" "No Talent" excuse because many a great player have come from small JuCos it doesn't matter what college they went to, if they have the ability they have it, and the oppposite is true a good player from a powerhouse school fail more often because they were in a system with other players equal or better than they are. A corner from Tenn. is more likely to have been helped out by safties and good coaching than a corner from Kent who could have been the best defensive player on his team. We will just have to sit and watch and next year we can make our draft assessment. After last year's draft most people said "Well The got Reggie so it was a pretty good draft. The rest of the players were drafted just to allow for the Reggie Signing. None of them will start in '06. Well 5 of the 8 players draft started at least one game, ON THE NFC SOUTH CHAMPIONS!

WhoDat205 · 05-03-2007, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by saintsmissile

Young started X amount of games at Kent. The problem with that is IT WAS KENT!

Kent State is D1A. Last year they played Minnesota and VaTech plus their MAC conference schedule. It's not the SEC, but we're not talking about Millsaps either.

Originally Posted by saintsmissile

How many NFL caliber wr's was he going against in both practice and games.

At first glance, of the guys Young played against last year, these two were drafted:

Ryne Robinson WR MIAMI (OHIO) 4 19(118) Carolina
David Clowney WR VIRGINIA TECH 5 20(157) Green Bay

BRSaintsFan · 05-03-2007, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by saintsmissile

Jason David. I will go off the subject a tad here. Young and Jones have talent. That I'm sure of. However, much has been made that Young started X amount of games at Kent. The problem with that is IT WAS KENT! How many NFL caliber wr's was he going against in both practice and games. An example of this would be J.Wade from Tenn. Wade had almost identical measurables as Young and Jones. The big difference in my mind: competition. Wade went against Meachem, Dallas Baker from UF, Dwayne Bowe and Buster Davis from LSU, S.Rice from Arkansas, Courtney Taylor from Auburn etc. Does the MAC or whatever conference Young and Jones play in have anywhere NEAR this kind of talent? Doubt it. I'm not saying that either is not worthy of being picked, but my point here is that the jump to NFL caliber wr's is a big one. The fact that Wade etc have played against NFL caliber receiver's in college gives them a bit of advantage. Basically, the learning curve for small school cb's is a bit greater.

You are correct. Just as hard as it is to make the transition to NFL for a WR, its just as hard if not harder for CBs. Where I think that Young especially and Jones as well have more potential thatn Jon Wade, I agree that the learning curve will be much more for them. In Wade's case, you also have to consider not only the guys he faced this season but in season's past. Its not unrealistic to say that a guy who has played 4 years for an SEC school could have possibly faced 10 NFL starters or regular contributers at wideout. Thus, I think if you are looking for someone who can come in on defense immediately and be able to contribute either in a partial/split time role or as a nickel back, you are better off drafting a big school player. However, we drafted our CBs this season based on potential and Young and Jones potential is much greater than Wades. No corner we drafted was cracking the starting lineup and probably not the nickel or even dime back cases either. They may get some spot duty here and there and will be expected to contribute on special teams. In the mean time, you will be grooming them and instead of them facing Bowe, and Rice and Davis in college practice, they will be facing Colston, MEachem, Patten. Also they will have the guidance of Frddy T, Craft, McKenzie which will also be big for them catching the learning curve.

Thus, with some big school prospects, you can argue that because they played against so much good competition, that while they are battle tested and likely more NFL ready, you might never get any more out of them than you already have. These small school guys havent played against that type of competition so you dont know what the possibilities are. I would have rather selected Wade or Bennett or another corner from a strong conference with one of the CB picks that way we have a guy who is battle tested and played against the best in case we do need him to contribute a fair amount of defensive snaps during the season and one CB who is more of a project but whose upside is limitless. But it is what it is.

Saintuary · 05-03-2007, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

Eugene Lipscomb now now lets not put to much pressure on the kid.

Not putting any pressure on the kid but he sure could be. Then I was kinda referring to their background being somewhat simular. I'm really pulling for this guy.

JOESAM2002 · 05-03-2007, 10:54 AM

If you have the speed,moves and the heart to compete the rest can be taught. These guys have the chance of a lifetime,it just depends on how much heart they have and how bad they want it.

NarwhalHunter · 05-03-2007, 07:34 PM

You can make the case that big school prospects are just products of their 'system' as much as small school players were men among boys. I understand that the SEC is so tough that the '72 Dolphins would have gone 7-9 playing in there, but I know I watched Florida beat up on my alma mater Southern Miss, which is nowhere near a top flight school as far as talent goes. Big schools love to rack up huge numbers against creampuff schedules. Anyone can turn one stat to mean anything they want. It doesn't matter what school they played for, it's what they do when they hit the big time that really counts.

I think Young is one of the best sleepers in the draft and might turn into a shutdown corner given the proper coaching. We have two starters in McKenzie and now David, along with Craft and Freddy T still in the mix to fight for the nickel and dime spots. We can afford to take a guy that needs a year or two of seasoning and who can transition into the lineup when McKenzie hits the downslope of his career. I'm pretty excited with this draft. We had the luxury to take the best players available without worrying about need, and when was the last time the Saints have ever been able to draft that way? Not many teams are going to be able to handle the offensive juggernaut we're building. Brees, Deuce, Reggie, Pittman, Colston, Henderson, Meachem, Johnson, and a very solid line that is just going to get better... need I go on? We gave them fits last year, next year we might get an honest to God forfeit.

D24pick · 05-03-2007, 07:59 PM

Well put post NH, you toke the words out of my mouth

hagan714 · 05-04-2007, 07:14 AM

we went into the draft with very little press. I like that. tight lipped. We did not come close to tipping our hand.

05-03-2007, 04:44 AM	#21
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Originally Posted by Saintuary This rarely happens to me but the Saints finally got somebody I really wanted, Eugene Lipscomb. Anybody know who Eugene was? That's right, Eugene is back and in the body of Walter Thomas. Reincarnation? They both seem to have had simular backgrounds.That's right Big Daddy is back and in a Saints uniform and I'm pleased. What are you pleased about? Eugene Lipscomb now now lets not put to much pressure on the kid.

05-03-2007, 09:50 AM	#23
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by saintsmissile Young started X amount of games at Kent. The problem with that is IT WAS KENT! Kent State is D1A. Last year they played Minnesota and VaTech plus their MAC conference schedule. It's not the SEC, but we're not talking about Millsaps either. Originally Posted by saintsmissile How many NFL caliber wr's was he going against in both practice and games. At first glance, of the guys Young played against last year, these two were drafted: Ryne Robinson WR MIAMI (OHIO) 4 19(118) Carolina David Clowney WR VIRGINIA TECH 5 20(157) Green Bay

05-03-2007, 09:53 AM	#24
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Originally Posted by saintsmissile Jason David. I will go off the subject a tad here. Young and Jones have talent. That I'm sure of. However, much has been made that Young started X amount of games at Kent. The problem with that is IT WAS KENT! How many NFL caliber wr's was he going against in both practice and games. An example of this would be J.Wade from Tenn. Wade had almost identical measurables as Young and Jones. The big difference in my mind: competition. Wade went against Meachem, Dallas Baker from UF, Dwayne Bowe and Buster Davis from LSU, S.Rice from Arkansas, Courtney Taylor from Auburn etc. Does the MAC or whatever conference Young and Jones play in have anywhere NEAR this kind of talent? Doubt it. I'm not saying that either is not worthy of being picked, but my point here is that the jump to NFL caliber wr's is a big one. The fact that Wade etc have played against NFL caliber receiver's in college gives them a bit of advantage. Basically, the learning curve for small school cb's is a bit greater. You are correct. Just as hard as it is to make the transition to NFL for a WR, its just as hard if not harder for CBs. Where I think that Young especially and Jones as well have more potential thatn Jon Wade, I agree that the learning curve will be much more for them. In Wade's case, you also have to consider not only the guys he faced this season but in season's past. Its not unrealistic to say that a guy who has played 4 years for an SEC school could have possibly faced 10 NFL starters or regular contributers at wideout. Thus, I think if you are looking for someone who can come in on defense immediately and be able to contribute either in a partial/split time role or as a nickel back, you are better off drafting a big school player. However, we drafted our CBs this season based on potential and Young and Jones potential is much greater than Wades. No corner we drafted was cracking the starting lineup and probably not the nickel or even dime back cases either. They may get some spot duty here and there and will be expected to contribute on special teams. In the mean time, you will be grooming them and instead of them facing Bowe, and Rice and Davis in college practice, they will be facing Colston, MEachem, Patten. Also they will have the guidance of Frddy T, Craft, McKenzie which will also be big for them catching the learning curve. Thus, with some big school prospects, you can argue that because they played against so much good competition, that while they are battle tested and likely more NFL ready, you might never get any more out of them than you already have. These small school guys havent played against that type of competition so you dont know what the possibilities are. I would have rather selected Wade or Bennett or another corner from a strong conference with one of the CB picks that way we have a guy who is battle tested and played against the best in case we do need him to contribute a fair amount of defensive snaps during the season and one CB who is more of a project but whose upside is limitless. But it is what it is.

05-03-2007, 10:39 AM	#25
Saintuary 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 198	Originally Posted by hagan714 Eugene Lipscomb now now lets not put to much pressure on the kid. Not putting any pressure on the kid but he sure could be. Then I was kinda referring to their background being somewhat simular. I'm really pulling for this guy.

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05-03-2007, 09:39 AM	#22
mighty12 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 980 Blog Entries: 1	You can't use the "small School" "No Talent" excuse because many a great player have come from small JuCos it doesn't matter what college they went to, if they have the ability they have it, and the oppposite is true a good player from a powerhouse school fail more often because they were in a system with other players equal or better than they are. A corner from Tenn. is more likely to have been helped out by safties and good coaching than a corner from Kent who could have been the best defensive player on his team. We will just have to sit and watch and next year we can make our draft assessment. After last year's draft most people said "Well The got Reggie so it was a pretty good draft. The rest of the players were drafted just to allow for the Reggie Signing. None of them will start in '06. Well 5 of the 8 players draft started at least one game, ON THE NFC SOUTH CHAMPIONS!

05-03-2007, 10:54 AM	#26
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	If you have the speed,moves and the heart to compete the rest can be taught. These guys have the chance of a lifetime,it just depends on how much heart they have and how bad they want it.

05-03-2007, 07:34 PM	#27
NarwhalHunter 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hattiesburger with Cheese Posts: 146 Blog Entries: 1	You can make the case that big school prospects are just products of their 'system' as much as small school players were men among boys. I understand that the SEC is so tough that the '72 Dolphins would have gone 7-9 playing in there, but I know I watched Florida beat up on my alma mater Southern Miss, which is nowhere near a top flight school as far as talent goes. Big schools love to rack up huge numbers against creampuff schedules. Anyone can turn one stat to mean anything they want. It doesn't matter what school they played for, it's what they do when they hit the big time that really counts. I think Young is one of the best sleepers in the draft and might turn into a shutdown corner given the proper coaching. We have two starters in McKenzie and now David, along with Craft and Freddy T still in the mix to fight for the nickel and dime spots. We can afford to take a guy that needs a year or two of seasoning and who can transition into the lineup when McKenzie hits the downslope of his career. I'm pretty excited with this draft. We had the luxury to take the best players available without worrying about need, and when was the last time the Saints have ever been able to draft that way? Not many teams are going to be able to handle the offensive juggernaut we're building. Brees, Deuce, Reggie, Pittman, Colston, Henderson, Meachem, Johnson, and a very solid line that is just going to get better... need I go on? We gave them fits last year, next year we might get an honest to God forfeit.

05-03-2007, 07:59 PM	#28
D24pick 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 578	Well put post NH, you toke the words out of my mouth

05-04-2007, 07:14 AM	#29
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	we went into the draft with very little press. I like that. tight lipped. We did not come close to tipping our hand.