Out With the Old, in With the New: Raiders Coach Lane Kiffin Could Cut Warren Sapp

saintsrule · 07-30-2007, 03:37 PM

I could careless about their charater. No one is perfect. I just want good players on the team. If I were perfect I could want everyone else to be. I hope the Saints would and could get both of them.

Nemesis · 07-30-2007, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by TheDeuce

Yeah, actually I would prefer not to have another Joe Horn type player. Give me a Brian Urlacher type any day (as in a guy who keeps his mouth shut and cares more for the welfare of the team).

We already have that in Simmons. He may not be going to the Hall, but he's a solid player, teammate, and citizen. Maybe not good enough in your eyes, but Payton likes him.

Joe Horn did the most to mentor the WRs, and was as much a part of the community as any other player. His contributions and efforts are well-documented. He was the only one to reach out to Ricky and AB, by visiting them at home.

TheDeuce · 07-30-2007, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Nemesis

We already have that in Simmons. He may not be going to the Hall, but he's a solid player, teammate, and citizen. Maybe not good enough in your eyes, but Payton likes him.

Joe Horn did the most to mentor the WRs, and was as much a part of the community as any other player. His contributions and efforts are well-documented. He was the only one to reach out to Ricky and AB, by visiting them at home.

Good enough in my eyes? What does that mean? Did I say anything about Brian Simmons? I'm confused about what you're getting at here.

And yes Joe did help mentor those guys, but he also f***ed Willie Roaf's wife and attracted a lot of attention over the years with his antics. I'm not saying that I didn't love Joe, because I did, but I think that Payton proved last year that getting high character guys works better than getting a bunch of self-centered players who might be a bit more talented.

Nemesis · 07-30-2007, 08:05 PM

Well, you wished for such a stand-up guy model teammate like Urlacher, when we have the same in Simmons playing MLB. I'll leave it at that.

Joe Horn swears he had nothing to do with Roaf's wife. I don't recall one departing player saying he did, either. I do know he had his own family, and can do better than his teammate's woman. Anyway, unless you were there, your conjecture is irrelevant.

The vast majority of fans felt differently about Horn's antics. You can pass on Steve Smith or Chad Johnson, too. That's your biz. I'd sign em in a heartbeat.

TheDeuce · 07-31-2007, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Well, you wished for such a stand-up guy model teammate like Urlacher, when we have the same in Simmons playing MLB. I'll leave it at that.

Joe Horn swears he had nothing to do with Roaf's wife. I don't recall one departing player saying he did, either. I do know he had his own family, and can do better than his teammate's woman. Anyway, unless you were there, your conjecture is irrelevant.

The vast majority of fans felt differently about Horn's antics. You can pass on Steve Smith or Chad Johnson, too. That's your biz. I'd sign em in a heartbeat.

Your argument makes no sense. Just because we have a high class guy like Brian Simmons, why does that mean we can't have another high character guy at DT? Can you only have a certain number of high character guys on a team? I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. Sure, we have a bunch of high character guys, like Brian Simmons for instance, but why does that mean I shouldn't want a good character guy at DT?

I understand what you're saying about Horn's antics, and I didn't have a problem with them as much as say, most members of the national media. But, if we're talking about a guy like Sapp (which this thread was supposed to be about in the first place), then there's a difference between him and Cinco Ocho and Steve Smith. Those guys produce, on a ridiculous level. He doesn't. If he was going to be able to produce Pro Bowl numbers, I wouldn't mind the antics as much (I'd still prefer not to see them as much). But he doesn't. It just seems to me like he would be a distraction. Maybe I'm wrong, I am just going off what I've seen in the past: a very vocal Warren Sapp who has no problem criticizing teammates or coaches.

blacksaint · 08-02-2007, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by TheDeuce

Your argument makes no sense. Just because we have a high class guy like Brian Simmons, why does that mean we can't have another high character guy at DT? Can you only have a certain number of high character guys on a team? I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. Sure, we have a bunch of high character guys, like Brian Simmons for instance, but why does that mean I shouldn't want a good character guy at DT?

I understand what you're saying about Horn's antics, and I didn't have a problem with them as much as say, most members of the national media. But, if we're talking about a guy like Sapp (which this thread was supposed to be about in the first place), then there's a difference between him and Cinco Ocho and Steve Smith. Those guys produce, on a ridiculous level. He doesn't. If he was going to be able to produce Pro Bowl numbers, I wouldn't mind the antics as much (I'd still prefer not to see them as much). But he doesn't. It just seems to me like he would be a distraction. Maybe I'm wrong, I am just going off what I've seen in the past: a very vocal Warren Sapp who has no problem criticizing teammates or coaches.

Warren Sapp's career stats.

Year Team Tackles Sacks FF Int Yds TD
1995 TB 26.0 3 1 1 5 1
1996 TB 51.0 9 1 0 0 0
1997 TB 58.0 10.5 2 0 0 0
1998 TB 44.0 7 2 0 0 0
1999 TB 41.0 12.5 4 0 0 0
2000 TB 52.0 16.5 1 0 0 0
2001 TB 36.0 6 1 0 0 0
2002 TB 47.0 7.5 1 2 0 0
2003 TB 43.0 5 2 0 0 0
2004 Oak 42.0 2.5 0 0 0 0
2005 Oak 32.0 5 1 1 3 0
2006 Oak 47.0 10 1 0 0 0
Total 519.0 94.5 17 4 8 1

"If those are not probowl numbers, I don't know what is."

07-30-2007, 03:37 PM	#11
saintsrule 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 657	Re: Out With the Old, in With the New: Raiders Coach Lane Kiffin Could Cut Warren Sap I could careless about their charater. No one is perfect. I just want good players on the team. If I were perfect I could want everyone else to be. I hope the Saints would and could get both of them.
saintsrule 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 657

07-30-2007, 06:15 PM	#12
Nemesis VIP~~Drunken Clam Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Quahog Posts: 422	Re: Out With the Old, in With the New: Raiders Coach Lane Kiffin Could Cut Warren Sap Originally Posted by TheDeuce Yeah, actually I would prefer not to have another Joe Horn type player. Give me a Brian Urlacher type any day (as in a guy who keeps his mouth shut and cares more for the welfare of the team). We already have that in Simmons. He may not be going to the Hall, but he's a solid player, teammate, and citizen. Maybe not good enough in your eyes, but Payton likes him. Joe Horn did the most to mentor the WRs, and was as much a part of the community as any other player. His contributions and efforts are well-documented. He was the only one to reach out to Ricky and AB, by visiting them at home.
	Last edited by Nemesis; 07-30-2007 at 06:22 PM..

07-30-2007, 07:42 PM	#13
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Re: Out With the Old, in With the New: Raiders Coach Lane Kiffin Could Cut Warren Sap Originally Posted by Nemesis We already have that in Simmons. He may not be going to the Hall, but he's a solid player, teammate, and citizen. Maybe not good enough in your eyes, but Payton likes him. Joe Horn did the most to mentor the WRs, and was as much a part of the community as any other player. His contributions and efforts are well-documented. He was the only one to reach out to Ricky and AB, by visiting them at home. Good enough in my eyes? What does that mean? Did I say anything about Brian Simmons? I'm confused about what you're getting at here. And yes Joe did help mentor those guys, but he also f***ed Willie Roaf's wife and attracted a lot of attention over the years with his antics. I'm not saying that I didn't love Joe, because I did, but I think that Payton proved last year that getting high character guys works better than getting a bunch of self-centered players who might be a bit more talented.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

07-30-2007, 08:05 PM	#14
Nemesis VIP~~Drunken Clam Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Quahog Posts: 422	Re: Out With the Old, in With the New: Raiders Coach Lane Kiffin Could Cut Warren Sap Well, you wished for such a stand-up guy model teammate like Urlacher, when we have the same in Simmons playing MLB. I'll leave it at that. Joe Horn swears he had nothing to do with Roaf's wife. I don't recall one departing player saying he did, either. I do know he had his own family, and can do better than his teammate's woman. Anyway, unless you were there, your conjecture is irrelevant. The vast majority of fans felt differently about Horn's antics. You can pass on Steve Smith or Chad Johnson, too. That's your biz. I'd sign em in a heartbeat.
	Imitating my game is the most sincere form of flattery. Last edited by Nemesis; 07-30-2007 at 08:11 PM..

07-31-2007, 10:42 AM	#15
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Re: Out With the Old, in With the New: Raiders Coach Lane Kiffin Could Cut Warren Sap Originally Posted by Nemesis Well, you wished for such a stand-up guy model teammate like Urlacher, when we have the same in Simmons playing MLB. I'll leave it at that. Joe Horn swears he had nothing to do with Roaf's wife. I don't recall one departing player saying he did, either. I do know he had his own family, and can do better than his teammate's woman. Anyway, unless you were there, your conjecture is irrelevant. The vast majority of fans felt differently about Horn's antics. You can pass on Steve Smith or Chad Johnson, too. That's your biz. I'd sign em in a heartbeat. Your argument makes no sense. Just because we have a high class guy like Brian Simmons, why does that mean we can't have another high character guy at DT? Can you only have a certain number of high character guys on a team? I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. Sure, we have a bunch of high character guys, like Brian Simmons for instance, but why does that mean I shouldn't want a good character guy at DT? I understand what you're saying about Horn's antics, and I didn't have a problem with them as much as say, most members of the national media. But, if we're talking about a guy like Sapp (which this thread was supposed to be about in the first place), then there's a difference between him and Cinco Ocho and Steve Smith. Those guys produce, on a ridiculous level. He doesn't. If he was going to be able to produce Pro Bowl numbers, I wouldn't mind the antics as much (I'd still prefer not to see them as much). But he doesn't. It just seems to me like he would be a distraction. Maybe I'm wrong, I am just going off what I've seen in the past: a very vocal Warren Sapp who has no problem criticizing teammates or coaches.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

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08-02-2007, 03:28 AM	#16
blacksaint DARE TO ENTER Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Home Sweet Home, NEW ORLEANS, La. Posts: 1,154	Re: Out With the Old, in With the New: Raiders Coach Lane Kiffin Could Cut Warren Sap Originally Posted by TheDeuce Your argument makes no sense. Just because we have a high class guy like Brian Simmons, why does that mean we can't have another high character guy at DT? Can you only have a certain number of high character guys on a team? I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. Sure, we have a bunch of high character guys, like Brian Simmons for instance, but why does that mean I shouldn't want a good character guy at DT? I understand what you're saying about Horn's antics, and I didn't have a problem with them as much as say, most members of the national media. But, if we're talking about a guy like Sapp (which this thread was supposed to be about in the first place), then there's a difference between him and Cinco Ocho and Steve Smith. Those guys produce, on a ridiculous level. He doesn't. If he was going to be able to produce Pro Bowl numbers, I wouldn't mind the antics as much (I'd still prefer not to see them as much). But he doesn't. It just seems to me like he would be a distraction. Maybe I'm wrong, I am just going off what I've seen in the past: a very vocal Warren Sapp who has no problem criticizing teammates or coaches. Warren Sapp's career stats. Year Team Tackles Sacks FF Int Yds TD 1995 TB 26.0 3 1 1 5 1 1996 TB 51.0 9 1 0 0 0 1997 TB 58.0 10.5 2 0 0 0 1998 TB 44.0 7 2 0 0 0 1999 TB 41.0 12.5 4 0 0 0 2000 TB 52.0 16.5 1 0 0 0 2001 TB 36.0 6 1 0 0 0 2002 TB 47.0 7.5 1 2 0 0 2003 TB 43.0 5 2 0 0 0 2004 Oak 42.0 2.5 0 0 0 0 2005 Oak 32.0 5 1 1 3 0 2006 Oak 47.0 10 1 0 0 0 Total 519.0 94.5 17 4 8 1 "If those are not probowl numbers, I don't know what is."
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