Out With the Old, in With the New: Raiders Coach Lane Kiffin Could Cut Warren Sapp

TheDeuce · 07-29-2007, 10:55 PM

I wasn't talking about criminal things when I was addressing his character issues. I was referring to his tendencies to need attention on himself and be outspoken when he doesn't like how things are being done, which just seems a little unnecessary considering the very good chemistry the team has going. And no, I don't remember him saying anything about Art Shell last season, but that doesn't mean he didn't. Besides, those guys on offense were talking so much that maybe Sapp felt like he didn't need to.

Nemesis · 07-30-2007, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by TheDeuce

I wasn't talking about criminal things when I was addressing his character issues. I was referring to his tendencies to need attention on himself and be outspoken when he doesn't like how things are being done, which just seems a little unnecessary considering the very good chemistry the team has going. And no, I don't remember him saying anything about Art Shell last season, but that doesn't mean he didn't. Besides, those guys on offense were talking so much that maybe Sapp felt like he didn't need to.

Ahhhhh So you mean you'd hate to have another Horn, but on D? You say you remember him saying anything about Shell, "But that doesn't mean he didnt." Doesn't mean he did, either. Right? Maybe Sapp felt he should be a leader, and keep his negative comments to himself?

TheDeuce · 07-30-2007, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Ahhhhh So you mean you'd hate to have another Horn, but on D? You say you remember him saying anything about Shell, "But that doesn't mean he didnt." Doesn't mean he did, either. Right? Maybe Sapp felt he should be a leader, and keep his negative comments to himself?

Yeah, actually I would prefer not to have another Joe Horn type player. Give me a Brian Urlacher type any day (as in a guy who keeps his mouth shut and cares more for the welfare of the team).

Nemesis · 07-30-2007, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by TheDeuce

Yeah, actually I would prefer not to have another Joe Horn type player. Give me a Brian Urlacher type any day (as in a guy who keeps his mouth shut and cares more for the welfare of the team).

We already have that in Simmons. He may not be going to the Hall, but he's a solid player, teammate, and citizen. Maybe not good enough in your eyes, but Payton likes him.

Joe Horn did the most to mentor the WRs, and was as much a part of the community as any other player. His contributions and efforts are well-documented. He was the only one to reach out to Ricky and AB, by visiting them at home.

TheDeuce · 07-30-2007, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Nemesis

We already have that in Simmons. He may not be going to the Hall, but he's a solid player, teammate, and citizen. Maybe not good enough in your eyes, but Payton likes him.

Joe Horn did the most to mentor the WRs, and was as much a part of the community as any other player. His contributions and efforts are well-documented. He was the only one to reach out to Ricky and AB, by visiting them at home.

Good enough in my eyes? What does that mean? Did I say anything about Brian Simmons? I'm confused about what you're getting at here.

And yes Joe did help mentor those guys, but he also f***ed Willie Roaf's wife and attracted a lot of attention over the years with his antics. I'm not saying that I didn't love Joe, because I did, but I think that Payton proved last year that getting high character guys works better than getting a bunch of self-centered players who might be a bit more talented.

Nemesis · 07-30-2007, 07:05 PM

Well, you wished for such a stand-up guy model teammate like Urlacher, when we have the same in Simmons playing MLB. I'll leave it at that.

Joe Horn swears he had nothing to do with Roaf's wife. I don't recall one departing player saying he did, either. I do know he had his own family, and can do better than his teammate's woman. Anyway, unless you were there, your conjecture is irrelevant.

The vast majority of fans felt differently about Horn's antics. You can pass on Steve Smith or Chad Johnson, too. That's your biz. I'd sign em in a heartbeat.

TheDeuce · 07-31-2007, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Well, you wished for such a stand-up guy model teammate like Urlacher, when we have the same in Simmons playing MLB. I'll leave it at that.

Joe Horn swears he had nothing to do with Roaf's wife. I don't recall one departing player saying he did, either. I do know he had his own family, and can do better than his teammate's woman. Anyway, unless you were there, your conjecture is irrelevant.

The vast majority of fans felt differently about Horn's antics. You can pass on Steve Smith or Chad Johnson, too. That's your biz. I'd sign em in a heartbeat.

Your argument makes no sense. Just because we have a high class guy like Brian Simmons, why does that mean we can't have another high character guy at DT? Can you only have a certain number of high character guys on a team? I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. Sure, we have a bunch of high character guys, like Brian Simmons for instance, but why does that mean I shouldn't want a good character guy at DT?

I understand what you're saying about Horn's antics, and I didn't have a problem with them as much as say, most members of the national media. But, if we're talking about a guy like Sapp (which this thread was supposed to be about in the first place), then there's a difference between him and Cinco Ocho and Steve Smith. Those guys produce, on a ridiculous level. He doesn't. If he was going to be able to produce Pro Bowl numbers, I wouldn't mind the antics as much (I'd still prefer not to see them as much). But he doesn't. It just seems to me like he would be a distraction. Maybe I'm wrong, I am just going off what I've seen in the past: a very vocal Warren Sapp who has no problem criticizing teammates or coaches.

07-29-2007, 10:55 PM	#1
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Re: Out With the Old, in With the New: Raiders Coach Lane Kiffin Could Cut Warren Sap I wasn't talking about criminal things when I was addressing his character issues. I was referring to his tendencies to need attention on himself and be outspoken when he doesn't like how things are being done, which just seems a little unnecessary considering the very good chemistry the team has going. And no, I don't remember him saying anything about Art Shell last season, but that doesn't mean he didn't. Besides, those guys on offense were talking so much that maybe Sapp felt like he didn't need to.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

07-30-2007, 02:02 AM	#2
Nemesis VIP~~Drunken Clam Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Quahog Posts: 422	Re: Out With the Old, in With the New: Raiders Coach Lane Kiffin Could Cut Warren Sap Originally Posted by TheDeuce I wasn't talking about criminal things when I was addressing his character issues. I was referring to his tendencies to need attention on himself and be outspoken when he doesn't like how things are being done, which just seems a little unnecessary considering the very good chemistry the team has going. And no, I don't remember him saying anything about Art Shell last season, but that doesn't mean he didn't. Besides, those guys on offense were talking so much that maybe Sapp felt like he didn't need to. Ahhhhh So you mean you'd hate to have another Horn, but on D? You say you remember him saying anything about Shell, "But that doesn't mean he didnt." Doesn't mean he did, either. Right? Maybe Sapp felt he should be a leader, and keep his negative comments to himself?
	Last edited by Nemesis; 07-30-2007 at 02:07 AM..

07-30-2007, 10:12 AM	#3
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Re: Out With the Old, in With the New: Raiders Coach Lane Kiffin Could Cut Warren Sap Originally Posted by Nemesis Ahhhhh So you mean you'd hate to have another Horn, but on D? You say you remember him saying anything about Shell, "But that doesn't mean he didnt." Doesn't mean he did, either. Right? Maybe Sapp felt he should be a leader, and keep his negative comments to himself? Yeah, actually I would prefer not to have another Joe Horn type player. Give me a Brian Urlacher type any day (as in a guy who keeps his mouth shut and cares more for the welfare of the team).
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

07-30-2007, 05:15 PM	#4
Nemesis VIP~~Drunken Clam Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Quahog Posts: 422	Re: Out With the Old, in With the New: Raiders Coach Lane Kiffin Could Cut Warren Sap Originally Posted by TheDeuce Yeah, actually I would prefer not to have another Joe Horn type player. Give me a Brian Urlacher type any day (as in a guy who keeps his mouth shut and cares more for the welfare of the team). We already have that in Simmons. He may not be going to the Hall, but he's a solid player, teammate, and citizen. Maybe not good enough in your eyes, but Payton likes him. Joe Horn did the most to mentor the WRs, and was as much a part of the community as any other player. His contributions and efforts are well-documented. He was the only one to reach out to Ricky and AB, by visiting them at home.
	Last edited by Nemesis; 07-30-2007 at 05:22 PM..

07-30-2007, 06:42 PM	#5
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Re: Out With the Old, in With the New: Raiders Coach Lane Kiffin Could Cut Warren Sap Originally Posted by Nemesis We already have that in Simmons. He may not be going to the Hall, but he's a solid player, teammate, and citizen. Maybe not good enough in your eyes, but Payton likes him. Joe Horn did the most to mentor the WRs, and was as much a part of the community as any other player. His contributions and efforts are well-documented. He was the only one to reach out to Ricky and AB, by visiting them at home. Good enough in my eyes? What does that mean? Did I say anything about Brian Simmons? I'm confused about what you're getting at here. And yes Joe did help mentor those guys, but he also f***ed Willie Roaf's wife and attracted a lot of attention over the years with his antics. I'm not saying that I didn't love Joe, because I did, but I think that Payton proved last year that getting high character guys works better than getting a bunch of self-centered players who might be a bit more talented.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

07-30-2007, 07:05 PM	#6
Nemesis VIP~~Drunken Clam Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Quahog Posts: 422	Re: Out With the Old, in With the New: Raiders Coach Lane Kiffin Could Cut Warren Sap Well, you wished for such a stand-up guy model teammate like Urlacher, when we have the same in Simmons playing MLB. I'll leave it at that. Joe Horn swears he had nothing to do with Roaf's wife. I don't recall one departing player saying he did, either. I do know he had his own family, and can do better than his teammate's woman. Anyway, unless you were there, your conjecture is irrelevant. The vast majority of fans felt differently about Horn's antics. You can pass on Steve Smith or Chad Johnson, too. That's your biz. I'd sign em in a heartbeat.
	Imitating my game is the most sincere form of flattery. Last edited by Nemesis; 07-30-2007 at 07:11 PM..

07-31-2007, 09:42 AM	#7
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Re: Out With the Old, in With the New: Raiders Coach Lane Kiffin Could Cut Warren Sap Originally Posted by Nemesis Well, you wished for such a stand-up guy model teammate like Urlacher, when we have the same in Simmons playing MLB. I'll leave it at that. Joe Horn swears he had nothing to do with Roaf's wife. I don't recall one departing player saying he did, either. I do know he had his own family, and can do better than his teammate's woman. Anyway, unless you were there, your conjecture is irrelevant. The vast majority of fans felt differently about Horn's antics. You can pass on Steve Smith or Chad Johnson, too. That's your biz. I'd sign em in a heartbeat. Your argument makes no sense. Just because we have a high class guy like Brian Simmons, why does that mean we can't have another high character guy at DT? Can you only have a certain number of high character guys on a team? I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. Sure, we have a bunch of high character guys, like Brian Simmons for instance, but why does that mean I shouldn't want a good character guy at DT? I understand what you're saying about Horn's antics, and I didn't have a problem with them as much as say, most members of the national media. But, if we're talking about a guy like Sapp (which this thread was supposed to be about in the first place), then there's a difference between him and Cinco Ocho and Steve Smith. Those guys produce, on a ridiculous level. He doesn't. If he was going to be able to produce Pro Bowl numbers, I wouldn't mind the antics as much (I'd still prefer not to see them as much). But he doesn't. It just seems to me like he would be a distraction. Maybe I'm wrong, I am just going off what I've seen in the past: a very vocal Warren Sapp who has no problem criticizing teammates or coaches.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928